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Post by cassie on Aug 15, 2011 22:36:50 GMT -5
OMG! How could I have forgotten to include that???? My apologies for omitting the most crucial piece of news! |
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Post by SusieFierce on Aug 15, 2011 22:39:27 GMT -5
I think he is very deliberative when he uses this word. He seems to use the word to make the point that there is more than one way to live your life when you are gay. His lifestyle is about more than just his gayness. The gay thing is a given, most of the rest of it is a choice. YES THIS!! Many pick on Adam for using the term lifestyle but what I have gotten from his interviews is that he IS making a distinction between lifestyle as in how you live your life as opposed to who you love. This is unfortunately a point that even those in the gay community don't get. Being gay is not a choice, but the way you choose to express yourself is a choice. Adam's "lifestyle" is to live his life openly and honestly as a gay man. If he had chosen to be closeted his "lifestyle" would be that of a closeted gay man. He speaks about freedom of expression and that his fashion choices are a way of expressing himself but what people don't seem to get is that his sexuality is only a part of what he is expressing. Wearing nail polish isn't about being "Gay" it's about feeling pretty or edgy or whatever. This is another reason I have always felt that Tommy was so important during the tour because he is a straight guy who likes being pretty and there should be nothing wrong with that and it shouldn't define his sexuality. So on one stage you had two guys who liked being pretty and one is straight and one is gay. Also kissing is not sex. I truly think Adam does not equate making out with sex because he has talked about how enjoyable kissing is just for the sake of kissing not necessarily as a precursor to sex. There was at least one interview (maybe Fuse) where he talked about enjoying making out and the difference with girls was he didn't feel it as a sexual response. That was indicated with a gesture to below his waist not with words. Kissing is more about sensuality than sexuality but society's repressive attitudes about sex cause all kinds of warped views of simple human contact. Touch is very important to human emotional stability and our repressive attitudes towards sex have caused hyper sexualized view of touch. I think the world would be a much nicer place if there was more hugging, touching, and feeling each other. In animals mutual grooming is a stress reliever and unfortunately the puritanical view of society have taken away many forms of contact that would greatly benefit us emotionally. We know for instance that lack of touch with babies and young children has serious psychological ramifications. Also porn addiction is much higher in more sexually restrictive communities. Yes and YES!!!! Love this post, Rihannasu and excellent points across the board. As I was leaving work, this was being discussed on Twitter and Sunflower_AT was making a similar case – that Adam's selection of the word "preference" was very deliberate and had to do with the diversity of lifestyles among those who are gay. This made tremendous sense to me, as I've always thought his use of the word was deliberate, but wasn't quite sure what he meant by it. But when you think about it, within gay culture, you have as many variations in sexual preference than we do in straight. I may be straight, but doesn't mean I can relate to the hardcore bondage scene any more than I can relate to the lights out, Missionary position while wearing a flannel granny nightgown. True, some people still think it's not a choice, but I don't think Adam should have to "dumb down" his verbiage because of that. I loved that Twitlonger you posted, smokey, and how she said that some gay people are more highly evolved souls meant to teach us (paraphrasing). I believe that. And I certainly believe that of Adam. Look how many people he has already inspired, possibly saved and spurred into taking a stand, as evidenced in this thread alone. |
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agnelle
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Post by agnelle on Aug 15, 2011 22:40:31 GMT -5
I still need to catch up on the thread, but just saw this and want to flail for SusieFierce first !!! Wow!
