nikki
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Post by nikki on Dec 23, 2014 9:58:45 GMT -5
I'm trying to understand the difference between appropriation and pandering, and Adam's opinion about it, but I can't. He seemed all for cultural appropriation, because he said: "This whole cultural appropriation debate is so 20 years ago. Our cultures r BLENDING. A new, open minded/hearted generation is on the rise." I remember, when he tweeted that, that I wanted to ask him if he would have felt the same if it had been gay culture that was being appropriated. But he keeps silently supporting Azealia Banks, by tweeting here and there about her, who is his friend, in her feud with Iggy Azalea (here is a brief history of it, if you want to know link ), and who is very much against cultural appropriation. And finally, Adam also said, "Anyone find it interesting how straight male Pop stars r pandering to gay audiences lately!? Should we be flattered? Progress or strategy?"(he said it a while ago, but it is incidentally in today's news, and I've been thinking about it since then, so) and some people were up and arms about it. Irrespective of the word he used, 'pandering', I found the most important part of his statement to be the last bit, 'progress or strategy', where he doesn't question the motives of the 'panderers', he's already established them, calling them a strategy, but wondering if their pandering, as morally questionable as it is, could and should be taken for a progress, as in some way it most certainly is. So, Adam is for appropriation, but against pandering?It is clear to me that for Adam, there is a distinct line between these two things, but I just can't seem to see it. Is it about the motives? If you're doing it for strategy, it's pandering, and if you're incorporating other culture's elements into your art for artistic purposes only, it's appropriation? I get it then, if it's true:) aleks, Adam would never support cultural appropriation because it is a negative concept - it basically means a dominant or more powerful culture using various aspects of an oppressed culture's meaningful symbols outside of their context and therefore trivialising them. I think he wrote that tweet about the concept being outdated when Katie Perry was criticised for dressing like a geisha for a performance (I may be wrong there). He is right in one sense about cultures blending, but to say the term is irrelevant is, in my view not giving enough weight to social or political context. Racism, all the 'isms' in fact, are very much alive and kicking and institutionalised (and internalised) economically, politically and culturally. They don't go away simply by deciding to 'move forward'. In fact some could say that these types of statements from Adam, although well-intentioned, come from a perspective of 'white male privilege'. My son likes Iggy so I know a little about the 'feud'. She is partly being labelled as a cultural appropriator because she is seen as unsupportive of African American issues and authentic hip-hop cannot/should not be divorced from its political origins and context of racism and oppression. Eminem faced the same type of criticism. Looked at in a purist sense, someone like Elvis could been seen this way. What about gospel music? Historically all forms of music move beyond their roots/inspirations and in that sense I absolutely get where Adam is coming from in terms of mainstreaming or 'blending'. I'm not sure that Adam is siding with Azalea Banks wholeheartedly. If he is, I have no clue why. She seems to be in some ways the very antithesis of the way he approaches life.
