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Post by cassie on Dec 17, 2012 23:55:31 GMT -5
It's been a provocative thread today. I think, given the volativity of the subject, peeps have been respectful in the main. I applaud folks for their sincere attempts to have a civilized conversation.
Some of you may know that I am a certified sign language interpreter and have taught interpreting for many years. One of the biggest challenges for students is to separate out function/intent from form. To let go of the specific word, and preserve the intended meaning. For example, if you look up the English word "stubborn" in a sign language dictionary, there is one sign. But, the dictionary does not tell you that the sign can have either a positive or negative connotation. When used to describe the security guard who absolutely refuses to bend the rules and let you take a bottle of water into the hot venue, it is negative. When the same sign is used to describe a Glambert's relentless efforts to get Adam's album ranked #1 for the year, it is positive. In the first example, you could substitute the word "pig-headed" to translate the sign. In the latter example, you could use "passionately determined". Same sign, two very different intents. As an interpreter, we MUST put INTENT before the literal word.
So, if I were interpreting Adam's tweet, I would choose the signs for "bold" and "awesome", not the sign for the female anatomy. It would not be considered as softening or editing the tweet; it would be providing the equivalent semantic intent. A good interpreter must be aware of the various cultures and norms she works in in order to be effective. (There is a sign which, in informal, casual or intimate settings means "Fuck this shit!" However, in a formal register it is used to mean "I am disassociating/disaffiliating myself from that person/situation." Can you imagine the fiasco if the interpreter did not consider the formality of the setting and the intent of the speaker before choosing what words to use?)
So, while I, personally consider the word "cunt" as one of the most offensive in the English language, as an interpreter I must set aside my personal responses to the WORD, and interpret the intent.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 23:55:36 GMT -5
What can i say....I am a product of my times...ardent 2nd wave feminist and communication scholar. It is my shtick ... but don't want to get pedantic here... I just hate to see the stonings and banishments that occur here regularly...
I think we really all need to be a little more tolerant here if we want to deserve the kudo's we regularly give the community for being so caring and kind.Yes to this. There is a fine line between exchanging ideas and nudging people into lurkdom or worse. Skylar, I really respect that you have put yourself out there on this topic. I'm sort of in the middle: I can clearly see that language changes, but I'm also not in the habit of using a lot of words I read on Atop regularly. However, it has increased my acceptance of them. I was raised thinking that people who used "vulgar" language just weren't educated enough to know some better word choices. Then I met really smart people who cursed a blue streak. So much for my upbringing. :D For me, the objection to the term c**t has nothing whatsoever to do with vulgarity and is entirely based on an objection to misogyny. I agree that Adam does not intend it to be misogynistic, however it's not that simple for me. Intent is not everything, words have historical meaning and effect that I cannot ignore. IMHO, casual use of the term c**t harms women whether intended or not. I feel the same way about bitch, fishy, fag hag, fruit fly. I know this is not a popular opinion here at all, but that's OK. I'm a feminist, not a pearl clutcher (hate that term). I also think it's OK not to love absolutely everything Adam does or says. |
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Post by wal on Dec 17, 2012 23:57:15 GMT -5
Lee Cherry @leecherry Coming in 2013: "Sutan's Everything".Get into it. @scarlettcherry @katgraham @sutanamrull @tommyjoeratliff Blake & Jasmina.  Retweeted by Adam Lambert |
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Post by cheriemelissa on Dec 17, 2012 23:58:24 GMT -5
 Yes, I did say that twice and he did not delete the tweet (Thank God he did not see the traitorous posts of this here self-righteous, hystrionic, insane beeeeooch! Phew). Someone here has to be realistic. I've changed my mind. I think you all are right. So, my dear cunt and all other cunts here who stand for fluid word definitions I've decided to adopt it for daily use. But you mys*&@^#r50 were the strongest fighter for the cause. So, you are like the first mate cunt of them all. Thank you for liberating me. It really is very empowering. Oh, and I mean that in the most beautiful and empowering way... Off to running y'all. Don't be cunty while I'm gone! PS. I fully expect this will be deleted.  [/quote |
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crispy
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Post by crispy on Dec 17, 2012 23:59:07 GMT -5
I am not tossing you out. YOU said you can't be a fan! You said it in 2 different posts. I am being realistic here. He will use the word again. Maybe even many times, I am sure. If you feel this strongly how are you going to deal with it the next time he uses it? :-/ Yes, I did say that twice and he did not delete the tweet (Thank God he did not see the traitorous posts of this here self-righteous, hystrionic, insane beeeeooch! Phew). Someone here has to be realistic. I've changed my mind. I think you all are right. So, my dear cunt and all other cunts here who stand for fluid word definitions I've decided to adopt it for daily use. But you mys*&@^#r50 were the strongest fighter for the cause. So, you are like the first mate cunt of them all. Thank you for liberating me. It really is very empowering. Oh, and I mean that in the most beautiful and empowering way... Off to running y'all. Don't be cunty while I'm gone! PS. I fully expect this will be deleted. This is pretty fucking hilarious, skylar! And while I assume you are joking, you told a pretty powerful story about how much the word hurts you and I wonder if using it this way helps take some of its power to hurt away? Just like Adam calling himself a fag takes the power away from those who mean it in a derogatory way. And on a completely different topic: I thought one of the funniest moments of the whole Diva show was when Nene Leaks called Neil "Coldplay!" |
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Post by wal on Dec 18, 2012 0:00:23 GMT -5
Adam Lambert @adamlambert
Had to watch the show from last night. So proud except literally just sat here a LAUGHED at my own lame ass on Ray Of Light. #wtfwasithinkin
Lÿndsey Parker @lyndseyparker
@adamlambert I actually liked it, don't be so hard on yourself. But I still think you should have done "Burnin' Up"...