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Post by midwifespal on Aug 15, 2011 22:40:42 GMT -5
I think he is very deliberative when he uses this word. He seems to use the word to make the point that there is more than one way to live your life when you are gay. His lifestyle is about more than just his gayness. The gay thing is a given, most of the rest of it is a choice. Yes, I agree, also because it seems to me that some of Adam's strongest feelings about issues of sexuality surround this idea of diversity of LIFESTYLE, within and without the "gay community." He clearly knows what he is doing when he uses this word--if we're sensitive to it, then I guarantee you Adam is sensitive to it, having lived for a decade in the very politically aware gay community in WeHo. He must be doing it deliberately. And I have to admit, Adam's persistent use of this word always makes me smile for another reason: While I of course completely understand why the gay rights movement has latched on to the idea of "Born This Way" to advance their cause, and while I of course also believe that people are born with a variety of sexual orientations, and understand why that's a powerful thing to insist upon when faced with people like Blechmann who want to "pray away the gay," part of me is always a little sad that this is the line we have to take. I mean, it really shouldn't matter. I'm sure there are some people who choose same-sex relationships for reasons other than, or at least in addition to, "born" sexual orientation. That should be fine. (Frankly, I'm scientifically inclined to think that we're all on a much more fluid scale than the one our societies' rigid boxes set us on anyway.) I think people are born gay, but say someone wasn't--say someone just decided to swing that way as a "lifestyle choice." THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT "LIFESTYLE" SO WHY WOULD IT MATTER IF IT WERE A CHOICE--IT WOULD BE A PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE CHOICE!! Again, let me firmly reiterate that I don't think it is a choice. And knowing how much so many gay teens agonize over the discovery of their sexuality, and how much they would do to change it and be accepted if they could, I respect the strong emotions surrounding this distinction, and appreciate its importance. I just think that the whole "born this way" debate, while politically effective, perhaps, and a sad reality, and also a true distinction, is somehow sadly missing the point. It always smacks to me a little of "they can't help it." There's nothing to "help." In a way, our sexuality perhaps should be a question of "lifestyle" just as, say, our aesthetic tastes are. Just another way in which we express who we are and what we desire as individuals. Dunno if Adam has any of this in mind when he uses the word, but I do. (I hope I've been clear and not too muddled and haven't offended anyone with this point--I assure you that my actual beliefs, rather than the awkward form in which I've tried to communicate them, wouldn't offend!) TOTALLY DIFF TOPIC: Did y'all catch Adam's hilaire little joke about Bieber in the DishofSalt interview? When he walks by? Adam mumbles "Swag" with a smirk. I choked a little. So funny (I gather the Biebs is always going on about swag--he's worse than SYTYCD). FINALLY: All this Blechmann grossness has made me think of another prayerful, anti-gay contender who's just entered the race and who I'm unfortunately very familiar with as a Texan. I wish, of course, as always, to respect Q3's wishes and not get too political on this board, so I'll just finish with a little photo essay:   ETA: YAY SUSIE!!! and AWESOMELY returned at that!!! :D |
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Post by rabbitrabbit on Aug 15, 2011 22:41:01 GMT -5
I think he is very deliberative when he uses this word. He seems to use the word to make the point that there is more than one way to live your life when you are gay. His lifestyle is about more than just his gayness. The gay thing is a given, most of the rest of it is a choice. YES THIS!! Many pick on Adam for using the term lifestyle but what I have gotten from his interviews is that he IS making a distinction between lifestyle as in how you live your life as opposed to who you love. This is unfortunately a point that even those in the gay community don't get. Being gay is not a choice, but the way you choose to express yourself is a choice. Adam's "lifestyle" is to live his life openly and honestly as a gay man. If he had chosen to be closeted his "lifestyle" would be that of a closeted gay man. He speaks about freedom of expression and that his fashion choices are a way of expressing himself but what people don't seem to get is that his sexuality is only a part of what he is expressing. Wearing nail polish isn't about being "Gay" it's about feeling pretty or edgy or whatever. See I understand this, but to me it doesn't really make sense as a response to Bachman's video. She is quoted as saying in the video: "It's a very sad life, it's part of Satan I think.... it leads to the personal enslavement of individuals, if you are involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle it's bondage...personal enslavement. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life and sexual identity disorders." He says: @orangeslushie her view IS ignorant. She is stereotyping and generalizing the lifestyle as one kind of life. We are way more diverse! _____________________ She's not just stereotyping and generalizing, she's saying that being gay is a pathological dysfunction, an addictive perversion (at least that's what I get from all the bondage stuff) similar to something like, I don't know, pedophilia. When Adam responds saying gay people are more diverse than that and that that is a generalization, it unfortunately kind of makes it sound a little like he's accepting that there are a segment of gay people whose "lifestyles" fit her description. Maybe he was thinking of "bondage" and "sadness" and closeted people with similar backgrounds to her, I dunno. Maybe I'm reading too much into a tweet, but it confused me, and I'm pretty much confused whenever he uses the word "lifestyle". I'd really like an interviewer who is really on his side and won't edit his full answer to ask him about what this word means to him and why he uses it when it's predominately a word used by haters to equate being gay with being a choice. I love that he is bringing more attention to this interview with Bachman though, and I love the point he made about these kind of attitudes being passed onto children who then become bullies (if your parents consider gays to be afflicted sexual deviants, why wouldn't you despise/fear them as a child? ughh...) |
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Post by SusieFierce on Aug 15, 2011 22:41:38 GMT -5
Well I was waiting for a SusieFierce flail!!! Sorry, was overwhelmed on Twitter (a CRAZY number of @replies) and then when I was on lunch, I couldn't get Atop to load, then work got nuts again.  |
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Post by FanOfTheMan on Aug 15, 2011 22:42:50 GMT -5
Well I was waiting for a SusieFierce flail!!!  OMG!!! I missed that. Where is it? What did Adam retweet? |
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Post by SusieFierce on Aug 15, 2011 22:54:15 GMT -5
IT TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH TO GET HERE! OMG!!! I missed that. Where is it? What did Adam retweet? I tweeted him (in response to his Michele Bachmann video and tweet) this pic and said, "This kid's expression says it all." [Hoping to get a laugh out of him.] And luckily @telldebatz RTed me and said, "lol" and I guess that made it so he saw it again, because he RTed her tweet.  |
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Post by rabbitrabbit on Aug 15, 2011 22:54:57 GMT -5
Susie and midwivespal and rihannsu I get your points (I was typing at the same time as midwivespal's great explanation of the drawbacks of "born this way", and the freedom of "lifestyle" instead), and I think that this is most probably what Adam means, but I don't really know because we haven't heard him explain it.
