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Post by lelemaple on Aug 2, 2017 7:05:08 GMT -5
Talon, not to go off on a tangent, but something you said has me wondering. What exactly is John's involvement in decision-making at this stage? Did he have to sign off on Adam, all of these tours, the song selection, etc. How much say does he have and is it a 4-way thing, like exactly 25% per original member? Does Jim Beach make the decisions on behalf of Freddie's estate? Sorry for so many questions. I know John doesn't talk to Brian or Roger but I assume he has an attorney who intervenes on his behalf. Well it's not exactly all known how it goes down but I do know some specifics and guess at others. A long time ago he gave his blessing for Brian and Roger to use the name and go out on tour. He *MAY* have been a part of vetoing Robbie Williams as there is a story that after they teamed on WATC. The story in the Sun stated: However grain of salt. I have heard he said that but didn't realize he was talking to a reporter. BUT regardless moving on. Queen Productions is a 4-way split. Brian, Roger, John, and Freddie's estate which Jim Beach represents. He does make the decisions though I'm sure he hears from Freddie's family and most likely Mary Austin a bit too (the subject of "Love Of My Life") - though that's my speculation. Brian and Roger don't hear from John socially (he's become a bit of a recluse.) BUT I still hear that when he doesn't like something they hear from him or from email etc. From what I hear also is that B&R send John specs of product and if they don't hear back from him they move forward... He probably has as much say as he wants as far as touring goes but doesn't really get involved. I know it's considered an open invite. Everytime they start a world tour, there's an open invite for John to come back. As I said before he allows them to use the name with his blessing to tour with Paul and again with Adam...although I think that was an initial blessing back in 2004 - As in use the name and tour unless you hear from me kind of thing. As far as production and song choice - I doubt he gets involved since he's not actually doing the tour. BUT I'd say he definitely gets 25% of the profit. He was always the businessman of the group anyways, lol. I think his heart was broken when Freddie died. John was the quiet one and was the last to develop into songwriting...which was COMPLETELY supported and nurtured by Freddie who kept drawing more and more out of him...And he was never a real rock and roll guy preferring motown type stuff, etc. and Freddie loved the idea and jumped into John's ideas headlong. I think John felt almost protected by Freddie within the group. Freddie dying hit John hard and he also then didn't have that strong supporter in his corner. He and Brian seemingly butted heads a lot. I think John just slowly didn't see any point in continuing as he had already begun to hate the music business before Freddie had passed. In fact if Freddie hadn't passed, I still think John might have retired in the 90s. BUT he was always good with money, his investments, and he knows what he helped build so he'll remain protective. Thanks so much! This is so helpful. If John for some reason really said no to something down the road, I wonder how that would go over and if there would be a fight on their hands. Let's hope that never happens for the sake of the band's harmony in all forms.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 8:10:59 GMT -5
The success of this tour and the last one speak for itself! Fans have been showing up and leave having loved and enjoyed it. Adam is the perfect choice as stated many times by Brian and Roger. Case closed! For the record - I think Adam probably is the best choice for frontman. There are others that would be fine as well. My first choice just being Brian and Roger touring themselves in smaller venues doing VH1 storytellers type gigs with just themselves on vocals. But I understand that's got a limited audience and thus not a likely scenario. Not going to meet their "million quarantee" either. Unless they charge ridiculous prices.
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Post by lurleene on Aug 2, 2017 8:52:16 GMT -5
It is amazing how this argument comes up every single time there is a show and fans are loving Adam. The envy is inevitable. Adam is not standing in for Freddie cause Freddie is not coming back. Adam is singing with Queen because Brian and Roger chose him. He is the frontman today. Like it or not that is the way it is. Sure if it were up to some purists he would not be there cause they feel threatened for some strange reason. Some fans will think Adam sings better (oh the horror) and some will think Freddie, Paul, George or insert any name other than Adam can sing better. It does not matter. Freddie would be 71 so even if here, the show would not be the same. Adam is not Freddie but Freddie would not be an Adam Lambert either. Levine or Gaga or any other would not be the same as a show with Adam Lambert. These people are not interchangeable otherwise Brian and Roger would have gone after others earlier. Rolling eyes or ranting will not change anyone's opinion. If some can't enjoy or celebrate the collaboration between Adam and Queen because Adam is getting high marks, just remember it is not all about you. It is not even about Freddie cause those who loved him always will. His legacy is safe even if people and crazy over Adam. It is about Brian, Roger and Adam and the joy they are bringing to the fans today. It is too late to hope that Adam fails. The most one can do is pretend he is not good enough (or doesn't have a rock voice as if all rock voices are the same) if it makes you feel better. But the shows are a success because of his voice and showmanship and most fans are more than happy about it. Some will never be happy with him in the role and that is one reason I think the long speech about Freddie does not work. The resentment is in the blood of some and it will never go away. It will continue for generations to come, lol. Brian, Roger and Adam just ignore them and continue to put on great shows and the rest of us should ignore them as well. Queen and Adam are rocking arenas all over the world. Why that makes some angry is a mystery but they will get over it or not.
