aloha
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Post by aloha on Jan 22, 2012 5:37:31 GMT -5
Hi, Cassie.
Did you know there's a tradition of falsetto in Hawaiian music?
there are even competitions... it's a respected and even revered technique in Hawaii. Entire familes are famous for it.
Here are two examples from one of the best-- Dennis Pavao.
I sometimes prefer the lighter, more modern voice of Ledward Kaapana.. but he basically sticks to the tradition with a classic sound.
So now my question-- we call this Hawaiian Falsetto.
Are these singers actually using head voice? Or a blending of the two?
(If so, damn. they're going to have to change the name of the competitions. Hawaiian head voice festival. Yikes)
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Post by cassie on Jan 22, 2012 11:19:08 GMT -5
Hi, Cassie. Did you know there's a tradition of falsetto in Hawaiian music? there are even competitions... it's a respected and even revered technique in Hawaii. Entire familes are famous for it. Here are two examples from one of the best-- Dennis Pavao. I sometimes prefer the lighter, more modern voice of Ledward Kaapana.. but he basically sticks to the tradition with a classic sound. So now my question-- we call this Hawaiian Falsetto. Are these singers actually using head voice? Or a blending of the two? (If so, damn. they're going to have to change the name of the competitions. Hawaiian head voice festival. Yikes) First off, let me do the disclaimer. Falsetto vs. head voice is not my area of expertise. When I was studying voice, I was working on chest and head voice and transitioning smoothly between. Didn't touch falsetto. I don't think most women do. But, in any case I never got to that lesson, if it exists in classical training. I hadn't thought of Hawaiian music but, playing the samples, I went, "Of course." I don't think you have to change the name of the style. The last two definitely sounded like falsetto. On the first, at the beginning, where he is singing a lot of notes with an "oooooo" vowel, it sounded fuller, and I thought, "probably head voice." Then later, with the more open vowels I shifted my opinion. So, the first one might be a combination, but I vote for falsetto on the last two. For those of you who want to know what we mean when we talk about hearing a "break" in the voice, these are perfect examples. It seems to be a characteristic of this music to have a very prominent flip between chest and head voice. The lower notes sound completely different and you can hear the shift clearly. Thanks for sharing. |
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Post by cassie on Jan 22, 2012 11:42:25 GMT -5
ETA: I remember reading somewhere that classical music notation severely limited musical creativity as it lead to rigidity in musical development. When you limit "music" to only what can be represented by notation structures you limit creativity. Also many primitive music styles do not lend themselves to strict notation. Even things like the blues and jazz are not well served by notation as the limits of notation structures do not truly allow for proper representation of the music. Well, music notation is certainly based on western music conventions and modes. There are a limited number of absolute pitches. It has to be either this note or that note. There is no good way to show "bending" a note, or swooping up or down to a note. If you are familiar with a piano, the notes, black and white keys, are all a half step away from one another. You cannot slide up from one note to the other. You cannot make the sound of a siren, swooping up and down. You can only go up and down in half tone increments. Music notation has the same limitations. Therefore, it cannot accurately represent the bending, scooping, sliding notes of blues, jazz or country. Do you recall how Scotty sang on AI? He was constantly sliding from one note to the other. Non-western music also uses pitches that the western ear does not recognize. These are pitches "in between the notes", so higher than a C, but not as high as a C#. To the western ear, it sounds like the note is out of tune, either sharp or flat. But it is properly pitched in that style of music. |
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Post by rihannsu on Jan 22, 2012 12:58:41 GMT -5
ETA: I remember reading somewhere that classical music notation severely limited musical creativity as it lead to rigidity in musical development. When you limit "music" to only what can be represented by notation structures you limit creativity. Also many primitive music styles do not lend themselves to strict notation. Even things like the blues and jazz are not well served by notation as the limits of notation structures do not truly allow for proper representation of the music. Well, music notation is certainly based on western music conventions and modes. There are a limited number of absolute pitches. It has to be either this note or that note. There is no good way to show "bending" a note, or swooping up or down to a note. If you are familiar with a piano, the notes, black and white keys, are all a half step away from one another. You cannot slide up from one note to the other. You cannot make the sound of a siren, swooping up and down. You can only go up and down in half tone increments. Music notation has the same limitations. Therefore, it cannot accurately represent the bending, scooping, sliding notes of blues, jazz or country. Do you recall how Scotty sang on AI? He was constantly sliding from one note to the other. Non-western music also uses pitches that the western ear does not recognize. These are pitches "in between the notes", so higher than a C, but not as high as a C#. To the western ear, it sounds like the note is out of tune, either sharp or flat. But it is properly pitched in that style of music. Exactly and I seem to remember Adam commenting once about liking middle eastern music plus he studied Jazz and sang in Jazz competitions in high school so he has a really broad musical knowledge base and combines styles and method in really unexpected ways. That doesn't make them wrong the way Greg seems to be implying. Now he's kind of putting it off saying he's not dissing Adam just that he was asked to comment and blaming the fact that OTT fan boys/girls piss him off. But his acting like Queen fans don't engage in the same kind of bullshit trashing is just ridiculous. ALL artists have fans that savage other artists abilities in comments online. There are NO fan bases that can say this does not happen. The boy just does not understand things that don't fit inside boxes. |
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Holst
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Post by Holst on Jan 23, 2012 22:13:45 GMT -5
Thank you. I thought he was full of shit but although I pick up things here and there I don't actually KNOW enough to be sure. I read an analysis of Ring of Fire that said he sang it in the Phrygian(?) scale and that was a middle eastern style vocal that Western singers usually aren't able to execute well. Wish I could remember where I saw that. It was done to show that while he might have used Dilana's musical arrangement the vocal arrangement was absolutely NOTHING like her vocal. Adam's ease in this scale is one of the things I went nuts over during AI, and even GNL CD. After hearing his AI version, I was convinced that he must have had some serious music training. I didn't know anything about him at that point. |
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Holst
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Post by Holst on Jan 23, 2012 22:31:42 GMT -5
Cassie, regarding head vs. chest.
