6.28.17 Adam News and Info, Day Off, Next Stop San Jose
Jun 28, 2017 10:59:13 GMT -5
Post by talon on Jun 28, 2017 10:59:13 GMT -5
col -
Thank you! I certainly still will enjoy the gigs. I appreciate the thoughts on Adam as well.
cassie -
It might very well be a gender thing. I will say though I wanted to post an interview from Freddie that I think will show you a side of Freddie that might be more in line with what you feel on Adam. He's playful in this interview though there is definitely still a bit of a harder edge...of course it's a different time back then:
yum might like this to as Freddie is in a nice form (even if he wasn't fond of the press at this point):
Regardless, I wanted to say that after I wrote my piece and read a few things I had another long piece to write. Something of an aha! moment. Of course I sat back and wondered how to write it without ruffling too many feathers and I think I have it...Even more so because one piece of the discussion is to show how I actually have been in the Adam fan's shoes and can empathize...in a very rare and unique perspective. The first part will be the possibly sensitive part. You may want to skip to the section below the ***********s As that will give you more context to where I am coming from and how I can be on both sides of the fence.
What I want to say in our discussions here it's been generally Adam vs Freddie as far as what we like, don't like, why we would as fans choose one over the other.
BUT that's only one part of the argument. I think I finally realized the problem some Queen fans have. And it has little to do with Adam, but more the zealousness of Adam fans. Adam's fan base is POWERFUL. No doubt. They are committed to him like no other and that is worthy of respect. But I was trying to see if I could dig in and see what some of the issues might be. And I read sometimes about how there is a significant portion of Adam fans who never knew Queen before Adam...TO them Queen is QAL. Not their fault, I can't blame them for that. There are plenty of things I never experienced, etc. (and again some of this will make sense post ***).
Now I've also seen some posts here trying to figure out and they posit that perhaps Queen fans are worried about Adam being so good that Freddie is in some way threatened. I don't think that's it.
I think it more has to do with the legacy of Queen itself.
Now whether this is true or not or whether this is perception - I could honestly see it either way, but there is a significant portion of the fan base that comes off as Adam's contribution to Queen's legacy at the end of the day is much higher than it actually is which can offend some Queen fans. I'm not trying to dismiss Adam from the legacy. He's there now. He has a definite slot in it. But if you can try and sit back and take things from afar you might get a different view point. It almost comes across that Freddie's Queen is like 60% of the legacy or even 50-50. Queen with Freddie and Queen post Freddie...or whatever. But let's fast forward 30 years. I'm in a rocking chair, Brian and Roger have most likely joined Freddie - (MAYBE NOT!). We look back at Queen's legacy if say this were the last tour they did.
To be honest, to assign percentages to the importance behind Queen's legacy. Queen (1971-1991) is 90% of the legacy. Queen (1992-2004) is 5% given the Freddie Tribute Concert, the final Freddie album, and No-One But You the last true Queen song. Then it's up to Paul and Adam for the last 5%. Seem low? I can understand why it seems so low because to you (those who are much more Adam fans) this era is THE most important to you.
Quick Adam vs Paul (and the differences in how the fanbase perceive it) points if you care - or you can skip to the next part:
The argument between Paul and Adam.. as to who gets 3 and who gets 2 are as follows quickly. Adam is by far the final frontman so the last concerts in mind will have Adam in front, AND he definitely FITS the band far better than Paul did. Paul's pros are - HE finally got the band touring again. Without Paul Queen might never have gotten off the bench and never got to tour with Adam...AND more importantly they did an album together. WHether it was good or bad is not relevant....there is an entry place on the shelf for a Queen + PR album. Now if QAL do an album I say Adam definitely outweighs....Now why did Paul get more of a pass? Paul's fanbase and Queen's fanbase often overlapped so it was easier to accept. Paul had his own legacy to be involved with that it never felt his fans needed Paul to be a big part of Queen's legacy...whereas Adam who doesn't quite have that same legacy and background may be looked at trying to latch onto Queen's legacy - maybe? I don't know on that one). BUT I digress back to the original point.
Is that harsh? See I don't think it is. I know I wouldn't mean for it to be. To have even 3% of legacy of a band that legendary is amazing and worth being excited over. But I don't know how some Adam fans would take that and I feel some would be extremely offended by that.