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 12:25:49 GMT -5
Thanks so much! This is so helpful. If John for some reason really said no to something down the road, I wonder how that would go over and if there would be a fight on their hands. Let's hope that never happens for the sake of the band's harmony in all forms. No problem I wouldn't worry too much about it. My speculation only, I know, but I think as time goes on, John cares less and less - especially about touring. I think he'd be more apt to veto a Queen product that has material on it that he was involved in. I think the only way John vetos anything QAL would be if they tried to do something ghastly like take and old Freddie demo or something and try to finish it with Adam. I think he MAY try to veto that but I don't think B&R would even try that. Members of QP that I've talked to is that they keep Queen VERY separate from Queen + products. That's why I don't think you'll see Adam anywhere near the Freddie bio. Again I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely to me. For the record - I think Adam probably is the best choice for frontman. There are others that would be fine as well. My first choice just being Brian and Roger touring themselves in smaller venues doing VH1 storytellers type gigs with just themselves on vocals. But I understand that's got a limited audience and thus not a likely scenario. Not going to meet their "million quarantee" either. Unless they charge ridiculous prices. Oh of course not...But then again I'd be talking about a TOTALLY different production. Something much lower key....not even Queen really. A more stark set, etc. More about the music than the show. Something done very low key that would work better in the UK. They almost did a show like this once. They were going to do a VH1 Storytellers gig in 2001ish with friends Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins from Foo Fighters offering support but then Taylor overdosed and then 9/11 happened and plans never reformed after that. It would have been cool and VERY different. It is amazing how this argument comes up every single time there is a show and fans are loving Adam. The envy is inevitable. Adam is not standing in for Freddie cause Freddie is not coming back. Adam is singing with Queen because Brian and Roger chose him. He is the frontman today. Like it or not that is the way it is. Sure if it were up to some purists he would not be there cause they feel threatened for some strange reason. Some fans will think Adam sings better (oh the horror) and some will think Freddie, Paul, George or insert any name other than Adam can sing better. It does not matter. Freddie would be 71 so even if here, the show would not be the same. Adam is not Freddie but Freddie would not be an Adam Lambert either. Levine or Gaga or any other would not be the same as a show with Adam Lambert. These people are not interchangeable otherwise Brian and Roger would have gone after others earlier. Rolling eyes or ranting will not change anyone's opinion. If some can't enjoy or celebrate the collaboration between Adam and Queen because Adam is getting high marks, just remember it is not all about you. It is not even about Freddie cause those who loved him always will. His legacy is safe even if people and crazy over Adam. It is about Brian, Roger and Adam and the joy they are bringing to the fans today. It is too late to hope that Adam fails. The most one can do is pretend he is not good enough (or doesn't have a rock voice as if all rock voices are the same) if it makes you feel better. But the shows are a success because of his voice and showmanship and most fans are more than happy about it. Some will never be happy with him in the role and that is one reason I think the long speech about Freddie does not work. The resentment is in the blood of some and it will never go away. It will continue for generations to come, lol. Brian, Roger and Adam just ignore them and continue to put on great shows and the rest of us should ignore them as well. Queen and Adam are rocking arenas all over the world. Why that makes some angry is a mystery but they will get over it or not. Ok I've saved something special here...the point by point counterpoint. It is amazing how this argument comes up every single time there is a show and fans are loving Adam. The envy is inevitable. Not envious at all. Some fans love Adam, some fans like Adam, some don't. I highly enjoyed the show. So not envious in the slight. Every time this argument come up you bring up envy that I can't help but wonder if it's you who are envious that despite being dead for 25 years, reviewers, fans, Adam himself, and others still say that Freddie is the rock god and that it's an honor for him to be singing Queen songs? That you are worried somehow knowing Adam couldn't sell out these gigs on his own yet? He still may get there! Don't fret! When B&R hang it up, he may have found his song by then! Don't worry so much about trying to defend Adam We could argue all day but he is filling in because if Freddie was alive, there would be no choice. It would be Freddie up there whether his 71 year old self would still be good or not...it would be Freddie as he will always be considered Queen's frontman. Paul, Adam, everyone