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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 9:56:06 GMT -5
Glad you liked the symphony, talon. I hope the young skater does well in the individual competition so he is on TV again.
Only my opinion -- I just don't give a tinker's damn what anyone else thinks about Adam, or Queen, or Adam and Queen. I was one like taumbu who didn't really know Queen's music before, and now I love it. I don't love the Queen fans who post online, though. While I never visit Queen forums, I see any time I visit a Queen related site, hatred and vitriol heaped on Brian and Roger, though mostly Brian. A Facebook post on Brian's book on old postcards is an occasion for ageist abuse. A Facebook pic of Brian playing earns a jibe to "get a real guitar." The symphony I posted has reviews on Amazon heaping abuse on the composer and the London Symphony Orchestra for the unpardonable sin of tampering with the sacred tones of Freddie Mercury.
It's pretty sad as far as I'm concerned. Freddie was a generous amazing person with a golden heart.
I can offer a tiny bit of insight -- perhaps -- from the Elvis fandom. You mentioned the British/American thing. There may be more to it than even what you say. Elvis had a huge following in the UK, and a large subset of them are purists, who think Elvis essentially "died" in the 50s. They have scorn for the vast majority of his career and refuse to acknowledge its existence. American fans like that are almost unknown. They celebrate Elvis in all his eras, looks, and sizes, and not only tolerate but welcome impersonators and essentially anyone who wants to join in the Elvis fun. While there are Elvis nerds, there are really no U.S. Elvis "monks," zealously recording the Word in their barren, pinched, cold little cells.
Cultural differences and all that. Could also be a gender thing between a male fandom and a female fandom too. Dunno.
My humble thoughts for what they're worth.
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Post by 4EverAdam on Feb 10, 2014 9:57:48 GMT -5
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Post by melliemom on Feb 10, 2014 10:08:28 GMT -5
This conversation on Adam's worthiness to be a Queen frontman and whether or not some Queen fans accept him ,has made me sad and depressed for some strange reason.
I guess I don't need to know who likes or dislikes the combination.. I know I love Adam plus Queen that's enough for me.
I will be at their concert with bells on my toes ,whether or not some Queen traditionalists feel that they would rather miss this incredible event.Why should how they feel be important to me? Without Adam ,I wouldn't know much about Queen, an amazing band,that I have come to love.I'm sure there a great many others who have come to love Queen through Adam.. although in the end none of this matters. What matters is that they will be performing together, hopefully this summer, and IMHO it will be Epic.
I'm excited to my core and really don't feel like having my excitement dashed in any way..
So off for my walk before it snows.
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sugaree
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Post by sugaree on Feb 10, 2014 10:15:55 GMT -5
Someone tried to post this one yesterday, but I saw no link. Melissa Etheridge at the 2005 Grammys' tribute to Janis Joplin. Her first public appearance after surviving breast cancer and chemo. Most empowering performance I've ever seen. www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXlaeVDd_Tg |
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talon
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Post by talon on Feb 10, 2014 10:21:41 GMT -5
Talon, what about the new, perhaps younger fans who have not been that familiar with Queen or their songs? I would place myself in that category although I'm not that young. I have grown to love Queens music because of Adam, and often search for old videos to watch Queen in their prime. I just think the music is so beautiful and special it needs to be heard by the next generation, and to deprive Roger and Brian that opportunity is cruel. Also, IMO, Adam brings something very special to their music. BTY, thank you for all yout insight and knowledge and TY for sharing it with us. That's a good question. I would consider those Queen fans in the last category. They like the music and like to see/hear it played. Beyond that everything else is pretty irrelevant  I'm actually really glad to see Adam perhaps bringing some fans to Queen as well as to Freddie even Just for the sake of argument, I want to rebut the arguments Talon has posted as the ones Queen fans use to judge Adam as a valid partner for Queen. (Talon, I'm not taking issue with you, but with Queen fans who think Adam's not qualified.) Talon says these fans want the artist handling Freddie's role to have: 1. A successful career of their own (long term, many albums and/or hit singles) An established track record as a hitmaker is a good thing. However, I’d say it’s more important for an artist who wants to play with Queen to have a superb voice and glam performance style. And vocal passion too. There are many artists who’ve been around awhile and have many albums or singles to boast of – but they would be wrong for Queen. I’ve always adored the Beatles, but do I want to hear Paul McCartney standing for Freddie? Roger Daltrey? Jagger? Nope, not even Elton. I also couldn’t get behind any of the artists Talon mentioned (Matt Bellamy, etc., though I love Matt) To clarify I don't think it's necessarily a "hit-maker" but just someone who comes in on more of an equal footing. I tend to agree with you...although I'd be less against seeing Paul or Roger or Mick if only because it's two worlds colliding and that always has interesting potential...for example I would love to hear Queen + Paul McCartney with them doing Crazy Little Thing and then Hey Jude....but that's me. I wouldn't mind