But if you seriously look back. Queen will be remembered for what happened during Freddie's time. Everything after will be mostly a blip....even if it is your favorite blip. All the albums, initial songs, initial tourings etc. They all happened awhile ago. The band was hungry and wanted to take over the world and did. Now at this point it is a different band and maybe that's what cassie and others see with B&R now. B&R might be enjoying themselves more now partially because of Adam but at least equally as important? They don't NEED it as much. They aren't as hungry. They know they've done all they are going to do. They know they aren't going to light up the charts again, they aren't going to be breaking new ground (besides maybe visiting a country they never did). But they don't have the same ambition. They can rest and relax and just play music comfortable in their legacy, their surroundings, etc. It's the fun time they've earned.
They aren't in legacy defining moments anymore. Their legacy is already established and unless something monumental happens, nothing QAL does will shift it either direction. This is more about keeping the music alive...and do not doubt I believe that's a worthy goal to have.
So when the Adam fans who are very vocal about their love for Adam and how good he is and of course how he's better than Freddie (to them) it almost seems that *TO SOME QUEEN FANS* arrogantly they are saying that Adam's importance to the Queen legacy is as important or even close to importance than Freddie's.
I'm not saying that's how you feel - I'm saying that's how it can come off and is interpreted at times. And while I'd say that it's no-one's fault it can open up a divide.
I will also fully admit though that the Queen fan's should just feel comfortable with Freddie's legacy - it ain't going anywhere - Nothing Adam does with Queen will ever interfere with it. They really do not and should not feel the need to verbally bitchslap Adam or his fanbase due to some overzealousness. I will never do so. Even as I critique or try to point out where some people can err, I will always try to respect the differing opinions.
NOW
***********************
How can Talon being from the other side of the equation here possibly understand/empathize with what the Glamberts are feeling.
Two words. Van Halen.
Everyone here knows that Queen is my absolute all time fav and Freddie is by far my fav vocalist. My second favorite I've mentioned before is Extreme and their frontman Gary Cherone. You might remember him from Extreme's classic "More Than Words" and the followup "Hole Hearted" but they never reached chart heights again.
Now let's see if this sounds familiar.
Band with classic status, breaks up. Second singer comes in, is divisive with original fans but maybe tours a bit and wins some over.
Band splits again. Third singer comes in and both the fans of the first singer only and fans of the second singer turn against the new guy and lambaste him time and again so it seems he never gets a full chance despite what the famous guitarist says about him.
Van Halen's classic lineup with David Lee Roth went until 1984 until he left. Sammy Hagar joined (and unlike Paul Rodgers) he developed to be as important - as many albums and tours. But some VH fans were David or nothing. When Sammy left there was a tease to return to David but instead they went with a third lead singer...Gary Cherone.
Now Gary had insurmountable odds. Both David fans and Sammy fans hated it...and were against it from the start. What? Pussy boy Gary Cherone who had the wimp hit More Than Words. Even worse, Gary was from the school of Freddie Mercury - a camp lead vocalist who performed sometimes less than Macho...especially less macho than the Male Rock, Girl worshipping Van Halen types. I heard everything. Gary's a fag, a gay Freddie wannabe who has no place in Van Halen.
Now Gary did one album with VH and a tour. Many didn't buy it, many didn't go despite Eddie Van Halen calling Gary a musical brother...saying he looked more like Alex Van Halen than Eddie did. Called him a musical soulmate who wrote a song together 45 minutes after meeting. Eddie praised him as a gift from god...hmmm....
On tour the band for the first time did songs from BOTH eras of VH, which did appeal to some of the hardcore fans, but Gary never really won them over and after the tour, and after pressure from the record company, Gary left VH.
Now I knew VH before Gary. I was somewhat of a fan. I had seen the with Sammy and I knew the history with Dave. But by far my fav VH era is VH III - I saw that tour and while the album is flawed it is one of my fav VH albums. BUT I know that in the VH legacy? Gary is a footnote. He isnt in the Hall of Fame with Van Halen like David and Sammy - although bless bassist MIchael Anthony's heart, MIchael did thank him in the induction speech for Gary's contribution. But while I love David's swagger and I appreciate Sammy's attitude and vocals, Gary will always be MY favorite VH even though his contribution to VH's legacy is about 5% if that.
SO I *CAN* empathize. I *DO* understand. I am a rare person that can see both sides of the equation. I wrote this whole thing up not to attack Adam or his fans...but as a way to once again try to show where some of the divide can be between the fanbases.
So sorry if this was extremely long but I think figuring this out shows me where some of the sticking points can be....and if I know that, I can do a small part in trying to bridge those gaps on both sides...since I'm a fan of Queen, QPR, and QAL. Just as I'm a fan of Freddie, Paul, and Adam.