else will always end up being a footnote...and I'm not saying it's not an enjoyable footnote that millions of people are VERY happy about -myself included. I'm SUPER happy that Adam got me to see my idols one more time and he did a great job delivering the iconic songs that Freddie can't anymore. I would go 3 more times this year if I could and I will go back if they do another swing around the US. The first part is true but it's not because the feel threatened. They simply don't like Adam's take on things (oh the horror!) and it's not the same Queen they fell in love with. So they don't go. They actually rant very little. Most just say eh, not for me because Adam is too (whatever) or not enough (whatever) and that's it. And that's their viewpoint. I wasn't talking about the show or performance - I was talking pure box office and sales And whether you admit it or not. Queen + any of those artists would have sold the same. I could actually argue that Queen + Lady Ga Ga or whatever would have sold even better considering Ga Ga can sell out MSG and the like herself. Again Adam is a much better choice to sing with Queen so I'm happy they went that route...Q+LGG would have been awful I think. As far As B&R going after others earlier. See Paul Rodgers. See Robbie Williams. etc. They don't *GO AFTER* people. People interact with them, they enjoy working with someone and see what happens. Show me one time I have said anything about Adam getting "high marks"? I've never argued that he's not been successful in the role or that there aren't a large amount of fans enjoying the show. If you've read my review it's about 95% positive on Adam. This seems like paranoia here. Like you have to convince yourself.... You should listen to your man a bit more. Even he says it's about bringing Freddie's songs to a new audience. As long as Adam is singing Queen songs with Queen it is at least 1/4 about Freddie and even if some fans can't grasp that, I'm glad Adam does
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Post by irenerose on Aug 2, 2017 18:16:21 GMT -5
I see I am in the minority here, but I have no problem with Adam's speech about Freddie. I think he is totally right, that in every audience there are more than a few folks who are saying to one another "He's no Freddie Mercury!" That's their opinion going into the concert, and as they see Adam strut pompously across the stage and blast out vocals in the first section, they need to reinforce that opinion with others of their kind. Cannot surrender now! Adam simply brings that sentiment out in the open, and gives them his "blessing" to feel that way. Instead of trying to take Freddie's place on stage and in their hearts, the enemy to their hero, he joins the "loyal opposition" and agrees that, "Duh, of course I am not Freddie. I am a fellow fan. Freddie was great. He was incredibly talented. He was a singular being." Adam totally disarms them by joining in the Freddie fan club. Very smart, and very effective. Many of you think that Adam puts himself down with this speech. I respectfully disagree. He never puts down his own vocal abilities. He never says he can only hope to be as good a vocalist as Freddie. He doesn't put down his own composing abilities, either. The only Freddie trait he compares himself to sometimes, is being a fashionista; aspiring to equal Freddie there. (Which to me is different from putting down his ability or talent.) Acknowledging how great Freddie was and how beloved says absolutely nothing about Adam's own talents and abilities. Thinking back on the many interviews Adam has given where he addresses the issue of taking on the front man role with Queen, I cannot recall him expressing a lack of confidence in his own abilities compared to Freddie. He was intimidated by the legend. He worried if the audience and the band would accept him. He wondered if he could handle the weight of such a daunting repertoire in a full two hour gig. I do not recall him ever disparaging his own abilities compared to Freddie. When asked by interviewers if this is the gig of a lifetime or a dream come true, I have noted that Adam graciously dodges the question. It is a huge honor. It is one highlight of his career. But he doesn't say that he is undeserving, or unequal to Freddie, or is trying to be a satisfactory substitute for Freddie. I believe Adam knows full well how extraordinary his vocal abilities are. In the theater world where he grew up and navigated, he would HAVE to know he stood out from a teenager on forward. I believe he also knows there are many talented people in the performing world, and acknowledging their talent and success in no way diminishes his own capabilities. To me, THAT is what Adam does in his speech each night. Finally, Adam is an actor. He is performing a script. One that he has crafted, tried out, assessed audience response to, tweaked, and has down pat at this point. He recognizes the resistance, faces it head on, charms the opposition, and wins them over to the point where they can relax and enjoy the ride without having to defend Freddie. And without ever putting himself down or degrading his own abilities on that stage. Bravo! I agree Cassie My thoughts exactly, but I could never have put it into words, thank you.