I just feel like it would be great to hear him talk about in his own words sometime, and fill in the blanks. Otherwise when he responds to someone who dismisses being gay as a lifestyle choice they don't "agree" with with the same word, I'm not sure that they, or other people listening in know if he's using it in a different way.
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Post by midwifespal on Aug 15, 2011 22:57:46 GMT -5
YES THIS!! Many pick on Adam for using the term lifestyle but what I have gotten from his interviews is that he IS making a distinction between lifestyle as in how you live your life as opposed to who you love. This is unfortunately a point that even those in the gay community don't get. Being gay is not a choice, but the way you choose to express yourself is a choice. Adam's "lifestyle" is to live his life openly and honestly as a gay man. If he had chosen to be closeted his "lifestyle" would be that of a closeted gay man. He speaks about freedom of expression and that his fashion choices are a way of expressing himself but what people don't seem to get is that his sexuality is only a part of what he is expressing. Wearing nail polish isn't about being "Gay" it's about feeling pretty or edgy or whatever. See I understand this, but to me it doesn't really make sense as a response to Bachman's video. She is quoted as saying in the video: "It's a very sad life, it's part of Satan I think.... it leads to the personal enslavement of individuals, if you are involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle it's bondage...personal enslavement. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life and sexual identity disorders." He says: @orangeslushie her view IS ignorant. She is stereotyping and generalizing the lifestyle as one kind of life. We are way more diverse! _____________________ She's not just stereotyping and generalizing, she's saying that being gay is a pathological dysfunction, an addictive perversion (at least that's what I get from all the bondage stuff) similar to something like, I don't know, pedophilia. When Adam responds saying gay people are more diverse than that and that that is a generalization, it unfortunately kind of makes it sound a little like he's accepting that there are a segment of gay people whose "lifestyles" fit her description. Maybe he was thinking of "bondage" and "sadness" and closeted people with similar backgrounds to her, I dunno.Maybe I'm reading too much into a tweet, but it confused me, and I'm pretty much confused whenever he uses the word "lifestyle". I'd really like an interviewer who is really on his side and won't edit his full answer to ask him about what this word means to him and why he uses it when it's predominately a word used by haters to equate being gay with being a choice. I love that he is bringing more attention to this interview with Bachman though, and I love the point he made about these kind of attitudes being passed onto children who then become bullies (if your parents consider gays to be afflicted sexual deviants, why wouldn't you despise/fear them as a child? ughh...) Rabbitrabbit--I get what you're saying, and had a similar reaction when I first saw the tweets. I also picked up on the possible answers you did, about "bondage" and "sadness." I felt like he was saying: speak for yourself and your world--my sexuality is a source of happiness, not a burden to me. Also, in addition to my dumb dissertation above on "livestyle" and "choice," which may have nothing to do with how Adam feels about the language, I felt like his response to that tweeter made more sense when looked at more carefully. She was disagreeing specifically with his accusation of ignorance. To Adam, given the way in which he personally has experience ignorance about homosexuality from within a fortunately fairly sheltered bubble, ignorance=making certain assumptions about what he is like or how he should behave or how he feels about something because he is gay. I think this is why he called Blechmann out on that particular aspect of her wide-ranging stupidity. It's what he's butted up against the most. And I can kind of imagine, when hearing a supposed "description" of yourself like the one she gave, how crazy that must sound, how totally different from how you feel and how you live--I can understand his response a lot better that way. And of course, as you said, all the rest is very clear (and very sad) too. ETA: Just saw your last post, rabbitrabbit (lol simultaneous typage)--And I totally agree--I would love to hear Adam's response to those questions, which I have wondered about myself many times, in a setting where he is given the time to answer thoughtfully and with nuance. But I must admit if I were a lucky enough bitch to get an interview with him, not sure I would have the chutzpah to ask him that, given how much "gay" "eyeliner" shit he has to deal with on a regular basis, even though these questions are of a totally diff. nature: much more respectful and more interesting. Would love to hear his thoughts though. |
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