Thank you! I certainly still will enjoy the gigs. I appreciate the thoughts on Adam as well.
cassie -
It might very well be a gender thing. I will say though I wanted to post an interview from Freddie that I think will show you a side of Freddie that might be more in line with what you feel on Adam. He's playful in this interview though there is definitely still a bit of a harder edge...of course it's a different time back then:
yum might like this to as Freddie is in a nice form (even if he wasn't fond of the press at this point):
Regardless, I wanted to say that after I wrote my piece and read a few things I had another long piece to write. Something of an aha! moment. Of course I sat back and wondered how to write it without ruffling too many feathers and I think I have it...Even more so because one piece of the discussion is to show how I actually have been in the Adam fan's shoes and can empathize...in a very rare and unique perspective. The first part will be the possibly sensitive part. You may want to skip to the section below the ***********s As that will give you more context to where I am coming from and how I can be on both sides of the fence.
What I want to say in our discussions here it's been generally Adam vs Freddie as far as what we like, don't like, why we would as fans choose one over the other.
BUT that's only one part of the argument. I think I finally realized the problem some Queen fans have. And it has little to do with Adam, but more the zealousness of Adam fans. Adam's fan base is POWERFUL. No doubt. They are committed to him like no other and that is worthy of respect. But I was trying to see if I could dig in and see what some of the issues might be. And I read sometimes about how there is a significant portion of Adam fans who never knew Queen before Adam...TO them Queen is QAL. Not their fault, I can't blame them for that. There are plenty of things I never experienced, etc. (and again some of this will make sense post ***).
Now I've also seen some posts here trying to figure out and they posit that perhaps Queen fans are worried about Adam being so good that Freddie is in some way threatened. I don't think that's it.
I think it more has to do with the legacy of Queen itself.
Now whether this is true or not or whether this is perception - I could honestly see it either way, but there is a significant portion of the fan base that comes off as Adam's contribution to Queen's legacy at the end of the day is much higher than it actually is which can offend some Queen fans. I'm not trying to dismiss Adam from the legacy. He's there now. He has a definite slot in it. But if you can try and sit back and take things from afar you might get a different view point. It almost comes across that Freddie's Queen is like 60% of the legacy or even 50-50. Queen with Freddie and Queen post Freddie...or whatever. But let's fast forward 30 years. I'm in a rocking chair, Brian and Roger have most likely joined Freddie - (MAYBE NOT!). We look back at Queen's legacy if say this were the last tour they did.
To be honest, to assign percentages to the importance behind Queen's legacy. Queen (1971-1991) is 90% of the legacy. Queen (1992-2004) is 5% given the Freddie Tribute Concert, the final Freddie album, and No-One But You the last true Queen song. Then it's up to Paul and Adam for the last 5%. Seem low? I can understand why it seems so low because to you (those who are much more Adam fans) this era is THE most important to you.
Quick Adam vs Paul (and the differences in how the fanbase perceive it) points if you care - or you can skip to the next part:
The argument between Paul and Adam.. as to who gets 3 and who gets 2 are as follows quickly. Adam is by far the final frontman so the last concerts in mind will have Adam in front, AND he definitely FITS the band far better than Paul did. Paul's pros are - HE finally got the band touring again. Without Paul Queen might never have gotten off the bench and never got to tour with Adam...AND more importantly they did an album together. WHether it was good or bad is not relevant....there is an entry place on the shelf for a Queen + PR album. Now if QAL do an album I say Adam definitely outweighs....Now why did Paul get more of a pass? Paul's fanbase and Queen's fanbase often overlapped so it was easier to accept. Paul had his own legacy to be involved with that it never felt his fans needed Paul to be a big part of Queen's legacy...whereas Adam who doesn't quite have that same legacy and background may be looked at trying to latch onto Queen's legacy - maybe? I don't know on that one). BUT I digress back to the original point.
Is that harsh? See I don't think it is. I know I wouldn't mean for it to be. To have even 3% of legacy of a band that legendary is amazing and worth being excited over. But I don't know how some Adam fans would take that and I feel some would be extremely offended by that.