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Post by liliane on Aug 2, 2017 18:21:20 GMT -5
Talon, I am not going to quote you because it is too long but I will say one thing. Even though, I respect and appreciate your contributions to this forum and admire your love for Queen and Freddie, to call Adam and Paul merely a footnote in Queen's history, is frankly insulting. Without Paul, Queen's history would have ended in 1991. Without Adam, it would have ended in 2009. And they have both sang with the band for 5 years, not 5 days.
Adam is the reason why Brian & Roger are still touring today and playing to as high as 80K people at a time. Despite the Freddie disclaimer, the majority of the reviewers and fans have been raving about the collaboration. Brian & Roger have both called Adam a gift from God and mentioned that they will not tour with anyone else but Adam. So Adam will probably be the last frontman for Queen and probably the last chapter to Queen's story. He will also be the frontman that this new generation of Queen fans will have seen live and remember for years to come just like how you still remember Freddie. B & R also seem to love him and have called him family. That sounds like more than a footnote to me.
However, that being said, it is my opinion that since QAL has not released any new material together, Adam cannot be considered a true frontman of the band and that it is Freddie's voice that will be heard for generations to come through the recordings. While I think that Freddie's voice was unique and great and that he was a legendary songwriter and musician, I still do prefer Adam's voice. It is beautiful, strong and more contemporary sounding to me. That is why I am a fan of Adam and that is why my loyalty lies with him.
I think of Adam first just like you think of Freddie first. But that does not mean that I cannot give Freddie his proper credit and dues. What a lot of Adam fans have a problem with is that Adam is never given the credit he deserves especially by some reviewers and some Queen fans. People seem to be thinking that doing what he does with Queen day in and day out is easy. If it was this easy to sing Queen songs, Freddie would not be the legend that he is. Nor would Queen songs be so butchered everytime someone tries to cover them. Also, why should Adam fans have to agree with these reviewers and some purists that obviously Adam is no Freddie and that he is always going to be an inferior stand-in? As a songwriter, musician, and place in the music industry, Freddie is definitely better. As vocalists, objectively speaking, they are different but at least equal. Also, before Freddie passed away, was he as universally acclaimed as he is now? From what I heard, these reviewers are doing to Adam what they did to Freddie. From what B & R said, I think they got worse reviews with Freddie back in the day vs what they are getting now with Adam. Sometimes, people don't realize how good someone is until they are no longer there...
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 2, 2017 19:50:47 GMT -5
Talon, I am not going to quote you because it is too long but I will say one thing. Even though, I respect and appreciate your contributions to this forum and admire your love for Queen and Freddie, to call Adam and Paul merely a footnote in Queen's history, is frankly insulting. Without Paul, Queen's history would have ended in 1991. Without Adam, it would have ended in 2009. And they have both sang with the band for 5 years, not 5 days. First off thank you so much for discussing it rationally and attempting to bridge the gap of where we have our differences. That is greatly appreciated. You are one of the good guys I will say I'm sorry you feel that way but I still feel that in 50 years when the history of the band is brought forth in say a 30 chapter book, the Freddie years will be 28 of those chapters, Paul would get a chapter, and Adam would get a chapter. Queen + IS a footnote because the only thing they do is tour. Touring is great and makes people happy, etc. It's wonderful. But in Queen's accomplishments....the ones that will remembered is the 1973-1991 (well 1995 with MIH) era. Everything else after that is gravy. Look I'm not shortselling. I never got to see Queen. I ONLY got to see Queen through Paul and Freddie - but Paul's contribution to the legacy of the band is two world tours, and a studio album (and a few live releases). It's not even considered part of the Queen discography. Same with Adam. LOVE them live and it's awesome but as to how it affects a legacy is not so much. A few world tours at the end of their career. And Supersonic (if that's it) won't be part of the Queen discography either....they already aren't! Go to Queenonline and check the discography out and look at live albums. They aren't listed. Neither is the QPR studio album. It's not MEANT to be insulting or demeaning. It's simply how it is. Since 1995's Made In Heaven - in 22 years. The band has released 1 studio album, and 4 live albums that wasn't from Queen. QPR released one studio album and 3 live albums (along with a lot