mirages
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Post by mirages on Jan 15, 2015 13:53:17 GMT -5
Personally, I like to read poetry aloud--to me, the sound of it is just as important as the words. There has to be some kind of music in it, not necessarily rhymes, but a rhythm or a tempo, a musicality that sort of draws me in and makes me get lost in it. Which reminds me of this song: www.youtube.com/watch?v=43qB9FpfCR8It's so good... I've been listening to it all day. There's a youtube comment I liked: "Has any song ever so perfectly captured what it itself is about?" I totally agree: this song describes itself perfectly. Similarly, just like you would write a disco song to talk about abandon, I think poetry (or poetic language) is perfect for describing certain things that would be difficult to explain otherwise. Because it can have so many functions at the same time - descriptive, evocative, emotional, etc. - you need to employ all your faculties to fully understand it: you need to see and hear it with your mind and your heart. I think poetry requires more attention from the reader than prose. (Well, not always, and not all writers, but generally speaking.) You really need to be present. At least, that's the kind of poetry I like best. I'm pretty sure I hear Nile Rogers chucking in this one, too -- how 'bout that? I like what you're saying. Words, finally, much as I love and swim in them, can't express what is really essential -- we can only arrange words around the edges of it and hope to see its shape, I think. Yes to reading poetry aloud. I memorize it, too, and recite it to myself while walking -- great for companionship and the rhythm. I love ee cummings and TS Elliot especially for the sounds and rhythms of their words as well as for their imagery. Saint Leonard just slays me at some level where both the beauty and the horror of our lives are acknowledged. I also like what you say about presence -- one of the great puzzles is why it's so darned hard to stay conscious, to stay present, why we always seem to be falling asleep in the midst of our lives. Poetry comes, often, from something glimpsed in an instant while fully awake, and the reader must be fully present and awake to receive it, too -- so I think you're right that it requires more of the reader. I also liked that you chose a song to express all this that talked about being "lost" -- one of the paradoxes is we are never so much ourselves, so present, so much "found" as when we are completely lost in flow, whether it's of music or writing or conversation or just a walk by the river. My daughter (who's 13) is in the process of trying to devise powers for a wand she's imagining, and she wanted to give it time-travel abilities but kept running into the paradoxes. She has finally decided to give it the power of creating "paradox fields". Divergent thinker, that girl. And back to Adam ... one of the things that most powerfully struck me about him on Idol was that you could SEE him call himself back from being lost (and yet found) in the music when he stood before the judges -- you could see him making himself fully present and centred in that particular moment. And I was so struck by how he could maintain that posture in the midst of all the stress and hopes and fears of a competition like AI -- one of the many moments of falling a little farther down the rabbit hole and in love with him was when they were down the the final 3 (or 4?) and Katy Perry was on the show, and Danny was, as most of us would be, horribly anxious to know the results and whether he was in or out, and then you could hear Adam say gleefully, "I just wanna see Katy Perry!" He was so there in that moment and so open to whatever gift it might offer that it enabled him to focus on Katy and not on the very relevant issue of whether he had one more week on the show or not.Man, I admire and aspire to that (from a great way off)!
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mika
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Post by mika on Feb 9, 2015 20:36:13 GMT -5
MIRAGES, Moon Mistress - look at your beautiful home! Silver star you!
I know we have a lot of Mary Oliver fans. I don't know why I like her so much - I don't usually appreciate poets who focus on nature as theme (probably because I like to stay inside and sleep) - I think it's because you can hear her soul so clearly. I've been carrying her recentish book - Blue Horses - around and don't want to violate her copyright so I'll leave just an excerpt from a poem I liked "Angels" (I like angel poems - it's a thing)
"...I have a lot of edges called Perhaps and almost nothing you can call Certainty. For myself, but not for other people. That's a place you just can't get into, not entirely anyway, other people's heads.
I'll just leave you with this. I don't care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's enough to know that for some people they exist, and that they dance."
