csimms4
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Post by csimms4 on Dec 12, 2015 0:39:32 GMT -5
That's down right balmy for us in the north - I'll take the rain over snow any day. This time last year Buffalo was closed down due to record breaking snowfall Trust me when I say, anything under 60 will feel cold for our California guy! ❤️ Trust me when I say, we can keep him warm
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Post by Jablea on Dec 12, 2015 0:44:33 GMT -5
Hindsight really is 20/20. I understand the interest and fun in speculation - esp why not Shady. But one thing to remember - for the sake of sound critical reasoning and peaceful coexistence - is that no one knows 'what would have happened if...' It would have been a hit if and it could never have been a hit because are all theoretical and involve so many factors - known and unknown/unknowable. Look at the range of opinion among hardcore fans about the single selections for TOH -- and label execs face the same variations in taste and market factors but generally with more data and experience (and the pressure to turn a profit). Could Shady have been a radio hit at the time of Trespassing's release? Maybe, but it would have taken very creative marketing and one or more big 'boost the signal' opportunities (movie, tv, commercial placement or the right tv performance(s)). Blurred Lines startled a lot of people when radio really picked it up -- a singer with not much of a pop track record and a very retro sounding song. See wiki and related articles - everyone involved recognized the challenge. wiki cites comments by Thicke's mgr claiming credit for the strategy of creating a video so controversial the song would get played - a foot in the radio door - for that reason alone. There's less documentation but that was clearly the same thinking in adding T.I. and his verses - to tack on (controversial) rap verses to a retro r&b song to give it more contemporary edge and bring in T.I.'s urban audience -- to make it more familiar to radio. this groundwork had been laid for the voice performance (which happened because of yet more specific factors). Uptown Funk - Read anything about Mark Ronson writing Uptown Funk and none of it was easy. Ronson is great but Bruno has a greater genius for hooks and is as likable to the pop listening public as Thicke is not - ha. Bruno had already leveraged his mainstream pop success (as songwriter and performer) to move towards a more retro aesthetic and sound per his own taste. Without Bruno's adds to the song (like his vocal line that nails the bottom of the song) and especially his 'bankability' as a pop star, it is unlikely the song would have just detonated the way it did - streaming or no. Just as some actors can open pretty much any genre of film - Bruno was in that position for UF - and it is pure earworm. (Group dances, school performances, you tube covers, dude on treadmill (that was impressive), Glee - really it just needed a toe in the door.) So why not Shady? I personally am glad that Adam and his mgmt did not use the (imo) unsavory techniques that Thicke and company used. And while Blurred Lines remains catchy - Thicke was tainted by backlash against the song- instead his subsequent personal behavior nailed that impression down. So watch what price you pay to get in the door I guess. Do I think there were creative ways to get Shady to an audience? Maybe? Esp if it had been the first single and gotten the tv performance slots BTIKM- but I have depressing doubts that (3years ago) Adam (as opposed to straight, married soon to be sleaze Thicke) could have gotten the same positive open arms reaction to a funk song about cruising. As his first follow up to FYE and the AMA memory (a first single about overt sexuality), both radio and tv might have balked. And as the second single, without the magic variables I mentioned up top, an out of left field genre had less chance of getting played on radio after BTIKM underperformed. In any event, I can see the label being wary - it would have taken vision, courage and risk taking by everyone. Random Runnin' comment. JMHO but I kind of think if Adam liked Runnin' he would sing it - if he doesn't like the album arrangement that's easily remedied. I too like the song a lot but it does sound like an older pop/rock track. For GNT tour, Adam put bonus tracks front and center (wisely imo) - I think he would have done same with Runnin' if he wanted - but again who knows what might be in play there for Adam. I know we like to feel we have definitive answers but really we have heartfelt speculation and that's fun too. (Hey, there are already decisions with this era I'm puzzled by - but I as much as it bugs me sometimes (a lot lol), I do try to remember that I don't know what discussions/opportunities have (or have not) been on the table.) ETA: Yeah, I don't think the idea that young girls wouldn't sing along is a factor. I'm not sure if the issue is sexual content or orientation, but I don't think young girls care that he's gay and as for sex/gender - they sang along with Blurred Lines, 99 Problems, Get Lucky, S&M (so good) and (my fave) Talking Body-- I like to sing along with that one and realized just in time one day with passengers that was not a good idea lol. Yeah that! I've never been on the Shady for single band wagon. I like the background story of it and contacting Niles etc and there's parts I like to sing. But then it's not the song I skip on the album which happens to be another fan favorite which just grates for me....Kickin In. shhhh don't tell anyone.
