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Post by freakydeaky on Jun 10, 2015 12:36:25 GMT -5
If you're more interested in fantasy fiction (young adult), then, by all means, start with Earthsea: there are 4 books. If you want to start chronologically, the first book is A Wizard of Earthsea.If you're looking for something equally imaginative, but more adult - The Left Hand Of Darkness and The Dispossessed are her best novels - they are in the sci-fi genre, but really they are so much more than that. They have both won numerous awards and for good reason. Two of the best works in any genre, in my opinion, not just in the science fiction genre. The Left Hand Of Darkness explores themes such as gender and identity along with being a nail-biting adventure of the highest caliber, while The Dispossessed explores politics and society better than any political or realist novel I've ever read. The Word For World Is Forest is another marvelous contribution which I'd recommend--this story explores empathy--again, like I've never seen before. The truth is, you can start from anywhere - her imaginary worlds will captivate you for sure - and along with enjoyment, there's plenty of depth and meaning to be found. Wow, she sounds right up my street! My favourite writers are Jeanette Winterson, Graham Joyce and Neil Gaiman. Thankyou for taking the time to reply...
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 10, 2015 18:17:05 GMT -5
Thanks for that bit of Fry and Laurie, toramenor -- I'm a fan of both, and have been binge-watching "House" on Netflix periodically over the last year, so very disorienting to see the doctor doing a sort of vaudeville! Love Stephen Fry, too -- have you ever seen his documentary on bipolar? Fascinating, self-reflective stuff. My apologies for the slow response -- the Fry and Laurie clip reminded me of another satirical singer from the '60s, Tom Lehrer (also a professor of mathematics): This old footage, but Lehrer had his heyday in the '60s and '70s, and I've heard that he said he stopped writing and performing in the '70s because satire became redundant when Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Post by mirages on Jun 10, 2015 18:34:09 GMT -5
I don't know, but she's won a lot of awards, so I guess it's possible. Yes, she is amazing, and her books are still among my favorites. I think that's the hallmark of great books - that you can read them again and again and always find greatness in them. I looked it up and he presented her with a lifetime achievement award. So, what book/s of hers would you recommend to start with? She has the right attitude - Your art should not be compromised by your desire for sales... freakydeaky (fun name), welcome! I'm not a techie so I'm not sure if the same thing will happen for you, but after I watched the video of Ursula LeGuinn that toramenor posted, I was offered four more related videos and one of them was the presentation of the lifetime achievement award. I also see an interview with Bill Moyers there -- I am probably going to get lost again (n the best way)! toramenor, while watching the video you posted, I was struck by the thought, "Now here is an Elder!" Everybody ages, not everyone becomes an elder with that kind of courage. Thanks for sharing it!
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 11, 2015 0:48:42 GMT -5
I'm currently reading Susan Sontag's essays. (For those who haven't read her, she wrote a few novels, but was mostly known as an essayist, a critic and, I would say, a philosopher. She definitely wasn't your typical run-of-the-mill writer. I watched a documentary about her life: Regarding Susan Sontag, at a film festival last month, and it's a wonderful movie, full of details about her life and work. For example, I had no idea that she was also a film maker, and I definitely didn't have a clear understanding of what she was about - which, as I understand it now, was freedom -- in art, in criticism, and in life.) So, here are some thoughts I found interesting [my bold] from her essay On Style:- A work of art encountered as a work of art is an experience, not a statement or an answer to a question. Art is not only about something; it is something. A work of art is a thing in the world, not just a text or commentary on the world. [...] the knowledge we gain through art is an experience of the form or style of knowing something, rather than a knowledge of something (like a fact or a moral judgement) in itself. [...] Hence, too, the peculiar dependence of a work of art, however expressive, upon the cooperation of the person having the experience, for one may see what is "said" but remain unmoved, either through dullness or distraction. Art is seduction, not rape. A work of art proposes a type of experience designed to manifest the quality of imperiousness. But art cannot seduce without the complicity of the experiencing subject.
- All great art induces contemplation, a dynamic contemplation. However much the reader or listener or spectator is aroused by a provisional identification of what is in the work of art with real life, his ultimate reaction - so far as he is reacting to the work as a work of art - must be detached, restful, contemplative, emotionally free, beyond indignation and approval.