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Post by toramenor on Feb 11, 2015 14:10:07 GMT -5
Beautiful poem, mika - loved it. *** A propos of nothing, I was just reading a movie review (not important which movie), when the (female) critic made a general comment about her likes, and she wrote: "I don't like men crying in films". I'm quoting it to show I'm not taking it out of context, she wasn't referring to just this particular movie (which, admittedly, does have scenes with the male character crying) and, besides, her review was generally positive, but this sentence has just stuck with me and made me think about gender (in)equality in general. I am a feminist and I believe women should have equal rights, opportunities, responsibilities, etc. Unfortunately, there is not yet a single country in the world that can boast full gender equality, and women are still regarded as less than men. But, this isn't (just) about women. What does not get talked about a lot is the fact that gender inequality affects men just as it does women. In different ways, perhaps, but just as deeply, with lasting and sometimes even devastating consequences. The comment by this film critic how she doesn't like to see men cry in films reflects one of these societal deep-rooted opinions that "boys don't cry". But what is crying? It is a biological response to emotion. And emotion is human, not male or female. Are men not human? Why should they not be "allowed" to cry? Yet, if a man cries, he is somehow viewed as less of a man. Now, that is a consequence of gender inequality too - a consequence that affects everyone, both men and women. Because crying is (falsely) associated with weakness, and because weakness is still (falsely) associated with women, and because women are still regarded as less than men, it follows that a "real man" must not cry, or display any other "woman-like" behaviour. In other words, a "real man" is not allowed as much freedom as one might think: there is no freedom to be yourself if there's a set of rules you must follow. Equality implies not only equal rights under the law, but also equal freedoms in society. Now, some might say that men have all the freedom/rights, while women have less freedom/rights, but this is not true. Men can have no freedom as long as women have no freedom; what affects one gender affects the other as well, just as I explained above: as long as one gender is valued as less, the other gender is not free to just be human. Equality is having the right and the freedom to be yourself without being regarded as either less or more on account of your gender. I really appreciated Emma Watson's (recent-ish) speech* at the United Nations precisely because she talks not only about how gender inequality still affects women across the globe, but also how it affects men. The battle against inequality is not just for women, it is for men as well. It is for everyone, so that we can all have equal rights and freedoms. No one is free as long as there is just one person in the world who isn't. If you are still reading this post, first of all thanks , and then, I'll tie this off by going back to my thoughts on freedom to be yourself and freedom of self-expression, which I think are somewhere in my previous posts in this thread. This is what I believe: it may not be easy to figure out who you are; it may not be easy to express yourself fully and completely - but this is your life and nobody else can live it for you. If you don't do it, who will? Nobody can tell you who you are, because you are the only one who can discover that. Nobody can tell you what you're feeling, because they can't live inside your mind. And nobody can express your true self, because nobody can know you better than you. Now, all of this may sound kinda lonely, or even isolating, as if we were all islands, alone in the middle of a vast ocean. And it's true that being unique implies being alone, but that's why it's important to have the freedom not just to be yourself but also to express yourself without fear of reprisals/rejection/judgement - because by expressing yourself you connect with other unique people who are then able to see you for who you truly are. Through self-expression you are connected with others and therefore you are not alone. ----- * Here is the link to her speech - she was very eloquent and insightful: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iFl4qhBsE
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Feb 18, 2015 12:03:09 GMT -5
MIRAGES, Moon Mistress - look at your beautiful home! Silver star you!
I know we have a lot of Mary Oliver fans. I don't know why I like her so much - I don't usually appreciate poets who focus on nature as theme (probably because I like to stay inside and sleep) - I think it's because you can hear her soul so clearly. I've been carrying her recentish book - Blue Horses - around and don't want to violate her copyright so I'll leave just an excerpt from a poem I liked "Angels" (I like angel poems - it's a thing)
"...I have a lot of edges called Perhaps and almost nothing you can call Certainty. For myself, but not for other people. That's a place you just can't get into, not entirely anyway, other people's heads.
I'll just leave you with this. I don't care how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's enough to know that for some people they exist, and that they dance."
MIKA!!!! You shimmery-lithe, slippery-coy koi, you! How we've missed you in general, and now I see I've missed you specifically by more than a week here in After Hours -- shoot! And my apologies! Discussion in daily threads of late has been quite diverse, so it made sense to leave it there, and I hadn't checked in here for too long.
I gratefully wore your moon avi for many, many moons, and only recently switched it out for the current one -- I seem to gravitate to the fringes . Not surprisingly, then, I adore the line you quoted, "I have a lot of edges called Perhaps." Yes. Have you listened to Leonard Cohen's last couple of albums? His Zen training has given him a ruthlessly sharp knife to whittle his verse down to bare bone. I love Old Ideas and the newer Popular Problems has some great moments. I really like this one:
I know the burden's heavy As you wheel it through the night Some people say it's empty But that don't mean it's light
I hadn't realized Mary Oliver had a new collection out, so thanks for that -- I'll go seek it out!