As I teach kids at school, it's important to have them learn the difference between head and chest voice at an early age. Many kids who "can't carry a tune well" actually just haven't found their head voice so they can't sing higher in comfort. I'm not a vocal expert, but have gotten teaching tips from those who are. One strategy is to have the kids (or adults) wimper like a puppy. If you close your lips and do that high wimper sound, that is head voice. Of course it is easy to demonstrate this, maybe not as easy to talk about. Then I get the kids to part the lips so they are doing the "oo" vowel, which, as you have mentioned, is easier for head voice than "ah." Gradually, most of them get it figured out. However, some kids need reminders to "find" or "remember to use" their head voice.
As you know, many people can find it easily, but for others it is a totally freaky feeling. Then sometimes I talk to them using head voice, which sounds like a really pretentious opera singer. They all giggle and get the idea as they try it themselves.
I also demonstrate trying to sing high in my chest voice. Of course it gets shouty and hurts my chords. They all plug their ears. Hello Steven Tyler's SSB. (Did you read any of the comments on the YouTube or other vids of that. People saying he did a great job because that's how he sings and he is a rocker. WUT!?!?!)
DONE!
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jan 26, 2012 15:00:15 GMT -5
Cassie... I need your analysis of this acoustic WWL from a previous AI-11 contestant I am no critic but comparing to Adam's version (which is like a million :D) this guy's version, although with a booming voice, reminds me of a person who talks in monologue  ... may talk slowly or sometimes "shouty" but seems to just channeling internally and just concentrating into producing how "I have to reach the high notes" instead of delivering the message to the audience that "I have a whole lot of love to give" like what Adam conveys in his delivery or maybe I am just biased when it comes to Adam....  |
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Post by marie23 on Jan 26, 2012 15:41:46 GMT -5
Cassie I was just listening to this song online, after a discussion with a friend on twitter regarding big voiced belters. I was just wondering what you view on this was. When I was listening, even though I enjoyed her voice, I think she was singing in a way to emphasize or showcase her voice in all it's dynamics, whether it was a belt, high note, or just subtle runs, more so than trying to interpret the song and it's meaning. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on this.
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Post by cassie on Jan 26, 2012 17:24:53 GMT -5
Cassie... I need your analysis of this acoustic WWL from a previous AI-11 contestant I am no critic but comparing to Adam's version (which is like a million :D) this guy's version, although with a booming voice, reminds me of a person who talks in monologue ... may talk slowly or sometimes "shouty" but seems to just channeling internally and just concentrating into producing how "I have to reach the high notes" instead of delivering the message to the audience that "I have a whole lot of love to give" like what Adam conveys in his delivery or maybe I am just biased when it comes to Adam.... Yeah, I get what u mean. The actual formal composition of the song is VERY basic. Two chords and five notes. with the right interpretation it can be fiery or sultry or raunchy. But if the singer only goes for reproducing the notes, it is BOOOOORRRRRING. Left me cold. |
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Post by cassie on Jan 26, 2012 17:43:07 GMT -5
Cassie I was just listening to this song online, after a discussion with a friend on twitter regarding big voiced belters. I was just wondering what you view on this was. When I was listening, even though I enjoyed her voice, I think she was singing in a way to emphasize or showcase her voice in all it's dynamics, whether it was a belt, high note, or just subtle runs, more so than trying to interpret the song and it's meaning. I was just wondering what your thoughts were on this. Honestly? To quote someone, "Pure, indigent rubbish.". She sings it so slowly, with so many embellishments, I lose all track of what the song is saying. Yes, it shows off her voice. But, it is almost a parody of singing a heartfelt love song. Talk about OTT! It reminds me of James Brown, singing with such "passion" that he fell to the ground and had to be helped off the stage only to revive, break away from his helper, and come back to sing another impassioned verse, then collapse again. PUHLEEEEZ. But, I guess that is the style. The audience seemed to love it. I just wanted her to get the hell done with it. To each their own. (and the girl sure did push her voice a lot. You can clearly hear the force behind some note, and the way her voice almost cracks. No wonder she has no voice left.) |
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... may talk slowly or sometimes "shouty" but seems to just channeling internally and just concentrating into producing how "I have to reach the high notes" instead of delivering the message to the audience that "I have a whole lot of love to give" like what Adam conveys in his delivery 