of downloads of individual live tracks. QAL has released one live album. Before 1995 they released 15 studio albums, 3 live albums and multiple compiliations. In that same era after 1995 the original band has released 4 full live album/packages as well as numerous compilations. See why I call it a footnote? It's a fun footnote and allows the music to reach people even today but it's not the same thing as Queen 1973-1995. OK. I see this quote a lot. But I feel there is a big disclaimer. Adam is the reason. Why? Because Adam is who Brian and Roger chose and enjoy touring with after 2009. But it's not a matter of they COULDN'T do it otherwise. They WOULDN'T do it which is different. If Brian fell in love with Ga Ga's voice and Ga Ga wanted to, I bet you QGAGA would sell out just as well as QAL. (even with a shitty abbreviation - AND what would be nowhere near as good a show) 100% accurate. Agreed! 100% accurate. But let's be honest...A MAJOR reason why is Brian and Roger pushing 70. If QAL had happened around 2005 or so, than when Adam went off and did his solo thing and didn't want to perform with Queen, things may have changed. See that I disagree with. Those who came in as Adam fans first absolutely...but for Queen fans. Even those who LOVED what Adam did - still think of Freddie as the frontman. They think Adam did a great job and the concert was fun..but that Freddie is still the "voice of Queen" when they think of the songs. I think Adam will be remembered fondly for the tours he did but not quite like you think. Spike Edney is considered family too and If Spike Edney,who toured with the band for 30 + years including 3 tours with Freddie and Queen is considered in whole in general as a footnote....I think the same will be considered of Adam...especially as it's Queen + Adam. It's not Adam joining Queen. See that's just it. It's the studio recordings that will be what lasts and is the true legacy of Queen. QAL have gotten great reviews but not anything like Queen at Live Aid for example considered perhaps the finest performance in rock history. Wembley Stadium, considered an iconic gig. QAL haven't really had that long lasting moment like that. Without anything like that and without any super successful studio album, Adam is a footnote. It's kind of like Van Halen When David Lee Roth left VH, Sammy joined up and they were in their prime still and they released a ton of hit albums. When Sammy left they were kind of no longer in vague and Gary Cherone came in...they released one album that tanked and toured the world (and it was a successful tour). Gary left. You can barely find anything about Van Halen with Gary now. Album isn't in the discography, etc. Another similar example. Adam will not bein the Rock Hall of Fame with Queen. When VH was inducted David and Sammy were inducted. Mike generously mentioned Gary's time in VH during the speech but he's not in there. It would be the same now. You won't see Adam put in the HoF with Queen now. I definitely see that. I don't disagree on some levels. I think Adam has a pretty thankless job at times...and he does a HELLUVA job with B&R. He should get some more recognition from some hardcore Queen fans absolutely...But the problem is he WILL forever be a stand in to most people. Because he's stepping into a slot that was already made - songs already written and successful a long time ago, a touring machine that is all set up to go. He does well in his role of lead vocalist...which is why it is Queen + Adam Lambert. If he wasn't a stand in - it'd be just Queen touring. Like Journey does now with the guy they found on YouTube. Like the Doors did with Ian Astbury of the Cult. Like so many groups do. But in this case it's Queen (B&R) + Adam Lambert singing. As far as reviewers...well yes but there's more to it than that. The press hated Queen because they got where they were going without their help. In those days reviewers and critics basically made or broke bands. Queen didn't need them. After that instead of being nice, Freddie was an asshole to a press that was jackasses to them. And even worse as time went on one of Freddie's personal assistants made things even worse literally sabotaging any access to Freddie with the press. So it was always kind of a Queen vs the Press for different reasons than their music. Adam is FAR suaver and smoother with the press than Freddie EVER was. lol... Again, I don't mean any of my views to be disrespectful...It's just how I see things. Sometimes things are said here which are over the top the other way so I almost feel the need to provide a different viewpoint. I honestly feel I'm more neutral though I know some here won't see it that way. But to a lot of Queen fans I'm telling them to give him a chance, and that he pulls off a great show...and that I had a great time, etc. etc. I posted the same reviews here that I did on QOL for example (Minus the long extended intro)...so I'm the same in both places...Here I'm considered overly negative by some I'm sure, whereas there I'm overly positive I can't win...but I can't change my mind either :D Respectively. Me.
