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Post by winter on Oct 15, 2012 11:35:00 GMT -5
Junie I have a reading group on Thurs nights but I don't think I'd be very good at chat anyway :-[ Though if you don't object to a peanut gallery of one... Mika TY for posting the P!nk video! I hadn't seen it but I loooved it, simple but so powerful. There was an article/interview with her a few months ago that reminded me of Adam. Will pm link and another video I think you might find interesting . Self-censorship? I think it depends entirely on forum and audience. There are things I don't say on the internet. Not out of fear or reticence, but because I don't think it's a very good medium for dialogue - at least most places. irl I will engage on any topic as long as it's not just to provoke. I don't care for the polemical nature of quite a bit of public conversation. (I didn't find that Guardian article very on target tbh.) As for history, as a looong-ago former history major, I find it an often difficult subject, so many factors, povs, and preconceptions - I was reminded by some recent comments of Howard Zinn's a People's History which had a profound impact on me when I was young. Hope everyone is preparing for the Great Pumpkin! This is such a great time of year :D :D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2012 14:03:13 GMT -5
C'mon Viv, jump in the pool HI Chapf!!!! Been looking for you...*focuses binoculars*...the water looks mighty fine. AWWWWWWW....sweet..
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mika
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Post by mika on Oct 15, 2012 14:27:50 GMT -5
Mika TY for posting the P!nk video! I hadn't seen it but I loooved it, simple but so powerful. There was an article/interview with her a few months ago that reminded me of Adam. Will pm link and another video I think you might find interesting . As for history, as a looong-ago former history major, I find it an often difficult subject, so many factors, povs, and preconceptions - I was reminded by some recent comments of Howard Zinn's a People's History which had a profound impact on me when I was young. Hope everyone is preparing for the Great Pumpkin! This is such a great time of year :D :D Thank you, Milady deWinter I shall look forward to it with great anticipation. (Did you ever read The Club Dumas? One of the few books where I thought the ~horror bit was the least interesting.) ETA: love Zinn
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Post by mszue on Oct 15, 2012 15:37:19 GMT -5
I confess that I Just now finally got around to reading the Patrick Ness article on censorship or more realistically, self censorship! It was just as interesting to read the comments. It is too bad Michel Foucault is not around to comment...this is right up his alley. Ness called it, of course, that many of the comments come from people who seem to purposefully misunderstand the point Ness was trying to make in order to go off on their own tangent...or to step up to the bully-pulpit. It is surprising how few comments really kept to the topic at hand, in a meaningful way.
It is funny that my first thoughts as I read the essay were of Foucault and how he would react as F and my intellectual mentor, Goffman, were interested in the same issues but coming from opposite directions...Foucault: Macro and Goffman: Micro... After all, taking care to tailor our Presentation of Self to Others is really another way of looking at self-censorship. And the WORK of doing that monitoring and the consequences to the self's psyche is in fact, another form/instance of Emotional Labour. We are trying to control the way others think of us by censoring/monitoring the way we speak and the things we say.
This forum is the only place outside of academe that I have talked about EL [emotional labour]...other than the occasional short explanations of my study...and it is interesting that in generally is one of those conversations that seems to make a lot of people uncomfortable....and one I have generally self-censosred myself over...as most people do not like to feel or acknowledge that any of their acts/words/mannerisms are in any way calculated or instrumental. There is always some sort of sense or assumption of negativity to the whole idea of such purposeful impression management....all the while eagerly buying up "Dress for Success" books and fashion magazines that tell you what to wear to make that critical good first impression! WUT???....that is the point... We deny we dress for others as we dial the phone to find out what our friend is wearing to the theatre/party!
Ness mentions the reticence one would feel in a ultra liberal milieu to admit to being anti abortion.... when I taught in the US, I rapidly learnt that you do not...EVER ... bring up gun control! Yikes! For a Canadian, that was a mind-blowing conundrum....major cognitive dissonance.
fyi....hehe...I just self-censored myself....too funny....as I delete two lines.