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Feb 18, 2015 12:40:34 GMT -5
I really appreciated Emma Watson's (recent-ish) speech* at the United Nations precisely because she talks not only about how gender inequality still affects women across the globe, but also how it affects men. The battle against inequality is not just for women, it is for men as well. It is for everyone, so that we can all have equal rights and freedoms. No one is free as long as there is just one person in the world who isn't. If you are still reading this post, first of all thanks , and then, I'll tie this off by going back to my thoughts on freedom to be yourself and freedom of self-expression, which I think are somewhere in my previous posts in this thread. This is what I believe: it may not be easy to figure out who you are; it may not be easy to express yourself fully and completely - but this is your life and nobody else can live it for you. If you don't do it, who will? Nobody can tell you who you are, because you are the only one who can discover that. Nobody can tell you what you're feeling, because they can't live inside your mind. And nobody can express your true self, because nobody can know you better than you. Now, all of this may sound kinda lonely, or even isolating, as if we were all islands, alone in the middle of a vast ocean. And it's true that being unique implies being alone, but that's why it's important to have the freedom not just to be yourself but also to express yourself without fear of reprisals/rejection/judgement - because by expressing yourself you connect with other unique people who are then able to see you for who you truly are. Through self-expression you are connected with others and therefore you are not alone. toramenor, good to see you, and my apologies for such a slow response. We usually do have a time-lapse conversation, but a recent trip out of town rendered this one more extended than usual! Gender fluidity is one of the things Adam has made me think about a lot -- it's something I find very attractive in him, the way he feels free to be both Killer Queen and Stone Cold Crazy, often moving from alpha male to femme fatale from one breath to the next and with a self-aware but not at all self-deprecating laugh in between. And yet, one of the few statements he's made that disappointed me was years ago when he was asked if he didn't think that the criticism and violence men attract when they dress or behave in feminine ways was evidence that society still undervalues the feminine. I definitely think it does. I'm a feminist, too, and I agree with Emma Watson that it's a hard label to own because it's not popular. Feminists did ourselves no favours once upon a time by having very little sense of humour (or, sometimes, proportion). I remember a joke along the lines of, "How many feminists does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One. And it's NOT funny.") I once took a film studies class led by a Marxist feminist and the combination of ghastly academic verbiage and no sense of ha-ha in that course nearly drove me to drink. I think most of that is long gone, thankfully, and Emma Watson is speaking with the voice of a new feminism that can be and is embraced by both genders ... I suppose, really, it is more rightly humanism. But ... I'm a mother of a son and a daughter, both teens. When they were little, I let my son wear the purple princess dress because he liked it, and when my daughter squealed, "I'm a pwincess, wescue me!" I quickly shot back, "Wescue yourself, pwincess!" But still ... there are different rules. My daughter did a teenage slouch in the back of the car the other day, legs akimbo, and I found myself telling her that in public she'd need to to "sit like a lady" -- EEP! Good posture is good for both genders, but I'm quicker to correct hers than her brothers, thinking I'm protecting her. But she gets the message that she has more restrictions on her behaviour. However, there also are restrictions on men's behaviour when it comes to showing emotion. I love a man who can cry. On the other hand, though, my daughter has grown up into a pretty fierce little person who can and will whup her older brother, and he sometimes whines and whinges and I EEP just as much when "Man up!" almost leaps from my lips. I don't think whining is attractive in either gender, but there's more tolerance for a woman to show weakness than for a man. I remember, years ago, my very sensitive boy was grieving over a friendship that was coming apart and I tried to help him let go, saying he and the other boy were just growing apart. Then, next time he saw his friend, I watched my son totally squick him out by saying that aloud, "I think we're growing apart, Isaac." The other boy practically turned inside out, mutely shireking, "DON'T TALK TO ME ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS!!! Can't you just roar like a dinosaur and let it go?" So the lines of gender are fluid, but there is still something to celebrate and learn from in the archetypally feminine and archetypally masculine ... have you read Gloria Steinem's Revolution from Within? She talks a lot about what men and women can both learn from the other's archetypes and ways of seeking and manifesting power. She talks about the "male" form of power often being hierarchical, the male trajectory a straight line forward. On the other hand, she says, the "female" idea of power is more relational and our trajectory is curved into a circle, a cycle. Seen this way, the highest form of power is not mastery over another, but self-completion. In terms of this worldview, western civilization is extremely "male" in outlook and orientation, aboriginal cultures more often "female" and cyclical and circular. Both are good and there's a time for all things as Ecclesiastes said. I especially like Emma Watson's challenge to herself and others. "If not me, who? If not now, when?" My city recently lost a 58-year-old man who revolutionized the local theatre scene, introducing avant-garde productions and, eventually, our own fringe festival. Nobody could have seen that this city needed or would support that kind of theatre, but it has, and we're so much richer and more diverse for it. And I think he accomplished it by creating what he wanted to see on the stage, much as many writers say that they write the books they would like to read but can't find. If Adam is "about" anything other than living his own life to the full, he's about encouraging and inspiring his fans to bring forth whatever it is that's in them. It's not up to us to judge it as good, bad or indifferent, but just to get out of the way and let it flow. Easier said than done, though!