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Post by liliane on Aug 4, 2017 4:56:35 GMT -5
First off thank you so much for discussing it rationally and attempting to bridge the gap of where we have our differences. That is greatly appreciated. You are one of the good guys I will say I'm sorry you feel that way but I still feel that in 50 years when the history of the band is brought forth in say a 30 chapter book, the Freddie years will be 28 of those chapters, Paul would get a chapter, and Adam would get a chapter. Queen + IS a footnote because the only thing they do is tour. Touring is great and makes people happy, etc. It's wonderful. But in Queen's accomplishments....the ones that will remembered is the 1973-1991 (well 1995 with MIH) era. Everything else after that is gravy. Look I'm not shortselling. I never got to see Queen. I ONLY got to see Queen through Paul and Freddie - but Paul's contribution to the legacy of the band is two world tours, and a studio album (and a few live releases). It's not even considered part of the Queen discography. Same with Adam. LOVE them live and it's awesome but as to how it affects a legacy is not so much. A few world tours at the end of their career. And Supersonic (if that's it) won't be part of the Queen discography either....they already aren't! Go to Queenonline and check the discography out and look at live albums. They aren't listed. Neither is the QPR studio album. It's not MEANT to be insulting or demeaning. It's simply how it is. Since 1995's Made In Heaven - in 22 years. The band has released 1 studio album, and 4 live albums that wasn't from Queen. QPR released one studio album and 3 live albums (along with a lot of downloads of individual live tracks. QAL has released one live album. Before 1995 they released 15 studio albums, 3 live albums and multiple compiliations. In that same era after 1995 the original band has released 4 full live album/packages as well as numerous compilations. See why I call it a footnote? It's a fun footnote and allows the music to reach people even today but it's not the same thing as Queen 1973-1995. Thank you for the kind words and sorry for the delay in replying. With a full-time job and a baby, it does not leave much room in the day for me to post a reply I enjoy a good discussion and love hearing different viewpoints from non-Adam fans so I always do look forward to your posts. Likewise, I really appreciate your courteous replies as well. Now on to the discussion, as I mentioned myself, it is Freddie's voice singing Queen songs that will be heard for generations to come. It is he, along with John, Brian and Roger who wrote the songs, toured them for decades and made them famous. QAL has not released any new material and Adam has never been inducted into Queen so of course I do agree that in terms of Queen's legacy and discography, Adam does not really have a part in all that and should not either because he did not contribute in all that. What he did do though, is along with B & R, extend Queen's history to 2017, bringing the music live into the 20th century and introducing it back into the mainstream. QAL has toured all over the world to audiences spanning many generations to both commercial and critical success. Queen and Freddie are being talked about almost daily now in the press because of the tour. QAL's success also reinforces and proves to people how timeless Queen's music is. I believe this adds to Queen's legacy and is part of its history. Instead of having Queen's history end in 2009 with the critical failure of The Cosmos Rocks and the Q+PR tours, Adam is helping Queen to stay in the mainstream up until now to both commercial and critical success after the departure of Freddie. Essentially, Adam is the last frontman for the band and they seem to be headed to end Queen's history on a high. Also, I think you are underestimating the importance of the tours. The recordings are of course the works that stay in music history, that people listen to in generations to come, but it is the tours that remain an experience for people and usually it is that experience that remains personal in people's hearts and memories. The little girl that accompanies her Dad, Mom and Grandpa to a QAL concert today, is hearing Queen's music live through Adam's voice. Of course, in her mind she knows Freddie was the frontman of the band but her experience was with Adam, not Freddie. Casual fans and the general public do not really care about music history and do not know how many albums, live albums, DVDs, the band has released. Only die-hards do. But the casual fans and the general public will know when a tour hits their hometown and if they decide to go, there is a chance these people will become fans of the music and will go back to discover Queen's back catalogue. I am 36 and my peers know Queen but none of them are fans or really know the catalogue. They are all into current artists. I was able to drag three of them with me to the Montreal concert and they all loved the concert. You can bet that they know more about Queen now than they did before the concert. So all in all, if there was a 30 chapters book about Queen's history, Freddie gets the