seeing a Queen + Matt one off performance or one off song..but nothing long term. Agreed. BUT I'm not from Britain so what do I know  You'd be surprised  There are some Queen fans who don't like his voice. Of more possible relevance would be some people don't like his "rock" voice. I can sort of see that. He's far better in the ballad/pop area than the harder rock moments. I love Adam's voice. But in my humble opinion that's one reason I like Freddie's better - I feel he slides more comfortably from heavy metal/rock to pop/ballad, etc. BUT I am not stupid enough to say Adam can't sing rock! I agree. I guess though that was the point of QPR. It's kind of strange. QPR was supposed to NOT be any kind of incorporation but more of a combination of two artists. The big differences were: a. Queen are still bigger than Paul Rodgers b. Queen initially wanted to go half Queen/half PR material but Paul deferred a bit since Queen hadn't been on tour for nearly 20 years at that point so they did it more the 3/4 Queen - 1/4 PR. SO that sabotages the idea of Paul not merely guesting. c. QAL at this point is a different animal in that it is more about Queen and the Queen catalogue, etc. I see that point. Most Queen/rock fans are nostalgic for those olden days and are crotchety old men (and women). I myself can be accused of that especially as my daughters (and wife) start listening to all their favos of today like One Direction, etc. etc. Luckily I do do my job and they do like old school Beatles, Queen, Billy Joel etc. as well but it's a lifelong battle Glad you liked the symphony, talon. I hope the young skater does well in the individual competition so he is on TV again. Me too! I'll try to hunt it down when I get home - see if its on YT or some highlights reel or something. Could be! Interesting thoughts |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 10:22:23 GMT -5
Totally coincidental unless you don't believe anything is. Left this site and went and visited a favorite blogger and found this wonderful set of thoughts: Do You Have a Sad Fish Inside? Especially this: FATAL MISTAKE: To begrudge happiness because you are angry/disenchanted/hurt/exhausted/sick of it or, the worst of all, feeling sorry for yourself (FSFY). FSFY is a known killer, causing Sad Fish to lay eggs, causing normal living humans to become the walking dead. Unable to appreciate or acknowledge the good things and people around them out of a stubborn sense of being singled out in life for pain or fear of losing focus on the shitty things and/or people’s sympathy for them, FSFY causes severe uglification and decay of the soul, slowly poisoning a person until they vomit up their Sad, Dead Fish and eat it while hissing brains, brainsssssss. |
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Post by cassie on Feb 10, 2014 10:25:51 GMT -5
Talon, thanks for your detailed explanation of Queen fans' reaction to Adam as frontman. Their "arguments" or tenets actually make some kind of strange sense. Sorta.
I have always thought that Paul Rogers was eventually accepted (or at least tolerated) because he was so different from Freddie there could never be any talk of him being Freddie's "replacement." Different vocal range, different tones and character to his voice, different interpretations, different performance style, different style/appearance choices with no attempt to be theatrical. Paul mainly stood there and belted out the songs. Period. In lower keys. He did not have Freddie's range or Freddie's showmanship, and didn't strive to. It was patently impossible for Rogers to equal Freddie's performances vocally or visually. Or even come close. Rogers was "safe".
Is part of fans' antipathy toward Adam based on the concern that Adam is often compared to Freddie favorably? No, he doesn't look or sound like Freddie, but he can match most of Fredddie's range and power vocally. Truth be told, as a live performer, Adam's upper range exceeds what Freddie was able to sing after blowing out his voice. I am no Freddie expert, but from the videos of Queen live performances, Adam's voice has more power than Freddie's, too. Could it be that Adam is seen as a "threat" to Freddie's supremacy as a vocalist?
Freddie was wonderfully theatrical on stage. He chewed up that stage, front to back, left to right. While Adam is not imitating Freddie, he certainly studied Freddie's performances for years, admired his theatricality and took notes about how to own a stage, a performance and an audience. Is it possible that Queen fans see Adam performing and, instead of thinking "Oh, he is a showman in the spirit of Freddie... he fits well into the Queen persona," they think, "He is invading Freddie's territory"?
It seems possible that for some Freddie fans, Adam is somehow a direct threat to Freddie's status as the best frontman in rock. (Those rock fans at DDD actually ranked Adam higher than Freddie in vocal technique!) Some heretics have even had the nerve to say that Adam's voice and performance style EQUAL Freddie's or Adam is the natural inheritor of Freddie's crown. There are even a few "lunatics" who say that Adam is a better singer than Freddie (and better looking and sexier, too). And the student should never surpass the master.
Just my thoughts on the matter, since there is no news AGAIN today.
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Post by Q3 on Feb 10, 2014 10:27:27 GMT -5
<Scroll alert>
The discussion about the opinion of "die hard Queen fans" about Queen + Adam Lambert is interesting but makes little sense to me.
For starters, what is a "die hard Queen fan"? Is it a 19 year old Queen fan who is passionate about Freddie. Is it someone who actually saw Queen in Montreal live vs. on video and therefore considers themselves a Queen expert? Is it someone who knows all the Queen facts? Or is it someone (now over 60 years old) who saw Queen in the 70's when Freddie was outrageous and stunning. Who has decided what these fans think?