But if you seriously look back. Queen will be remembered for what happened during Freddie's time. Everything after will be mostly a blip....even if it is your favorite blip. All the albums, initial songs, initial tourings etc. They all happened awhile ago. The band was hungry and wanted to take over the world and did. Now at this point it is a different band and maybe that's what cassie and others see with B&R now. B&R might be enjoying themselves more now partially because of Adam but at least equally as important? They don't NEED it as much. They aren't as hungry. They know they've done all they are going to do. They know they aren't going to light up the charts again, they aren't going to be breaking new ground (besides maybe visiting a country they never did). But they don't have the same ambition. They can rest and relax and just play music comfortable in their legacy, their surroundings, etc. It's the fun time they've earned.
They aren't in legacy defining moments anymore. Their legacy is already established and unless something monumental happens, nothing QAL does will shift it either direction. This is more about keeping the music alive...and do not doubt I believe that's a worthy goal to have.
So when the Adam fans who are very vocal about their love for Adam and how good he is and of course how he's better than Freddie (to them) it almost seems that *TO SOME QUEEN FANS* arrogantly they are saying that Adam's importance to the Queen legacy is as important or even close to importance than Freddie's.
I'm not saying that's how you feel - I'm saying that's how it can come off and is interpreted at times. And while I'd say that it's no-one's fault it can open up a divide.
I will also fully admit though that the Queen fan's should just feel comfortable with Freddie's legacy - it ain't going anywhere - Nothing Adam does with Queen will ever interfere with it. They really do not and should not feel the need to verbally bitchslap Adam or his fanbase due to some overzealousness. I will never do so. Even as I critique or try to point out where some people can err, I will always try to respect the differing opinions.
NOW
***********************
How can Talon being from the other side of the equation here possibly understand/empathize with what the Glamberts are feeling.
Two words. Van Halen.
Everyone here knows that Queen is my absolute all time fav and Freddie is by far my fav vocalist. My second favorite I've mentioned before is Extreme and their frontman Gary Cherone. You might remember him from Extreme's classic "More Than Words" and the followup "Hole Hearted" but they never reached chart heights again.
Now let's see if this sounds familiar.
Band with classic status, breaks up. Second singer comes in, is divisive with original fans but maybe tours a bit and wins some over.
Band splits again. Third singer comes in and both the fans of the first singer only and fans of the second singer turn against the new guy and lambaste him time and again so it seems he never gets a full chance despite what the famous guitarist says about him.
Van Halen's classic lineup with David Lee Roth went until 1984 until he left. Sammy Hagar joined (and unlike Paul Rodgers) he developed to be as important - as many albums and tours. But some VH fans were David or nothing. When Sammy left there was a tease to return to David but instead they went with a third lead singer...Gary Cherone.
Now Gary had insurmountable odds. Both David fans and Sammy fans hated it...and were against it from the start. What? Pussy boy Gary Cherone who had the wimp hit More Than Words. Even worse, Gary was from the school of Freddie Mercury - a camp lead vocalist who performed sometimes less than Macho...especially less macho than the Male Rock, Girl worshipping Van Halen types. I heard everything. Gary's a fag, a gay Freddie wannabe who has no place in Van Halen.
Now Gary did one album with VH and a tour. Many didn't buy it, many didn't go despite Eddie Van Halen calling Gary a musical brother...saying he looked more like Alex Van Halen than Eddie did. Called him a musical soulmate who wrote a song together 45 minutes after meeting. Eddie praised him as a gift from god...hmmm....
On tour the band for the first time did songs from BOTH eras of VH, which did appeal to some of the hardcore fans, but Gary never really won them over and after the tour, and after pressure from the record company, Gary left VH.
Now I knew VH before Gary. I was somewhat of a fan. I had seen the with Sammy and I knew the history with Dave. But by far my fav VH era is VH III - I saw that tour and while the album is flawed it is one of my fav VH albums. BUT I know that in the VH legacy? Gary is a footnote. He isnt in the Hall of Fame with Van Halen like David and Sammy - although bless bassist MIchael Anthony's heart, MIchael did thank him in the induction speech for Gary's contribution. But while I love David's swagger and I appreciate Sammy's attitude and vocals, Gary will always be MY favorite VH even though his contribution to VH's legacy is about 5% if that.
SO I *CAN* empathize. I *DO* understand. I am a rare person that can see both sides of the equation. I wrote this whole thing up not to attack Adam or his fans...but as a way to once again try to show where some of the divide can be between the fanbases.
So sorry if this was extremely long but I think figuring this out shows me where some of the sticking points can be....and if I know that, I can do a small part in trying to bridge those gaps on both sides...since I'm a fan of Queen, QPR, and QAL. Just as I'm a fan of Freddie, Paul, and Adam.