Holst
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Post by Holst on Nov 10, 2012 10:01:10 GMT -5
Thank you cassie and nationalglampoon !!!! I got it Big kisses to you guys A little reminder, just in case someone is curious: A = la ------ E = mi B = ti ------ F = fa C = do ------ G = sol D = re I don't know why I thought that Adam's highest note was on Crawl Thru Fire. Or is it the same note than in Play That Funky Music? [img src=" i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/Quu3/Adam%20Smilys/Other%20Smileys/dunno1.gif"] [/IMG] [/quote] Hi Albiku. Actually, in the US mostly we use what is called "movable do." We don't assign the solfege syllable to specific pitches (letters) but to the steps of the scale. So "do" is the first note of any scale, no matter which pitch name it is. Then re is the second note, and so on. If you switch to a different key, then the first note of that new scale is "do" (hence, movable). What this does is give us the relationships between the steps of a scale instead of letter names. Then we also add the half-steps (semi-tones) using do-di-re-ri-mi-fa-fi-sol-si-la-li-ti-do. I don't know if Europeans do that also. I can never keep track of quavers, semi-quavers, etc. I know the UK uses that nomenclature, but I don't know about the rest of Europe. We use different names for rhythms in the US.
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Post by cassie on Nov 10, 2012 11:07:23 GMT -5
[/IMG] [/quote] Hi Albiku. Actually, in the US mostly we use what is called "movable do." We don't assign the solfege syllable to specific pitches (letters) but to the steps of the scale. So "do" is the first note of any scale, no matter which pitch name it is. Then re is the second note, and so on. If you switch to a different key, then the first note of that new scale is "do" (hence, movable). What this does is give us the relationships between the steps of a scale instead of letter names. Then we also add the half-steps (semi-tones) using do-di-re-ri-mi-fa-fi-sol-si-la-li-ti-do. I don't know if Europeans do that also. I can never keep track of quavers, semi-quavers, etc. I know the UK uses that nomenclature, but I don't know about the rest of Europe. We use different names for rhythms in the US.[/quote] Thanks, music teacher Holst, for clarifying the difference between solfege in Europe and the US. The little I knew about the system, it was used to teach melodies and harmonies to people who didn't read music and didn't have formal music theory background. With that "movable do" system, the teacher could say, "Mary, sing do. Jane, sing mi, and John, sing the sol below do." Voile, you have a chord, no matter what the key. That is why albiku, I was confused when you asked to identify notes by solfege. Music may be universal, but how we identify it, categorize it and describe it varies more than I realized. Fun to learn new stuff.
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Holst
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Post by Holst on Nov 10, 2012 18:10:34 GMT -5
Hi Albiku. Actually, in the US mostly we use what is called "movable do." We don't assign the solfege syllable to specific pitches (letters) but to the steps of the scale. So "do" is the first note of any scale, no matter which pitch name it is. Then re is the second note, and so on. If you switch to a different key, then the first note of that new scale is "do" (hence, movable). What this does is give us the relationships between the steps of a scale instead of letter names. Then we also add the half-steps (semi-tones) using do-di-re-ri-mi-fa-fi-sol-si-la-li-ti-do. I don't know if Europeans do that also. I can never keep track of quavers, semi-quavers, etc. I know the UK uses that nomenclature, but I don't know about the rest of Europe. We use different names for rhythms in the US. Thanks, music teacher Holst, for clarifying the difference between solfege in Europe and the US. The little I knew about the system, it was used to teach melodies and harmonies to people who didn't read music and didn't have formal music theory background. With that "movable do" system, the teacher could say, "Mary, sing do. Jane, sing mi, and John, sing the sol below do." Voile, you have a chord, no matter what the key. That is why albiku, I was confused when you asked to identify notes by solfege. Music may be universal, but how we identify it, categorize it and describe it varies more than I realized. Fun to learn new stuff. I was a good sight singer in high school, but did not learn solfege until college. Our ear training classes were taught by an amazing "old school" music teacher who drilled us hard and with a bit of fear in us (we learned he was actually a decent guy and put on this act). Anyways, learning to be fluent in solfege helped my violin playing as well. Cassie, you probably can relate to the feeling of being lost up high on the violin fingerboard--no frets. It's kind of like playing by interval up there, and if you can hear the next sound before you play it--much easier. Love solfege and teach it at school. I'm amazed at how 3rd and 4th graders (8-10 years old) catch on. They enjoy the challenge of it.
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Post by Craazyforadam on Nov 11, 2012 22:41:43 GMT -5
Wow, thanks guys, I am learning so much. So many ways to describe the same thing.