Anyway...very interesting read. I really believe that the primary battles of the next generation will be over Privacy/security/and censorship of information.
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mahailia
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Post by mahailia on Oct 15, 2012 15:52:56 GMT -5
Mika loved loved loved the P!nk vid, and no, I had not seen it. Such a powerful and moving dance they did. I posted it on my son's FB page, as he is a dancer, and he loved it to! Interesting, the vid is approaching 9,000,000 views, and was put out on Oct. 10th!!!!! Damn, I wish Adam had that kind of popularity, maybe someday, as P!nk has been around a while. I am not very familar with her back ground, but sure she paid some dues for a while before becoming the star she is today. Also, on the plane coming back from UK, I watched Katy Perry's video, Part of Me, about her tour last year. I believe it said she was signed to her first label when she was 19, so it also took her a while to make it to huge arena tour. I was really surprised at how vast and huge her tour was, she was on the road for a year. Anyway, this is kind of off the current topic of deeper stuff, sorry about that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2012 16:44:32 GMT -5
winter, last time we had a chat, it was my first time. It turned out to be pretty hard to mess it up. Come if you can. mahailia, you had a great observation. It is OK to have more than one topic running in the Moon Garden at the same time. Our pool has a deep end and a shallow end and everyone can swim in both. On self censorship: Zinn BLEAH I don't happen to share the enthusiasm for Howard Zinn. I am very interested in this topic of censorship/self-censorship and yes it ties in very closely with mszue's topic about emotional labor. I censored myself on the main thread today. I looked in the Social Justice thread and censored myself. I made a blanket rule for myself that I never discuss Idol; I censored myself. I made a blanket rule not to discuss politics with Adam friends -- censored. Let's face it, we are social creatures and none of us wants to be cast out of the group. I can think of several ideas that I hold that probably, some of my friends wouldn't like me anymore if they knew. Might even hate me, just for what I think. We seem to have forgotten in our society how to agree to disagree. How to allow each other the space to have our own thoughts. The middle ground is cut away until there is nowhere left to stand. But too many affronts to our pride and dignity and personal space and we may absent ourselves from the group -- I guess you'd say because the emotional labor becomes too heavy to bear. Here is a little something interesting and relevant to the earlier discussion about cultural change and how pop music is a part of it: Tiny Azerbaijan unleashes pop power against Iran's mullahs www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/tiny-azerbaijan-unleashes-pop-power-against-irans-mullahs/2012/10/14/0a0819ec-14b3-11e2-bf18-a8a596df4bee_story.htmlThis story is about how the nation of Azerbaijan, though hardly perfect, has embraced the role of a nonsectarian, Muslim-majority society that champions women’s athletics and embraces Western music and entertainers -- with some interesting consequences: Yet, with each stride toward modernity — and with every Western diva who arrives to croon and titillate on Baku’s expanding international stage — Azerbaijan chips away at the legitimacy of Iran’s government and fuels discontent among ordinary Iranians, say Western officials who study the region.
“It is one of the most serious threats to the long-term viability of the Iranian regime,” said Matthew Bryza, a former U.S. ambassador to Azerbaijan...
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annala
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Post by annala on Oct 15, 2012 16:57:24 GMT -5
Just wanted to say that I appreciate the replies posted on my '50's post. LindaG23, you succinctly summed up the decade, and here I paraphrase what you posted - that after the upheavals earlier in the 20th century, WWI, the Roaring '20's, the Great Depression, and WWII (of which I have memories of the bombing of Hiroshima/Nagasaki in Japan and the Holocaust in Europe), we entered a "period of calm and almost a repressed status quo...to convince the populace that life could return to normal even if that normal ignored basic inequities..."
That is all so very true. Nowadays, some people tend to look back on the '50's with nostalgia as some kind of "Golden Age". But one of my reasons for posting my thoughts about the '50's is that there never was a "Golden Age".