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3ku1
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Post by 3ku1 on Dec 12, 2015 0:50:46 GMT -5
I loved Trespassing, one of my fav pop albums of the past decade. RUNNIN that is all :D. Kickin IN was my fav track on the album, very Timberlake. I don't think Shady was intended for pop radio. It should of been, it is undiscovered radio gold. RCA choices for singles, was like watching Benny Hill. It was hilariously bad. I mean BTIKM, a standard Claude Kelly Pop Track, outdated. An angsty ballad. Then they go NCEO, a more uplifting song. Then they go Trespassing. And they never promoted Trespassing once. The lead single should of been Trespassing. Send Adams creative and mission statement right off the bat. Then I would of gone Naked Love, then Cuckoo. Simple to be honest. RCA stifled Adam, and I am thrilled Adam is with a label to understand and get him.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 0:57:41 GMT -5
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Post by Q3 on Dec 12, 2015 1:08:25 GMT -5
"Shady" was never intended for and was not written for pop radio. It was not even one of the four tracks they tested for single #2 which included Adam's picks: Cuckoo, Naked Love, Trespassing and NCOE. NCOE was the only track that had any interest from radio programmers and that was partly because Bruno Mars wrote it -- and he was the biggest artist in the world in 2013-2014. Question. If I remember you had an contact that knew they tested the four tracks on Trespassing. Is that because the label had no confidence? From TOH it seems that Warner didn't bother to test anything, they knew which one. Perhaps because of Max Martin? Just wondering your take on how radio "testing" was different for the two albums. It is not unusual for a major label to test songs. Radio programmers also do consumer research -- the most public form of radio station testing is callouts (phone surveys in the market area) and online listener panels. With iTunes and Streaming Data and social media sentiment analysis (other ways to ID what is popular), radio stations are doing less song testing. The major labels rarely do any testing -- they just do streaming and online buzz measurement. It is pretty easy to see which songs are popular with the target audience, and which are not. MY GUESS based on the bits that Adam revealed in interviews -- RCA and Adam did not agree about which song should be the second single from Trespassing. (The first single, BTIKM, was picked as the lead single by RCA A&R before it was recorded -- early in 2011.) There was some testing and also Adam went coast-to-coast playing 4 songs and talking to major PDs -- the rumors are that Adam wanted Cuckoo or Trespassing to be single #2. The were the same 4 tracks in the test and the radio station visits -- Cuckoo, NL, Trespassing and NCOE. >> Adam and RCA had a strategic disagreement long before he started working on Trespassing -- they wanted WWFM #2, #3 and #4 from him. That is not what Adam had in mind and that is not what he delivered. I would be shocked if there was any song testing of TOH by Warner -- if there was, it was so far below the radar it made no ripple. Adam and WB appear to be on the same page. Adam is playing a smarter game and WB is being really supportive. Also MY GUESS is Max Martin had a 2-promoted-single guarantee. On final thing about the Trespassing era -- I do not blame RCA, I blame 19 Management. Adam was pretty much on his own strategically -- artist's need great management to succeed and stay successful. Adam had great management now.
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Post by Q3 on Dec 12, 2015 1:23:34 GMT -5
The hook in Shady is obvious to me! It's the "Turn it up turn it turn it way up! Cuz I'm feeling so Shady lately!" Great sing along part! Hand in the air, finger pointing up! You know, like we do when Adam does it live at concerts! ETA: I never believed RCA actually tested the 4 tracks with a big enough sampling of PDs. And, IMO, the proof is 1) If they had, then the chosen one, NCOE, would have gotten played! And 2) We now know a lot more about what was happening with RCA and Adam then, and the politics. He pretty much said in the UK Metro, they did not pick the singles he wanted. Although, it was kind of obvious seeing as they picked 2 of only 3 songs he did not write! :( RCA would not have tested songs to prove anything to PDs -- not how it works. PDs get their own data and do their own in-market testing. Labels sometimes test songs to pick the best single. As a posted above, Spotify and iTunes and social media sentiment etc have made this practice obsolete but it was used in 2011-2012. Something that seems to have been forgotten -- BTIKM cost RCA a lot of money. When BTIKM got a modest response, they spent a lot of money on NCOE. Neither are great songs, but this was not something done without a lot of thought. RCA may have been braindead but they were not cheap and they did not just dump the album and run. I am just glad that Adam is with a label that seems to get him, has good management and has a new album filled with great songs -- including TOH my all-time favorite song.
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3ku1
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Post by 3ku1 on Dec 12, 2015 1:37:00 GMT -5
It's no coincidence that the strongest songs on the album. Trespassing, Naked Love, Cuckoo. Were all written by Adam. I wonder how different it would of been if he released Trespassing with WB. I agree though I don't blame RCA. 19 E had a bigger part. RCA just struggled to market someone like Adam. From what I hear though RCA tend to stifle their artists.
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Post by sizzling63 on Dec 12, 2015 1:45:53 GMT -5
Adam,RCA and Trespassing..I just remember the album being months late coming out.. There was lots of interest by the public and then the WAIT, frustrating fans and others.. to top that off RCA did little to promote the album after it finally came out.. So they gave Adam a heads up to executive produce and then took the power away from him and didn't use his own fabulous songs for singles.To add insult to injury.. His style of innovative ,but retro music ,like Shady ,was used by others who ruled the charts and won all kinds of awards,Grammy included... Adam was promoting Trespassing,basically by himself..Running from radio station to radio station trying to get the singles he didn't write played.. This with little success. This was his baby totally and I remember how proud Adam was of this album and IMHO he was devastated . I think Trespassing has classic album written all over it.. I hope it will be rediscovered.When I think about how RCA treated Adam I just want to scream . IMHO ,if I had to take a guess I believe' There I said It 'is a throwing the mic is his FU to RCA..I'm sure many people have been screwed one way or another in their life times.. so Universal theme..:( You are me! Every single time I hear Shady, I want to slap everyone that works for RCA, that ever worked for RCA and that will work for them in the future. When he performs Shady now, it feels like it was a big single. That's quite gratifying but heartbreaking as well.
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Post by Q3 on Dec 12, 2015 1:59:45 GMT -5
New thread is up!!
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Post by sizzling63 on Dec 12, 2015 2:02:08 GMT -5
I am just curious -- what circa 2013 radio format do the "Shady-should-have-been-a-radio-single" think "Shady" actually belonged on? I would file that one with "Sleepwalker" -- fan fav that was not suitable for radio. Singles are a matter of timing. Trespassing had very radio-friendly tracks -- none released as singles -- for example: "Cuckoo" and "Naked Love." Biggest missed opportunity from Trespassing -- IMHO -- was "Runnin'." Look at the iTunes history and streaming data -- continues to be popular even now. And it was a bonus track!! Didn't Adam himself admit that he fu**ed up with Runnin? He made it a bonus track as he "didn't like it". Hard to believe.
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