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Post by adamrocks on Dec 23, 2014 10:23:13 GMT -5
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nic42
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Ni l'un ni l'autre, je suis, j'étais et resterai moi
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Post by nic42 on Dec 23, 2014 10:28:16 GMT -5
Adam on appropriation. It started with this tweet: ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. This whole cultural appropriation debate is so 20 years ago. Our cultures r BLENDING. A new, open minded/hearted generation is on the rise. And after the reactions on that one (which were if I remember correctly divided in 'Yeah, Adam!' and 'How would you know how it feels to be apprioprated, being a white male') about 12 hours later he tweeted these: ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. I am so lucky to be part of a circle of fellow artists who are so open and full of love for our respective backgrounds and cultures. ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. There are times I forget (or want to) that there r others that aren't as integrated or progressive. Our experience isn't everyone else's. ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. It's why we are the artists. We love to reference things we find beautiful or badass. The creative impulse is actually very pure. ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. If we focus on all our differences, we stay segregated. Right? ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. I'm an Idealist though.... That's my slant. and MY opinion. Everyone has one. ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. If anyone takes offense- I'm sorry. Not ever my intention. But when did we all get so damn sensitive!? Life's too short! Have fun, be free ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. As an out and proud Gay man, I see LGBT culture appropriated all over the place! Catch phrases and all! Am I upset? No- I think it's fab. ADAM LAMBERT @adamlambert · 6 aug. K I'm off the soapbox. I love us all And then he retweeted this one ADAM LAMBERT heeft geretweet IslandGirl islandgirljams · 6 aug. @adamlambert when it comes from a place of love and celebration, not hate, I think we should rejoice that we can do that
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Post by adamrocks on Dec 23, 2014 10:28:34 GMT -5
The Lambrits @lambritsuk 45s46 seconds ago Going to see Queen + Adam Lambert on NYE? Feel free to meet up here before the show via @jeanjenie twitter.com/jeanjenie/status/547410768602611713 …
Londonbert @jeanjenie Any glamberts wanna join @flyteness1 & I in Prince Albert pub on Victoria street on NY? From 6.30pm and then10min walk to venue @lambritsuk
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Post by adamrocks on Dec 23, 2014 10:34:16 GMT -5
Gelly @14gelly 6m6 minutes ago Staff Favorites of 2014: Onstage events : Queen + Adam Lambert. "It was across-the-board magnificent" www.theday.com/stage/20141223/staff-favorites-of-2014-onstage-events … via @thedayct
Published December 23. 2014 4:00AM
Day staff Publication: The Day
"Staff Favorites of 2014" lists The Day's features staff's favorite releases, programs, events and other moments in the arts and entertainment world. As we can't possibly listen to/see/read/experience everything, we can only call these selections "favorites." Here, staff writers offer their favorite concerts, shows and other theatrical productions staged in 2014.
(QAL mention)
Queen + Adam Lambert, Mohegan Sun Arena, July 25
Since he first appeared as a weirdo contestant on "American Idol," I thought Lambert was perhaps the only singer in the world who could fill in for Freddie Mercury and allow the world-class band Queen to actually carry on. That said, from a personal standpoint, I feared the show would be structured around stinky big hits like "Another One Bites the Dust" and "We Will Rock You." Clearly, they couldn't leave those tunes out - but happily they played a generous set list that referenced all stages of the band's history. It was across-the-board magnificent. - Rick Koster
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murly
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Post by murly on Dec 23, 2014 11:02:25 GMT -5
For me as a non-native speaker, I have turned to the internet to find out what the definition of 'pandering' is. Wikipedia says: "Pandering is the act of expressing one's views in accordance with the likes of a group to which one is attempting to appeal. The term is most notably associated with politics. In pandering, the views one is verbally expressing are merely for the purpose of drawing support up to and including votes and do not necessarily reflect one's personal values." I think the difference for Adam might well lie in that last sentence. 'do not necessarily reflect one's personal values'. If somebody would feel honestly attracted to gay culture, or inspired by it, and uses elements from that culture, it shouldn't be a problem. But when somebody sits in a boardroom and decides to act more 'gay' to sell more of his product, that feels dishonest. For me the difference would indeed be in the motive, and whether somebody is true to him- or herself. I think you expressed this beautifully and perfectly. The sincerity of the artist (or whoever is doing the appropriating) is key.
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Post by Q3 on Dec 23, 2014 11:11:47 GMT -5
Gelly @14gelly 6m6 minutes ago Staff Favorites of 2014: Onstage events : Queen + Adam Lambert. "It was across-the-board magnificent" www.theday.com/stage/20141223/staff-favorites-of-2014-onstage-events … via @thedayct
Published December 23. 2014 4:00AM
Day staff Publication: The Day
"Staff Favorites of 2014" lists The Day's features staff's favorite releases, programs, events and other moments in the arts and entertainment world. As we can't possibly listen to/see/read/experience everything, we can only call these selections "favorites." Here, staff writers offer their favorite concerts, shows and other theatrical productions staged in 2014.
