Practice Thread

Just a practice post - prep for daily thread:

Here we go. And for those who don’t care about our instrument – songwriter discussion,
SKIPPIDY, DIPPIDY, DOO DAH!!!

 First of all, thanks for all your responses and for making this a civil discussion, in spite of the fact that many of you are disagreeing with me. Great discussion. So, here is my response to all the points that were made. Or at least I hope I got them all, lol.

Artist: Nobody doubts that Adam is an artist. I also don’t think anyone here said that, but there were a ton of people arguing the point that Adam IS indeed an artist, so clearly many assumed that somebody had written something to the contrary. Outside of some silly comment section or on twitter, I don’t know where that would come from. I certainly never read it here. Of course Adam is an artist, duh! So, no, I have not completely lost my marbles.

Musician: Of course Adam is a musician. You can study vocals at any music school. Adam is a master at that, even without a formal degree. I think the mix-up commonly is, that folks without that knowledge assume that the word ‘musician’ refers to somebody who plays an instrument and forget about vocals as a possible instrument. This is more a problem of common speech versus technically correct speech.

Musicality: Again a different thing. Adam obviously is extremely gifted in that department. He has a GREAT ear. He goes about working out his performances quite instinctively and he is gifted when it comes to

- rhythmic instincts and accuracy,

- tonal skills, (picking up a melody, singing harmony, pitch control and correction)

- interpretative skills (musical lines, lyrical interpretation, projection, dynamics, etc)

- technical vocal skills (headvoice use, register slides, enunciation, etc)

- memory, ability to learn a song quickly 

 If Adam wanted to just be a vocalist and performer, the whole discussion would be a mute point. Given his brilliance at that, it would be a fantastic and very much an artistic career. The comparison with Angelina fails at exactly this point. Angelina is an opera singer, a vocalist. She does not try to be an opera composer. If she wanted to be a composer, would she need to know some basics on let’s say the piano? Of course she would.

Within song-writing. If Adam wanted to be knows as lyricist, i.e. like Elton John’s partner, sure, that would work too. He would not need the instrument.

Now comes the part where it matters, imo. Obviously, Adam can sing a melody to himself, work out the lyrics and then meet up with folks, present his melody and lyrics and they can work it out from there. Some people might do that. But Adam clearly has indicated that this is not how it works for him. He starts writing with someone else right away, does not develop a song by just
singing to himself.

Somebody earlier responded to me. Too many songs today are written by committee. I say, exactly!
And right now, Adam is forced to be one of them. He song-writes by committee. And his songs totally show that they are
written by committee, if you ask me.  They are the confluence of multiple ideas. Compromises are good, rarely do they result in something that is genius. 

If Brian May and Freddie Mercury had sat together in one room, would they have never come up with WWTLF? And yet, both are excellent song-writers.
Queen actually is a good example. How many of the great Queen songs are written by one of them and then they got together and worked out the song together after that? But the basic essence of many great songs was the idea of just one at a time?  Talon probably knows more exact numbers, but as far as I understand, it is the majority. They worked out the instrumentation, the production together, fine-tuned it together. But it was somebody’s song first.

 Adam has stated that he often wants to start with a rhythmic line, then see where it goes from there. So, he is looking for some grounding. Can he do that with a synth? Obviously yes. Can a synth, give him a basic  I, IV, V, I, and then some? Of course.

 But, as Holst mentioned, that would result in very primitive songs and would be quite counterproductive. Adam needs to freely compose with his voice and his imagination, so any instrument needs to be one that allows to support that. That is why you cannot compose with a violin or a HeWhoCannot amedet. Because you cannot sing and play at the same time. That is why people come back
to guitar and piano again and again as the basic instruments for composition. They also both allow for full accords and not just melody lines. Another benefit.

If Adam only needed a I, IV, V, I (like 90 % of all the lousy pop music in the world), then I would have written 2 days to learn the guitar, instead of 6 weeks, because that is how long it takes to learn those basic three accords. Ok, 3 days, to add a 7 - accord and to do minor ones too. Use a capodaster and voila. It is really that simple.

The reason, I said 6 weeks, is because I agree, that this would not be enough. Adam needs to freely explore with his vocals, but he then needs to be able to ground himself without having to invite the committee. It is not that it is impossible to do it with a group, it just is tedious that way and some brilliance gets lost in translation.

If a poet does not know how to read or write, can he still be a poet? Sure. But he now needs to engage a scribe, endlessly bother that scribe and the usual, ‘scratch that out, write this instead’, would get very cumbersome to the point, where you don’t want to scratch it out one more time or get totally lost, because the scribe is not in sync anymore with what is in
the head of the poet.

 A pen and a notepad grounds an author, an instrument grounds a musician. A vocalist can develop a melody in his head just by singing it, just like an author can speak his text, but to get to a complex song, he needs that instrument as a clutch, just like the author needs the notepad and pen to echo back what he has already written.

When I say that Adam could use basic guitar or piano knowledge and it would help him, then not because I believe the guitar would ever lead, it would only support his evolving vocal ideas. I think that Adam’s present dependency on an instrumentalist shows in his songs left and right. 

 Finally: I do think that Adam is already now a good songwriter, because he has ideas, has great instincts, is very musical and can work great in a team. I do agree that his songs are good, some even great. And as I said, he does not deserve that lashing that this NY – classic rock DJ gave his songwriting skills. I totally agree. But if he wants to get to the level of great song-writing, I think that he is missing his pen and notepad.

<img style="max-width:100%;" alt="" src="<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid915.photobucket.com/albums/ac351/mezmirized/Sauli and Nea Dancing on Ice Live3/LIVE3YarrSauliSparrowvaltaaDancingonIce-hallinNelonen-fi.mp4">"><img alt=" " video="<embed width=&quot;600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid915.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac351%2Fmezmirized%2FSauli%2520and%2520Nea%2520%2520Dancing%2520on%2520Ice%2520Live3%2FLIVE3YarrSauliSparrowvaltaaDancingonIce-hallinNelonen-fi.mp4">" src="/images/bbcode/video-preview.png">\



<img style="max-width:100%;" alt="" src="<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="transparent" src="static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid915.photobucket.com/albums/ac351/mezmirized/Sauli and Nea Dancing on Ice Live3/LIVE3YarrSauliSparrowvaltaaDancingonIce-hallinNelonen-fi.mp4">">

practice on upload video

vimeo.com/78885081#at=0

</img>           The seem to be working....but there are a number of them i don't see in the regular thread...red dancer etc...but not sure if that is what I have posted here as it is showing...yikes