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Post by mszue on Sept 24, 2012 17:00:40 GMT -5
I am enjoying the conversation and hope that no one will quit posting for any reason. We have had too much of that on Atop lately. I will scream and cry if anyone else goes away. So there. I do think that several of us are talking and all about different things. My reaction to what sugaree said, and mszue's comment that her education did not pay off, is to come back to the idea that our society is dropping the ball on training and education all the way around. Underemployment is the result; our society is wasting a tremendous amount of human potential. And where is the will to change it? Coming back to the concept of dumbing down, I think it ties in with the lack of conviction among the leadership of our institutions. When you are not sure of yourself then you go for the lowest common denominator. I work at a major research library; much of what I do is create websites and exhibits to showcase our holdings for the general public. In the last few years there has been tremendous pressure to dumb down, to create materials on the 8th grade level. I have never managed to get down below the 10th grade level. Our holdings and the ideas they contain are very complex. The irony is that youngsters are not even permitted here -- so who are we catering to and why? Since when did our whole society begin to revolve around pleasing imaginary 14-year-olds? This question directly relates to Adam's struggles. We are casting away the possibility for nuance and complexity and to gain what exactly? For whom are these products even being created? When did we cease to want to be treated as adults? Want to end on a more positive note because there is something in the air today. When I was going to get coffee I saw a man dancing to music only he and I could hear. That is, he was dancing in perfect harmony with the fast version of We Will Rock You on my iPod. Then on the way back I saw another man "dancing," making patterns in an open area on a segway. And a whole bunch of dancing dragonflies. The last time I saw those was right before Kiev. I choose to believe dragonflies are Adam's personal bug (along with mika's) so I think it's a sign. Insect Dreams by ThuMpeRKA GAAAAHHHHH I just wrote a whole long post and it vanished into thin air!! That is why I write in word then copy paste...the one time I don't and that happens....I don't know if I will repeat it or just let it go...see how my fingers hold up...:-)
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nikki
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Post by nikki on Sept 25, 2012 5:11:18 GMT -5
Hello Junie, lovely lady, I missed you to And mszue, lovely lady, hello again to you . We are simply having a chat, talking some things through. There was no courage needed on my part to say what I said - it is completely undeserved. Isn't courage needed when there is a threat, intimidation or something to be overcome? Not true here. I've never been an advocate for dumbing down or anything like it. I have merely been an advocate for keeping things as simple as possible, as accessible as possible. You are quite right, though, about complexity, but I see simplicity and complexity as different aspects of the same whole, appropriate at different times, for different reasons, as some here have already said. .... I value intuition over information, contents over package, wisdom over education, quality over quantity; and I feel Adam does as well ... I read the full text today and see no cause for alarm! Both the spiritual (intuitive understanding) and rational (analytic understanding) dimensions of human beings require education, require discipline to master. I take her point - some things can be learnt, others can only be known. Both are "natural", it's just preference for one aspect of oneself over another aspect of oneself.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 10:30:59 GMT -5
Yeah, nikki. You have called us out on black and white thinking. So right. I wonder if black and white, all or nothing thinking is actually more prevalent now, or it just seems that way because the Internet lends itself to it? Or, could it have something to do with depression? I have read that people often try to "self medicate" their depression with drama. I don't exempt myself. It would be interesting to know. You guys, I am feeling so good about Trespassing ... and looking forward to seeing Adam look stunning at the benefit tonight. Wanted to share a bit of beauty with you. Here's to the dreamers. It's gonna happen: I am helium raven and this movie is mine, So he cried out as he stretched the sky, Pushing it all out like latex cartoon Am I all alone in this generation?(Patti Smith, Birdland)
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Post by winter on Sept 25, 2012 12:20:27 GMT -5
I agree with Junie that it's easy to fall into black/white thinking, but I also think it's as easy (and dangerous) to fall into fuzzy thinking. Even though I didn't participate I thought it was an interesting discussion and I don't mean to drag it out, but I don't think anyone here was alarmed - just raising what I considered to be worthwhile questions. I tend to pass by slogan-y comments but I can see why lumping preferences for 'intuition over information' and 'wisdom over education' in with preferences for content vs package and quantity vs quality could raise questions - as there is a clear implication of preference for substance over superficiality. Personally, I cannot imagine why someone would offer a values comment that presumes information and education to somehow be opposites - or, at least, lesser cousins - to intuition and wisdom. I am truly a great believer in intuition but I am an equally great believer in information. I think some of us here have spent several years hearing powerful political and cultural figures question the value of education and information. As a great American commentator once said 'I love the truth, it's the facts I don't care for.' (See truthiness ) So, I thank mszue and juniemoon for raising their respective points on this interesting issue. And I promise to find something more moongardeny to post soon :-[
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 16:18:10 GMT -5
winter -- "truthiness." :4OMG: By the way, I don't like fuzzy thinking. But I do like fuzzy tails. What does that make me? :D
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Post by winter on Sept 25, 2012 16:27:30 GMT -5
[/IMG] By the way, I don't like fuzzy thinking. But I do like fuzzy tails. What does that make me? :D [/quote] Someone who keenly appreciates the rare, finely pelted Sushi Wolf, a playful carnivore native to West Hollywood??