- To become involved with a work of art entails, to be sure, the experience of detaching oneself from the world. But the work of art itself is also a vibrant, magical, and exemplary object which returns us to the world in some way more open and enriched.
- In the strictest sense, all the contents of consciousness are ineffable. Even the simplest sensation is, in its totality, indescribable. Every work of art, therefore, needs to be understood not only as something rendered, but also as a certain handling of the ineffable. In the greatest art, one is always aware of things that cannot be said..., of the contradiction between expression and the presence of the inexpressible. [...] The most potent elements in a work of art are, often, its silences.
It was Adam who got me to read Susan Sontag's Notes on Camp -- I'm going to have to look up that documentary. Today I listened to a podcast from a CBC radio program called "Ideas" ... it looks at the theory that stories are adaptive for our species ... one of the people interviewed goes so far as to say we are misnamed homo sapiens because other species appear to have cognitive abilities, and should better be identified by our more unique characteristic, homo fictus, story-man. I thought of you and your thoughts on imagination while listening. Here's the link to Part I, which mostly deals with non-fiction. Part 2, which I have not yet listened to, will deal with fiction: www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/vestigial-tale-part-1-1.3086744
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Post by freakydeaky on Jun 11, 2015 1:38:23 GMT -5
I looked it up and he presented her with a lifetime achievement award. So, what book/s of hers would you recommend to start with? She has the right attitude - Your art should not be compromised by your desire for sales... freakydeaky (fun name), welcome! I'm not a techie so I'm not sure if the same thing will happen for you, but after I watched the video of Ursula LeGuinn that toramenor posted, I was offered four more related videos and one of them was the presentation of the lifetime achievement award. I also see an interview with Bill Moyers there -- I am probably going to get lost again (n the best way)! toramenor, while watching the video you posted, I was struck by the thought, "Now here is an Elder!" Everybody ages, not everyone becomes an elder with that kind of courage. Thanks for sharing it! Thankyou for the welcome.. Ok, I'll look for that video with Neil Gaiman. An elder, yes, that's exactly what she is, she denotes wisdom, courage, authenticity and a sense of being so centred and grounded..inspiring. I have now purchased The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed. And I'm looking for that film Regarding Susan Sontag now, you've sparked a new interest..
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Post by toramenor on Jun 11, 2015 12:38:48 GMT -5
Thanks for that bit of Fry and Laurie, toramenor -- I'm a fan of both, and have been binge-watching "House" on Netflix periodically over the last year, so very disorienting to see the doctor doing a sort of vaudeville! Love Stephen Fry, too -- have you ever seen his documentary on bipolar? Fascinating, self-reflective stuff. I have seen the documentary - it is great. I have watched pretty much everything I could find that Stephen Fry has ever done. A Bit of Fry and Laurie was a post-Monty Python comedy sketch show that was hugely popular in the UK in the early nineties (it ran for 4 or 5 seasons, I believe). In fact, it has influenced a lot of later British comedians, because it was so original and - well - because Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry are two really funny individuals who play off each other so well and who also happen to be incredibly smart. Take a look at this sketch to see what I mean (I think it is especially suitable for this thread LOL):
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 11, 2015 15:50:23 GMT -5
Thanks for that bit of Fry and Laurie, toramenor -- I'm a fan of both, and have been binge-watching "House" on Netflix periodically over the last year, so very disorienting to see the doctor doing a sort of vaudeville! Love Stephen Fry, too -- have you ever seen his documentary on bipolar? Fascinating, self-reflective stuff. I have seen the documentary - it is great. I have watched pretty much everything I could find that Stephen Fry has ever done. A Bit of Fry and Laurie was a post-Monty Python comedy sketch show that was hugely popular in the UK in the early nineties (it ran for 4 or 5 seasons, I believe). In fact, it has influenced a lot of later British comedians, because it was so original and - well - because Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry are two really funny individuals who play off each other so well and who also happen to be incredibly smart. Take a look at this sketch to see what I mean (I think it is especially suitable for this thread LOL): Oh, I LOVED that -- thank you! Got lost in "related videos" for a bit, too -- wouldn't it have been great if ABC had responded this way after the AMAs? I also watched the Bill Moyers interview with Ursula LeGuin last night -- they talk a lot about "The Lathe of Heaven," which the presenter references at the end of LeGuin's speech that you posted earlier. I may have to pick that one up. She also has some thoughts on characters and gender toward the end of the interview. I confess I'm missing Adam's more overt androgyny these days. I find it interesting that both he and Freddie played a lot with more feminine style and mannerisms early in their careers and then began styling themselves much more classically masculine, muscles 'n' all, in their 30s. Don't know that it "means" anything, just noticed the similar trajectory.