And thanks Cassie for your response to my BE question. I don't think that people are actually aware how unusual it is what Adam is doing, because he makes it sound so simple.
I always find that trying to sing along with Adam helps to get a healthy respect for what he truly does, but obviously that does not quite work in public - or a concert environment.
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Albiku
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Post by Albiku on Nov 12, 2012 20:04:46 GMT -5
Hello, Holst!
Well, I genuinely had no idea about the movable do system. lol It's fun to learn new things. I will definitely try to learn more about it. In Spain, we use do, re, mi, sol, la, and si (not ti) to name fixed notes. That's what my solfege teachers taught me, and that's what I've always used. When I did music dictations I had to recognize the correct notes and write them exactly as they were in the original score.
My main instrument is piano, and I've always used piano scores, so I didn't get to learn about the letters C, D, E, F, G, A and B until I started learning guitar. And I had to match those letters to my own system of solfege syllables so that it would make sense to me. I didn't realize it wouldn't make sense to people using other systems.
(I hope I'm explaining myself properly. It's hard to use technical language in another language, I don't know if I'm using the proper words half the time... lol)
Cassie, I think it was Kamar who asked for the solfege notes, that's why I wrote the syllables and their corresponding letters. I guess she uses the fixed do system too?
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Post by cassie on Nov 12, 2012 21:11:19 GMT -5
Hello, Holst! Well, I genuinely had no idea about the movable do system. lol It's fun to learn new things. I will definitely try to learn more about it. In Spain, we use do, re, mi, sol, la, and si (not ti) to name fixed notes. That's what my solfege teachers taught me, and that's what I've always used. When I did music dictations I had to recognize the correct notes and write them exactly as they were in the original score. My main instrument is piano, and I've always used piano scores, so I didn't get to learn about the letters C, D, E, F, G, A and B until I started learning guitar. And I had to match those letters to my own system of solfege syllables so that it would make sense to me. I didn't realize it wouldn't make sense to people using other systems. (I hope I'm explaining myself properly. It's hard to use technical language in another language, I don't know if I'm using the proper words half the time... lol) Cassie, I think it was Kamar who asked for the solfege notes, that's why I wrote the syllables and their corresponding letters. I guess she uses the fixed do system too? Interesting stuff! Music is universal, but its description and notation certainly is not. I started with piano, also, but learned the alphabet names for the keys and the notes on a score. That was engraved on my brain, for good and for bad. I can read the treble and bass clefs easily, but when I tried playing viola with a different clef I would get so confused. Perhaps if I had read the notes as intervals as in solfege instead of absolute notes, it would have been easier to transition. If you play a C on the piano and then ask me to sing any other note based on that one (i.e. sing the G below, or the Bb above) I can do that without thinking. But if you say "sing the major third, or sing "la", I have to do a mental translation into the letters I know. "Let's see, major third. C, D, E, there you go!" "La, you say? Okay. [hums softly to myself the scale from The Sound of Music... do, re, mi, fa, so la.... oh! You wanted me to sing an A. Why didn't you say so?] The ability to "hear", sing or identify any pitch after getting a base pitch is called "relative pitch." What is rarer is "perfect pitch"; the ability to identify any pitch without a reference point, or to sing/hum a pitch without a reference point. My ear falls somewhere in between. Relative pitch is a piece of cake. Identifying or singing a pitch with no references I can come close; usually within a quarter or half step if not spot on. Again, this is a blessing and a curse. I'm a pretty fierce sight reader without having to rely on instrumental accompaniment. But, I cannot NOT hear things that are off pitch. and, I cannot read a melody line written in the key of C, for example, but sing it in the key of A (which my church choir director used to do regularly, using his electronic keyboard to alter the key of the song). Fascinating how we all hear and process music differently, even when we think we are talking about the same experience.
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Post by butterknife on Nov 12, 2012 23:22:23 GMT -5
Hi, ya...
I've got a question, actually it's been bugging me for a while.
Why do professional singers (even a vocal master like Adam) some times get pitch problems singing live? Big Thanks!