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Post by DancyGeorgia on Dec 18, 2012 0:03:04 GMT -5
What can i say....I am a product of my times...ardent 2nd wave feminist and communication scholar. It is my shtick ... but don't want to get pedantic here... I just hate to see the stonings and banishments that occur here regularly...
I think we really all need to be a little more tolerant here if we want to deserve the kudo's we regularly give the community for being so caring and kind.Yes to this. There is a fine line between exchanging ideas and nudging people into lurkdom or worse. Skylar, I really respect that you have put yourself out there on this topic. I'm sort of in the middle: I can clearly see that language changes, but I'm also not in the habit of using a lot of words I read on Atop regularly. However, it has increased my acceptance of them. I was raised thinking that people who used "vulgar" language just weren't educated enough to know some better word choices. Then I met really smart people who cursed a blue streak. So much for my upbringing. :D Holst's describes my feelings on the subject very well. I grew up with a biologist father. Basically the attitude at our house was that you could say anything you want about human physiology & body parts as long as you used the correct scientific words for it. So, I know lots of scientific words, but very few of the slang words. I can't remember hearing the word in question today until much later in my life. And of course following Adam has required constant consultation with the urban dictionary. Where I work, there are people from different parts of the world with very different cultures, religions, & sensitivities. We are taught that we should be respectful of all cultures, etc, and never offend anyone. For example, when our student interns start work, they are given the example that they cannot hug someone at work without first making sure (by asking) that that person would not be offended by being hugged at work since this might not be acceptable in some cultures. Not only that, but they have to make sure that no one who might see the hug would be offended by seeing people hug at work. Being sensitive to everyone's feeling means everyone has to operate by the least common denominator. And if you accidentally say or do something that might offend someone without your knowing it, you could be reported and maybe reprimanded by the Human Resources department. A funny, or not, story that involved me. We had a little ballroom dance group at work and we were asked to give a demo at a gathering of the new student interns. One of the dances we chose was a cha cha to Prince's song "Cream". Well, we didn't really listen to the words, we just liked that this version (with added cha cha rhythms) because of the lively (but slow enough for our beginners) tempo which we thought the younger group would like. People from Human Resources were at this get together. Well, afterwards they wanted to know why we played a song about orgasms?? Not until then did I look up the lyrics to the song. Well, OK, it was a bit suggestive, but I didn't really think it was that bad - untill I looked up the word "cream" in the urban dictionary. Then we got it and were like, oh no Well, just thought I'd lighten it up a little with a, now funny but not at the time, story. But also I wanted to point out that it can be like walking a tight rope to try to be sensitive to all the different view points and sensitivities that exist in the world. We could live in a least common denominator world were everyone has to constantly be on guard to keep from saying the wrong thing to the wrong people. Or we can try to understand where other people are coming from and be tolerant when their sensitivities differ from ours. |
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FanOfTheMan
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Post by FanOfTheMan on Dec 18, 2012 0:03:23 GMT -5
I feel sorry for Adam sometimes. We do hold him to such a high standard. Any mistep and we judge him so harshly. He's human and living his own life. I was watching a youtube the other day where he was signing autographs and a woman said, Adam keep the beard. He looked at her and said "it's my face". I know it came from all the talk on twitter about the Melvin and she was probably just trying to reasure him she liked it, but really, he doesn't need our permission. I feel the same about this word. Like it or not he uses it.   Good post. 8-) |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 0:03:52 GMT -5
What can i say....I am a product of my times...ardent 2nd wave feminist and communication scholar. It is my shtick ... but don't want to get pedantic here... I just hate to see the stonings and banishments that occur here regularly...
I think we really all need to be a little more tolerant here if we want to deserve the kudo's we regularly give the community for being so caring and kind.Yes to this. There is a fine line between exchanging ideas and nudging people into lurkdom or worse. Skylar, I really respect that you have put yourself out there on this topic. I'm sort of in the middle: I can clearly see that language changes, but I'm also not in the habit of using a lot of words I read on Atop regularly. However, it has increased my acceptance of them. I was raised thinking that people who used "vulgar" language just weren't educated enough to know some better word choices. Then I met really smart people who cursed a blue streak. So much for my upbringing. :D Okay, Well, I know y'all aren't referring to ME (even tho I keep ending up at the top of these quote things . . ) cuz I haven't stoned or banished or been unkind or intolerant or uncaring. Anyhoo, I asked what I did because it seems a little inconsistent to me to say that Adam using "bitch" gets a pass (even though it too is a girl word) but "cunty" does not. Additionally, as for the worry that that word is going to cause him to lose fans, I personally do not think it would cause him to lose many . . . Hoo boy, compare Adam to so many other stars and he is, as they say on "the twitter," a cupcake. |
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Post by wal on Dec 18, 2012 0:05:14 GMT -5
Adam Lambert @adamlambert
Had to watch the show from last night. So proud except literally just sat here a LAUGHED at my own lame ass on Ray Of Light. #wtfwasithinkin
Luis†∆ngel @lou_XOXO
@adamlambert I'm not gonna lie! I laughed too. But you were rather cute you snuggie-wearin-Madonna-sangin-exorcist you!!!! #AdamIsADiva
Retweeted by Adam Lambert
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