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Post by mirages on Jun 12, 2015 15:29:48 GMT -5
Oh, and since we're doing slightly askew comedy at the moment, here's my favourite routine by my favourite comedian (note that the first few minutes are a little bleak -- it gets funny at about 4:00):
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Post by toramenor on Jun 14, 2015 2:16:00 GMT -5
I also watched the Bill Moyers interview with Ursula LeGuin last night -- they talk a lot about "The Lathe of Heaven," which the presenter references at the end of LeGuin's speech that you posted earlier. I may have to pick that one up. She also has some thoughts on characters and gender toward the end of the interview. I confess I'm missing Adam's more overt androgyny these days. I find it interesting that both he and Freddie played a lot with more feminine style and mannerisms early in their careers and then began styling themselves much more classically masculine, muscles 'n' all, in their 30s. Don't know that it "means" anything, just noticed the similar trajectory. Curious that you're interested in The Lathe of Heaven. If you recall, a few pages back, we talked a lot about dreaming and reality. That's the main theme of this novel! The main character has a special ability to dream "effective dreams", which alter reality. Again, the novel falls into sci-fi, but I think it's more a psychological novel, because it explores human psyche, human nature, etc. It's a really interesting concept. I already told you about The Left Hand of Darkness - androgyny is a very important topic in that novel. Again, Ursula LeGuin imagines a new concept, like a thought experiment: what if people on some planet had no binary male-female gender, but were genderless, both and neither. Ultimately, she forces you to view them as simply human. For me personally, that is exactly how I view people: I don't care if they're male or female - androgyny appeals to me, as well, because it is the outward representation of that idea: that gender is ultimately a social construct and doesn't really exist in humans. Biologically, there are a few differences between male and female sex - not as many as some people think, though - (but let's not forget there are all kinds of intersex people as well - they are neither male nor female, which means this binary does not even exist in biology; it's a false assumption there as well) - and there are even fewer differences (if there are any differences at all) when it comes to "male and female" gender. Because gender is how you feel and identify on the inside. And on the inside, people are much too complex to say: "I am just this one thing", whatever that one thing may be. It's a false assumption that we are all either men or women on the inside and that this is some sort of natural division. First off, I know I don't have just one defining gender inside of my Self, and I don't think I'm unique in this respect - in fact, I don't think it's just a group of people within the LGBTQI population. I think genderlessness exists everywhere, no matter what your sex, what your sexual orientation, what your proclaimed gender may be. I call myself a woman, I self-identify as a woman, but I also know that I am not a woman in my mind. I've always known that my mind is of all genders and none. The mind has no gender, but I can use it to imagine whatever gender I desire. That's probably one of the reasons I'm a writer and I like telling stories, because I can imagine myself in the shoes of any character and I don't have a problem envisioning how would a man deal with this situation? Those kinds of things just don't occur to me. It's absurd to me. My characters are figments of my imagination, they are exactly the way I want them to be and they act according to the personality I've given them. Not according to their gender.