My other reason for posting is that I now look at my own five grandchildren, ages 23 to 14, and I see some hope. We seem to be coming out of an era of excessive materialism and greed, and the current recession we are now experiencing has been sobering for many. These kids are the next generation coming up and life will not be easy for them - there is work to be done. They seem to be a bit more subdued than the kids of a few years ago, and in a way, they kind of remind me of my generation back in the '50s.
Now, a final few words about Adam. I have been so moved by the "interview"with Sarin Moddle. I put "interview" in quotes, because it seemed more like friends just talking with one another. He expressed some very real concerns that he has - (1) about the status of the music industry these days and how hard it can be to get recognition from the PTB - and (2) navigating his life and career as the proud gay man that he is. This has to be difficult and confusing expecially with conflicting opinions within the gay community. He speaks with such honesty. Because he is so unique, I think that his journey will be different, but he just has so much to give that he will be successful in however it turns out. He is with the same management company (DMG) as kd lang, and if his career path should become similar to her's, then that in itself could be a good and lasting thing. Just a thought for now.
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mika
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Post by mika on Oct 15, 2012 20:10:18 GMT -5
Mika loved loved loved the P!nk vid, and no, I had not seen it. Such a powerful and moving dance they did. I posted it on my son's FB page, as he is a dancer, and he loved it to! Interesting, the vid is approaching 9,000,000 views, and was put out on Oct. 10th!!!!! Damn, I wish Adam had that kind of popularity, maybe someday, as P!nk has been around a while. I am not very familar with her back ground, but sure she paid some dues for a while before becoming the star she is today. Also, on the plane coming back from UK, I watched Katy Perry's video, Part of Me, about her tour last year. I believe it said she was signed to her first label when she was 19, so it also took her a while to make it to huge arena tour. I was really surprised at how vast and huge her tour was, she was on the road for a year. Anyway, this is kind of off the current topic of deeper stuff, sorry about that. Glad you liked it! -- and really glad your son did as well. I looked up the dancer in the vid - he did such an amazing job not just with dancing but perfectly balanced in terms of expressiveness. So impressed that your son is a dancer - it always strikes me a such an admirable choice given the toll it takes and what a struggle it can be - but such a gorgeous, moving art form. Regarding touring, I think this is another reason Adam needs to take a slightly different approach than many artists. i tend to not agree with people who suggest he has to be churning out albums and departing on a 22 month tour as many groups/artists have done. So much easier (and still not easy) to do this when you're in your twenties and not as committed to family/friends and having a life as Adam is. And even then, still not easy at all. Toure wrote this piece that tackily uses Whitney's Houton's death as a hook to quote Questlove and comment on the costs of being full out all the time - esp in touring. If you skim over or just skip the Whitney parts, I think it makes some good points even if it over-reaches. ETA: given the tendency of people to jump on things, I will clarify, I have no concerns about excess/drugs -- just noting that constant travel/work is always physically and emotionally taxing no matter how well one takes care of oneself. The reason a lot of artists take their families with them even with all the drawbacks of that for loved ones. ideas.time.com/2012/02/14/after-whitney-houston-musicians-wonder-whos-next/Don't know if Lynne checks in here or if this already came up, but one of my midnight viewings recently was ' Shakespeare High' -- I enjoyed it but kept trying to see if Lynne and her kids were there. Lynne, you out there? shakespearehigh.org/A little tired - plz forgive typos.
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mahailia
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Post by mahailia on Oct 16, 2012 11:53:55 GMT -5
thanks, mika! I am a very proud mom! My son is quite talented, if I do say so myself ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2012 16:02:29 GMT -5
PLEASE JOIN US THURSDAY IN THE CHAT ROOM TIME: 9 PM EASTERN - 8 CENTRAL - 7 MOUNTAIN - 6 PACIFIC TOPIC: ALL THINGS ADAM HOSTED BY THE MOON GARDEN *** What’s money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do. -- Bob Dylan If the day and the night are such that you greet them with joy, and life emits a fragrance like flowers and sweet-scented herbs, is more elastic, more starry, more immortal — that is your success. -- Henry David Thoreau
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