>> I take the comments of some people who post about Queen and Freddie online and the comments of "rock purists" with a big lump of salt. The US "rock purists" mostly were not Queen fans in 1980, so what do they matter now.
And what does it matter if someone found out what "die hard Queen fans" think? Queen was a mainstream popular band and very few of the people in the audience at their US arena shows were "die hard Queen fans". The arenas were filled with people who liked Queen's music, not "die hard fans".
I met some "die hard" UK Queen fans queuing up in the London rain for Queen + Adam Lambert in London. Before the concert started, there was skepticism that this American singer could do justice to the music. After the concert there were few skeptics left.
>> Even in London for a GA show, there were only about 100 people in line for Q+AL Hammersmith -- and about half were there for Adam. Just not seeing evidence that there are all these "die hard" fans. Yes, there was "Japanese Freddie" who is always present. But Adam has a few of those fans too.
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I attended many Queen concerts in the early years. The band was powerful, Brian's guitar framed the sound of Queen live, John Deacon's bass line and Rogers beat powered the crowd but it was all about the experience and power of Freddie, his magnificent presence. I never once heard anyone walk out of a Queen concert and say one word about some note Freddie hit. It did not matter, although he was a stunning vocalist, it was not the most outstanding thing about seeing Freddie live. It was his outrageous, his reckless abandon, his ability to control each person in the audience completely.
>> With all due respect, this focus on cataloging notes people hit on spreadsheets and comparing vocalists and discussion about goat vibratos which permeates some of the rock forums is something that would have been mocked by most rock aficionados in 1979. It is not want what rock music was about.
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There was no web to connect fans from the UK and the US when Queen was in the prime. So my knowledge and experience is limited to North America.
Queen was popular in the US as a performing act from 1974 (only a few people really saw them in 1974-1975) to 1982. Since 1982 they have been known to US fans because of recordings and videos. No one born after 1968 saw Queen live with Freddie in the US at an age that mattered. (I arbitrarily put the age of a sentient concert goers at 14.) That means "no one" under the age of 45 years old in the US even has a real idea what a live Queen concert was like.
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I honestly think that when Queen + Adam Lambert tours the US the "die hard" fans in the audience will mostly be Adam Lambert fans. Sure there will be Queen fans in the audience but a lot of "die hard" Queen fans in the US. I really doubt it.
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Finally, I am looking forward to seeing Queen + Adam Lambert in the US. I hope to be at a number of shows. I have high expectations. But I have no expectation that it will be anything like seeing Queen live in 1979. I have changed. Music has changed. And Freddie and John Deacon will not be there. We can never go back again, but we can have great new experiences.
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An aside: I am not a "die hard Queen fan" but I am a long time Queen fan and clearly an Adam fan -- and the only thing I now despise about Queen + Adam Lambert is when people refer to it as Queenbert which I did for a while before I realizes it 1. Removed ADAM from the name, and 2. Mangles "Queen" into something else, and 3. Is apparently annoying to Queen fans. I recommend we stop using this term. Also, I think it is certainly better for Adam's social media presence/rating to use his full name.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 10:37:31 GMT -5
Thank you Talon. You have given us lots of insight and wisdom over the years!
As Q3said better, I do think you are greatly underestimating the numbers of casual fans. I think there are many more people who have enjoyed Queen through the decades but who would never consider joining any fan club or online forums and whose voices you never hear in the fandom but who are singing along on the radio and at events by the millions.
Perhaps I should not say this. I try to put myself in the Queen fans' shoes and I do sympathize, really, but I just can't keep nodding and saying nothing. Based on your description--- what an elitist, entiled bunch who are so blind with their own certainty of how the world should work just as it always has--in their small little, UK/rock centric, days gone by viewfinder, that they refuse to recognize that the music still holds the magic--and a master "once in a lifetime" interpreter like Adam can capture some of it for them if only they were willing to sit down, shut up and listen. What a waste that this collaboration is going to bring such joy to so many, but not to the ones who deserve it the most. I hope I never get to the point that I don't recognize true artistry because I am too busy wearing my shroud of mourning and going over the checklist to feel.
Rant over, sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2014 10:39:33 GMT -5
Don't mean to be rude & talon I love having you here so this does not refer to you!
But I really don't give a fuck what the stuck in the 70s/80s Queen fans think about Adam with Queen! If he's good enough for Brian and Roger, he should be good enough for any Queen fans! Fact is, it is happening and I will do whatever it takes to get there! The die hards can sit in their garages and listen to recorded music.
I have a feeling this will be Roger and Brian's last tour.
See you guys tomorrow!!
SQUEEEEEEEE! Adam and Melissa!!
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There are some Queen fans who don't like his voice. Of more possible relevance would be some people don't like his "rock" voice. I can sort of see that. He's far better in the ballad/pop area than the harder rock moments. I love Adam's voice. But in my humble opinion that's one reason I like Freddie's better - I feel he slides more comfortably from heavy metal/rock to pop/ballad, etc. BUT I am not stupid enough to say Adam can't sing rock! 