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Post by cassie on Nov 13, 2012 13:38:05 GMT -5
Hi, ya... I've got a question, actually it's been bugging me for a while. Why do professional singers (even a vocal master like Adam) some times get pitch problems singing live? Big Thanks! Great question. Several answers. First of all, it is not because they don't have a good enough ear to sing on pitch. Well, let me modify that. Professional, trained singers who reach some acclaim because of their talent and not because they are the pop star for a day, have the ability to hear when something is off pitch. One reason for pitch problems is a lack of vocal technique and breath support. But, a pro should be beyond that, generally. However, singing a note on pitch requires very subtle, exact adjustments of muscles in the head, mouth, neck, and torso. It is possible to just miss the mark slightly with those adjustments. When you play the piano, if you hit the right key, the note is automatically on pitch. When you play guitar, if you put your finger in between two frets (bars that contact the strings and determine the note) and if your instrument is in tune, the note is automatically on pitch. With singing, there are no pre-established keys or frets or markers to engage to sing the pitch perfectly. Your body has to know how to make the tiny adjustments of muscles to hit precisely the right pitch. So, if you hear an occasional flat or sharp note with everything else being on, it is probably just a tiny bit too much air, or the vocal cords tightened or loosened just a smidge too much. If the singer is particularly stressed or nervous, or even just distracted, their accuracy can be affected. A second, less well known reason, is that one's voice sounds different from inside the body and outside. When you change the shape of your mouth, for example, you may change how the pitch sounds to you. You also hear/feel resonance differently from the inside out. So, inside your body, as you sing, the pitch may sound accurate. But, if you later listen to a recording of the singing, it may sound "off." It has something to do with sound wave lengths, harmonics, resonance, etc. But, the most common reason by far is that the singer cannot hear: either cannot hear the backing instruments they rely on for pitch, or cannot hear their own voice over the loud instrumentation. If you cannot clearly hear the cuing instruments, it is like shooting at a target you cannot see and hoping to hit the bullseye from memory. If you cannot hear your own voice, it is like being unable to see where your shot hits the target. When Adam has been notably off key, it is almost always because he cannot hear his voice, either in the ear monitors or the stage monitors. This is extremely disturbing for a singer, because it is totally out of their control. There is nothing they can do to "fix" the problem. It is in the hands of the sound technicians or in the quality of the sound equipment. I'm sure you have seen Adam frequently fidgeting with his monitors; taking one or both out, putting them back in, putting them half-way in. When he takes one or both out, it is because he cannot hear his voice in them, and is hoping to hear it better from the stage monitors. (You may also see him do this if he wants to hear the audience. One monitor in for the sound onstage, one out to hear the sound in the audience.) You also will see him motion to the sound tech to change the settings on the stage monitors. if he isn't getting the sound he needs to monitor his own voice. But, if the equipment is faulty or the tech is not capable, Adam is screwed. Since his voice is his trademark and his livelihood, it is no wonder he gets pissed when this happens. The sound tech has to be the worst job in the Adam world. He is meticulous about getting the sound right. Hope that answers your question?
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Post by bridgeymah on Nov 13, 2012 23:43:03 GMT -5
I believe the scale in Fame that starts at about .56 deserves some dissection in masterclass... thoughts (other then WTF wow which was pretty much my reaction)... Fame Published on Nov 13, 2012 by hottramp
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Post by cassie on Nov 14, 2012 0:56:46 GMT -5
I believe the scale in Fame that starts at about .56 deserves some dissection in masterclass... thoughts (other then WTF wow which was pretty much my reaction)... Fame Published on Nov 13, 2012 by hottramp Isn't that fun to listen to? If anyone wants a very quick example of a solid two octave range in a singer, just play those few seconds for them. (Then add that Adam can sing another five notes higher that the starting note, and five notes lower than the ending note.) The other remarkable thing about it is the consistency of his tone throughout. Singers have natural breaks in their voice when they have to shift from low chest to chest to mixed to head voice. Most of the time, those shifts are noticeable because the tone changes significantly. Adam is known for having no noticeable "break" in his voice.... meaning that the tone sounds the same all the way up or down the scale. Most pop singers today could not sing that series of notes, period, much less sing them with such consistent tone. It is jaw dropping to folks used to the pop singer's voice. On the other hand, serious, classically trained singers would say, "Nice job. But that is what we all can do. I wouldn't expect anything else from a highly trained professional vocalist. He's just basically singing a two octave scale." Ah, the difference between being a pop singer and being a legitimate, trained vocalist. (And, please, don't jump on me with examples of other pop singers who can do the same thing or accuse me of being a snob about properly trained singers. I am not saying that one style is BETTER than another, or one singer is BETTER than another. I'm commenting on the amount and type of training different singers have in order to be able to sing in the style they do. Which voice you prefer has to do with your personal taste. Juicy grilled cheeseburger, or prime rib medium rare, or broiled lobster tail. Which is better?)
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