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2012 16:36:04 GMT -5
[/IMG] By the way, I don't like fuzzy thinking. But I do like fuzzy tails. What does that make me? :D [/quote] Someone who keenly appreciates the rare, finely pelted Sushi Wolf, a playful carnivore native to West Hollywood?? [/quote] "It's all according to how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand."
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Post by melliemom on Sept 25, 2012 18:07:40 GMT -5
[/IMG] By the way, I don't like fuzzy thinking. But I do like fuzzy tails. What does that make me? :D [/quote] A raccoon without rabies???
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nikki
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Post by nikki on Sept 26, 2012 6:29:25 GMT -5
.... I am now going to state something downright sacrilegious .... now you can all beat up on me....sigh....if you want I will even remove my post. Winter, I used "alarm" in response to this comment with an exclamation mark afterward, which could imply playfullness. Personally, I cannot imagine why someone would offer a values comment that presumes information and education to somehow be opposites - or, at least, lesser cousins - to intuition and wisdom. If we apply the same standard to all, mszue's response is also values-laden, it's just not as explicit as Alexandrakv's: nikki....the problem here is that what happens when one resorts to 'off the top of your head', instinctive/intuitive feelings and thoughts is that TRUTH gets buried in exaggeration or over-simplification ..... And a complete mis-representation of the nature of intuition; equating it to shallow analytical thought and therefore an obstacle to truth itself. So, "fuzzy thinking" all round? No, just people who are not experts on everything expressing themselves on a public forum for a pop star. Whew. I so want to join this conversation using the right words. Is this what we want? How dull :-[ I never post at the Moon Garden, you guys are too articulate for my knowledge of US culture and all the other things you are referring to .... Yeah, nikki. You have called us out on black and white thinking. So right. Junie, I wasn't calling out anything really. Just saying it how I see it at the time. Glad it helped, but Mika named it a few pages back with his reference to "either/or" thinking. Repetition helps ;D
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2012 9:43:39 GMT -5
Forecast for today: He stood, a point on a sheet of green paper proclaiming himself the center
with no walls, no borders anywhere; the sky no height above him, totally un- enclosed and shouted:
Let me out!
(Margaret Atwood, Progressive Insanities of a Pioneer)I am looking forward to watching the 9:30 Club videos today. I love reading the recaps and reviews and seeing the joy in those pictures. It appears all is pink skies with Adam's boogaloo situation. Thoughts: No matter how magnificent Adam is, he remains fundamentally disreputable in the minds of many Americans who think that gays are freaks. Yet Adam is a star and he knows it. His remarkable and inimitable voice and his moves bring screams to our lips and tears to our eyes. On stage he catches fire and sings like a god in flames. Tears come because sexual and emotional repression are among the tools in the arsenal used to keep down the people who are his fans -- and those who would be if they only knew he existed. In other words, Adam is a babe who can sing but he is not only that. He means something in our inner lives. It is no coincidence that many of us found Adam during times of despair. He creates meaning where there is none; in an earlier era that was called magic. His is a will that can move other wills in the form of a man who can sing songs. *** On another topic ... I know some others may find this article interesting: Meeting A Troll: www.traynorseye.com/2012/09/meeting-troll.htmlThis is the story of a blogger and Twitter user who became the target of an increasingly frightening troll. He tracked him down. There is an O. Henry-like twist when you find out who it is. Longish but worth it.
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