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Post by toramenor on Feb 19, 2015 6:38:56 GMT -5
toramenor, good to see you, and my apologies for such a slow response. We usually do have a time-lapse conversation, but a recent trip out of town rendered this one more extended than usual! Good to see you too! I liked your post, and I get it. But I don't want to go into a huge discussion on feminism and gender equality (I'll just say I love your term "humanism"). And I want to comment on this: have you read Gloria Steinem's Revolution from Within? ... She talks about the "male" form of power often being hierarchical, the male trajectory a straight line forward. On the other hand, she says, the "female" idea of power is more relational and our trajectory is curved into a circle, a cycle. Seen this way, the highest form of power is not mastery over another, but self-completion. I didn't read the book, but what you describe is familiar to me from a source that might surprise you: martial arts. Without going too deep into terminology (cause I'm not an expert, so I'd just get lost anyway) - there are internal and external martial arts. And there are many kinds of both these types - there are different styles, different philosophies, and so on. But what's relevant to this is there are these 2 styles of internal martial arts: let's call them style A and style B, which are at first glance the opposite of one another. Style A philosophy is: always take the most direct route, and the most direct route from one point to another is a straight line. Style B is based on the philosophy of fluid, circular motion: find the center and describe a circle around it. They are both internal because most of the stuff you need to do in order to "perform" these styles happens inside your head and inside your body. Nevertheless, if you saw 2 martial artists perform style A and style B next to each other you'd know which one is which, even though you can't see into their minds and understand their philosophies, because the external movements are reminiscent of the philosophy behind them - style A would include straight lines, while style B would include circular motions. Now the questions you might pose are: Which style is better? Which one gives you more power? The answer is simple: they are equally powerful if done by martial arts experts who have studied these styles. It depends on the person: if you've studied style A your whole life, lived that philosophy, performed those movements every day - then style A will be the most powerful and the best style for you. And vice versa, if you've studied style B your whole life - style B will be the best style for you. And there is nothing male or female about these martial arts. Just like there is nothing inherently male or female about the forms of power Gloria Steinem talks about. We can give them these labels and say this is male and this is female, but it's not a biological thing - it's not inherent. It's a learned philosophy. And when it's seen on a larger scale - if we look at entire societies, and if we include the historical development and transfer of power from generation to generation, for thousands of years, we see how and why it's come to be associated with male or female gender. Chinese society is very patriarchal, even more than Western society perhaps, but they also have what you might term the "female" form of power - which is a paradox if you think about it - how can it be a patriarchal society with female power? Well, the way out of the paradox is to understand that the philosophy in question is not female at all. That is why men have been using it too. It's not about gender - it's about what style works for you: that style will give you the most power. Of course, martial arts teaches you that your greatest opponent is yourself and that the highest form of power is mastering yourself. It has nothing to do with comparing yourself to other people, it has nothing to do with whether you are stronger, faster, better, than anyone else. It has nothing to do with others. It's so simple, really, but you have to get through that whole journey before you can figure it out for yourself. Some may never get there, some may never get that realisation, but just striving towards those goals is a feat in itself. So, I know that the world won't change within my lifetime to the extent where I can live in a society of equality, but I'll do my best to strive towards that. That's my point of view.