(QAL mention)
Queen + Adam Lambert, Mohegan Sun Arena, July 25
Since he first appeared as a weirdo contestant on "American Idol," I thought Lambert was perhaps the only singer in the world who could fill in for Freddie Mercury and allow the world-class band Queen to actually carry on. That said, from a personal standpoint, I feared the show would be structured around stinky big hits like "Another One Bites the Dust" and "We Will Rock You." Clearly, they couldn't leave those tunes out - but happily they played a generous set list that referenced all stages of the band's history. It was across-the-board magnificent. - Rick Koster
Now this is a quote I want to repeat! "It was across-the-board magnificent." Indeed it was. And frankly, this reviewer is so right! They did AOBTD and WWRY, but those big hits were really not the focus of the show. And that was a pleasant surprise to me. I love Queen, and those two songs are crowd-pleasing, but they were not the most memorable moments of this concert set. Here's hoping we get a couple surprises in the UK I expect the NYE show setlist will be hit-hit-FBG-hit-KQ-STL-hit-hit-LOML-WWTLF-UP-RGaga-CLTCL-BR---- encore: WWRY-WATC-Confetti/GSTQ. Meaning no surprises. I think the UK setlist could have a couple new songs. Fingers crossed that we finally get to hear "You Take My Breath Away".
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dotsgirl02
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Post by dotsgirl02 on Dec 23, 2014 11:29:30 GMT -5
With nothing better to do this am, I wanna ask the pink elephant in the corner of the room question, Where's Adam???? 3,2,1.....
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csquared
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Post by csquared on Dec 23, 2014 11:30:06 GMT -5
Hmmm. Sauli posted a photo on IG about 10 hours ago titled "Jungle" and he's overlooking a jungle...like maybe he's on a Mayan pyramid or something. Inquiring minds... Lol. Pure speculation!
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Post by Q3 on Dec 23, 2014 11:34:09 GMT -5
For me as a non-native speaker, I have turned to the internet to find out what the definition of 'pandering' is. Wikipedia says: "Pandering is the act of expressing one's views in accordance with the likes of a group to which one is attempting to appeal. The term is most notably associated with politics. In pandering, the views one is verbally expressing are merely for the purpose of drawing support up to and including votes and do not necessarily reflect one's personal values." I think the difference for Adam might well lie in that last sentence. 'do not necessarily reflect one's personal values'. If somebody would feel honestly attracted to gay culture, or inspired by it, and uses elements from that culture, it shouldn't be a problem. But when somebody sits in a boardroom and decides to act more 'gay' to sell more of his product, that feels dishonest. For me the difference would indeed be in the motive, and whether somebody is true to him- or herself. I think you expressed this beautifully and perfectly. The sincerity of the artist (or whoever is doing the appropriating) is key. I agree -- when it is real and authentic, it seems different. When it seems like it is a strategy with not authenticity -- "The gay market segment overspends on music. Let's get Jack to do some gay club visits to promote his new album...." But I do not think it is so black and white. Is it OK for a guy musician to show up at a gay club and strip and tease the guys in the audience but not OK for a straight musician to do the same thing? What's the difference? Neither of them is taking everyone in the audience home for the night? Is it OK for a female musician to specifically promote herself to gay fans? Or not? And who determines who is gay in the first place? Is just being open to a gay relationship enough? *** For better or worse, targeting market segments is part of the music business and media -- and has been for decades. Everything from books to movies to broadcast programming to music is targeted either intentionally or organically. I have spent my life targeting products and positioning brands - JIF = moms, Old Spice = young men, HAC Radio = women 25-49 years old, LOGO TV = LGBT viewers, etc. Pop stars produce commercial products that are positioned and targeted. Sam Smith has been everywhere this year because he appeals to a large, mainstream, female music buyer and radio listener -- the ideal target for commercial success and for media/advertisers. The same market as Bruno Mars. Both put out excellent product but there are a lot of other musicians who put out equally good music but do not achieve this success. I have mixed feelings about this. I make my living in marketing and promotion, but I also believe that successful personal brands require some level of authenticity or they are not sustainable.
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