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Post by mirages on Jun 14, 2015 11:25:07 GMT -5
Curious that you're interested in The Lathe of Heaven. If you recall, a few pages back, we talked a lot about dreaming and reality. That's the main theme of this novel! The main character has a special ability to dream "effective dreams", which alter reality. Again, the novel falls into sci-fi, but I think it's more a psychological novel, because it explores human psyche, human nature, etc. It's a really interesting concept. I already told you about The Left Hand of Darkness - androgyny is a very important topic in that novel. Again, Ursula LeGuin imagines a new concept, like a thought experiment: what if people on some planet had no binary male-female gender, but were genderless, both and neither. Ultimately, she forces you to view them as simply human. For me personally, that is exactly how I view people: I don't care if they're male or female - androgyny appeals to me, as well, because it is the outward representation of that idea: that gender is ultimately a social construct and doesn't really exist in humans. Biologically, there are a few differences between male and female sex - not as many as some people think, though - (but let's not forget there are all kinds of intersex people as well - they are neither male nor female, which means this binary does not even exist in biology; it's a false assumption there as well) - and there are even fewer differences (if there are any differences at all) when it comes to "male and female" gender. Because gender is how you feel and identify on the inside. And on the inside, people are much too complex to say: "I am just this one thing", whatever that one thing may be. It's a false assumption that we are all either men or women on the inside and that this is some sort of natural division. First off, I know I don't have just one defining gender inside of my Self, and I don't think I'm unique in this respect - in fact, I don't think it's just a group of people within the LGBTQI population. I think genderlessness exists everywhere, no matter what your sex, what your sexual orientation, what your proclaimed gender may be. I call myself a woman, I self-identify as a woman, but I also know that I am not a woman in my mind. I've always known that my mind is of all genders and none. The mind has no gender, but I can use it to imagine whatever gender I desire. That's probably one of the reasons I'm a writer and I like telling stories, because I can imagine myself in the shoes of any character and I don't have a problem envisioning how would a man deal with this situation? Those kinds of things just don't occur to me. It's absurd to me. My characters are figments of my imagination, they are exactly the way I want them to be and they act according to the personality I've given them. Not according to their gender. I actually stumbled across a Youtube of The Lathe of Heaven last night and got partway into it -- intriguing for a number of reasons including the fact that it was one of the first TV movies and both the musical score and the acting style feel like they come from such a different era. It was too late to finish the whole thing, but I'll get back to it -- sure had vivid dreams after watching it, though -- thankfully, not effective ones! I really want to read The Left Hand of Darkness, but haven't yet been able to find it in an accessible format. I will eventually, though! I both agree and disagree with you on gender. First, I was struck by how much what you said about gender being just one thing about you and not defining you reminded me of Adam's comments about sexual orientation, and I think that's so. I think when someone from the heteronormative community looks at someone outside that community, we assume that it must be such a big thing to be "outside" that it MUST define your experience of all of life ... but we think that about celebrities, too, right? Adam seems determined to tell people that no, he doesn't dress glam all the time, isn't fabulous all the time, has the same friends he always has, and doesn't sleep hanging upside down from a curtain rod -- again, we tend to assume that someone rich and famous has a life defined by those conditions, but the human experience is more similar than dissimilar despite the trappings. Anne Lamott often says that aspiring writers assume that being published will "solve" (or perhaps justify) their lives in some way, but that it isn't so, that being published will just highlight whatever neuroses and insecurities they have all the more ... So, yes, ditto with gender. I recall as a young woman being told more than once that I "think like a man," and at that time (the late 70s and early 80s) that was meant and received as a compliment! I'm still shaking my head over that ... but it relates to what you say about the mind being neither gender. At the same time, I am the mother of one boy and one girl, and they have rocked my original assumptions that gender had more to do with nurture than with nature, and I hear the same thing from most of the other moms of kids of both genders. And that's bearing in mind that my daughter loves video games, manga, Comicon conventions and other typically "boy" stuff and favours sweatpants and a t-shirt pretty much 24/7. I also find the conventional conceptions of masculine and feminism a helpful shorthand if we can dispatch with the biological determinism that sometimes goes along with that ... the helpful part, for me, is in looking at the full range of human potential, looking at where we may need to develop more of this or that aspect of ourselves with a view toward wholeness. I personally tend to sit most naturally in the "passive/receptive" end of the scale often characterized as the feminine, but need to work on being my ability to be more active and initiative. Similar to how I think the Myers Briggs personality types are meant to be used -- they show you your "resting" strengths and tendencies and show you where you might want to develop. I can see, however, that because the feminine has been so under-valued, people might want to move toward a different way of characterizing what were previously conceptualized as masculine and feminine energies.
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