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Feb 19, 2015 12:56:04 GMT -5
So, I know that the world won't change within my lifetime to the extent where I can live in a society of equality, but I'll do my best to strive towards that. That's my point of view. Good point of view! I practiced tai chi for more than 20 years, so I'm familiar with what you wrote about the different styles of martial arts, and it's a good analogy. Tai chi is an internal form, of course, but even within that single form you have both forms of power/movement expressed, and my teacher characterized them as male/female ... in the middle of the short Yang form, you do a series of moves based on the Chinese pictographs for "male" and "female," which I was told* are: male = three straight parallel horizontal lines; female = three straight parallel lines, broken in the middle so there's a gap in the middle of each line. I was not at all pleased to be told that the male symbol was three intact, strong/whole-seeming lines and the female equivalent was "broken". However, when you do the movements, what you actually see/experience is exactly what you described -- the male movements are linear, forceful, forward-thrusting, aggressive. The "female" movements are curved, receptive, deflecting. There's a time and a place for both. Human consciousness seems necessarily dualistic, but growth and peace seems to lead us in the direction of nondualism. Intelligence is good, but it goes only so far and at a certain point only enables you to run in the same circles faster. We undervalue intuition (which perhaps is akin to or a means of passage to, magic, now that I think about it). The more I did those particular moves in tai chi over the years, the more I realized how complementary they are, and especially, how much we need the "broken" lines with the gaps in them, the receptive places in ourselves. As Saint Leonard says (you had to know this was coming, right?), "There's a crack, a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in." As GFG Adam points out, sometimes strength/power/wisdom is in allowing oneself to be broken open. *Note: I just googled it and see nothing like this, so not sure if I was misled/taught or if my query isn't specific enough.
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Feb 19, 2015 15:40:28 GMT -5
toramenor, a friend sent me a link to this article last night, and I thought it might interest you -- see what you think: www.brainpickings.org/2012/10/30/yoko-ono-grapefruit/I found the second-last paragraph striking and (as a former journalist and life-long information-hound) challenging: Finally, at the next-to-last show, I realized that asking others about their experience, their perceptions, was how I protect myself from immersion (and fear of drowning) in my own. Journalism had provided me with the sensation of being in control of the situation; if I was feeding on and exploiting information, that meant I must not be filling the only other role I’d known: that of the exploited.
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Post by toramenor on Feb 21, 2015 4:22:51 GMT -5
toramenor, a friend sent me a link to this article last night, and I thought it might interest you -- see what you think: www.brainpickings.org/2012/10/30/yoko-ono-grapefruit/I found the second-last paragraph striking and (as a former journalist and life-long information-hound) challenging: Finally, at the next-to-last show, I realized that asking others about their experience, their perceptions, was how I protect myself from immersion (and fear of drowning) in my own. Journalism had provided me with the sensation of being in control of the situation; if I was feeding on and exploiting information, that meant I must not be filling the only other role I’d known: that of the exploited.
I couldn't find this article you quoted - is this a different link? - this link you posted here only led me to quotes from Yoko Ono's book, which looks really interesting and I loved some of the little gems she shares... but the above quote in itallics wasn't there... what am I missing? Here's a link to a piece I've just read about the artistic process: www.huffingtonpost.com/george-heymont/a-star-is-torn_b_4541765.htmlI think anyone might find it really interesting. The article is about the process of creating art and then talks about two recent projects that explore this theme: the movie Five Dances (which I've watched 5 times or more, it is so stunning and beautiful!) and the Broadway musical Beautiful - The Carole King Musical.
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Feb 21, 2015 13:12:28 GMT -5
toramenor, a friend sent me a link to this article last night, and I thought it might interest you -- see what you think: www.brainpickings.org/2012/10/30/yoko-ono-grapefruit/I found the second-last paragraph striking and (as a former journalist and life-long information-hound) challenging: Finally, at the next-to-last show, I realized that asking others about their experience, their perceptions, was how I protect myself from immersion (and fear of drowning) in my own. Journalism had provided me with the sensation of being in control of the situation; if I was feeding on and exploiting information, that meant I must not be filling the only other role I’d known: that of the exploited.
I couldn't find this article you quoted - is this a different link? - this link you posted here only led me to quotes from Yoko Ono's book, which looks really interesting and I loved some of the little gems she shares... but the above quote in itallics wasn't there... what am I missing? Here's a link to a piece I've just read about the artistic process: www.huffingtonpost.com/george-heymont/a-star-is-torn_b_4541765.htmlI think anyone might find it really interesting. The article is about the process of creating art and then talks about two recent projects that explore this theme: the movie Five Dances (which I've watched 5 times or more, it is so stunning and beautiful!) and the Broadway musical Beautiful - The Carole King Musical. toramenor, you're not missing anything -- it's me who's missing a few neurons. Here's the correct link -- that'll teach me not to click and check it myself after posting! www.lionsroar.com/thanks-to-yoko-march-2014/Yours worked, though -- looking forward to reading and watching that material later today. I just watched a documentary on Rudolf Nureyev yesterday and am looking forward to the dance pieces especially.
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