beginning of the book and the first 28 chapters, Paul one chapter and Adam, one chapter. Agree with that. That is fair. But Adam gets that last chapter and the ending. And instead of a sad ending, it could be a happy ending instead, as happy as it can be (with Freddie's early passing, I guess you can't really say that it can ever be a true happy ending). But the fact that it won't be near as good of a show is the problem and that is why I said Adam is THE reason. B & R could tour with anyone current and popular and they would sell out, true. But would they have gotten such a good reception from both critics and fans? Such good word of mouth? Such hyperbole after each concert that this was the best show ever...? If Gaga's performance of Another One Bites the Dust in Australia is anything to go by, the show wouldn't be that good. It was just bad and she IS a good singer. Why do you think they never bothered to tour with anyone but Paul & Adam in all these years? Maybe it is because they never felt that anyone could ever measure up to Freddie? Until Adam came along? But the contrary could have happened as well. Why does QAL not want to release new material? Maybe it is because B & R are pushing 70 and just do not want to mess with their legacy? If they had met earlier maybe they could have released new material, toured together that new material and who knows maybe they would have been so happy with Adam that they might even think of just calling themselves Queen instead of QAL. Who really knows what could have happened... But we know what happened and what is happening now and that is what is going to be in Queen's history: Adam will probably be the last frontman for Queen. I think I already addressed this point a bit earlier in my reply. Of course, there is no question that Freddie will always remain the voice of Queen. I am not disputing Freddie's importance. He was the face and voice of the band and will always remain so. I just think Adam is more important than a footnote. He will be remembered as an extension of Queen and the last frontman for the band. Spike might be considered family too but you cannot compare a touring member with a frontman. A frontman is part of the band, a touring member is not. The question is not what the die-hards know but what the general public knows. It is Adam's face and name that is all over the press, not Spike. Of course, Adam will not be found in the discography of Queen nor will he be inducted into the hall of fame with Queen. QAL haven't released any new material together. It would be sacrilegious to even consider putting Adam in the hall of fame with Queen. In my opinion, it is just as sacrilegious to consider Adam and his contributions a mere footnote in Queen's history. But the thing is, it is not an all or nothing. Adam is not part of the discography but he is a part of Queen's history. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_(band)Looks like more than a footnote to me. I'll address your last point another day, gotta catch up on some sleep
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talon
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Post by talon on Aug 4, 2017 16:21:44 GMT -5
Thank you for the kind words and sorry for the delay in replying. With a full-time job and a baby, it does not leave much room in the day for me to post a reply I enjoy a good discussion and love hearing different viewpoints from non-Adam fans so I always do look forward to your posts. Likewise, I really appreciate your courteous replies as well. No worries! Full time job, wife and three kids. I know the time crunch at times. I'm lucky in that I sometimes have time at work where I can sneak in a reply or two I kind of feel as if the word choice of footnote may be part of the problem here and our viewpoints on it but it's better if I tackle your comments bit by bit. Boom. We agree. Hugs. LOL. I don't disagree with your first statement at all. Adam has extended Queen's currency date by being able to tour with him. Queen and Freddie are getting or rather staying in people's heads for longer. I would even say it adds to the importance of Queen by helping to highlight B&R's contributions which Freddie often overshadowed (through no fault of his own - if you ever interview him, he'd be the first to point out the importance of the band, etc. Where we seem to disagree is how much it helps the legacy. To me it has little effect on the legacy...to me the legacy can't really be harmed (as some Queen fans seem to thing) or helped. The legacy is what it is. Now, it does perhaps help lengthen the legacy...but perhaps that is semantics. Perhaps I do underestimate it a bit. But I think sometimes you (and that's the royal you, lol) perhaps overestimate them. See the next bit. See we agree there. But I feel sometimes as if some (perhaps not you) seem to overestimate the touring so that Adam gets like 5+ chapters or something when I say the book is written, the chapters done, the story is just about over. What we're seeing now is an epilogue of sorts...of course it's a happy epilogue - a fun epilogue and perhaps one that can soften the blow for some (like myself that never got to see Queen live) but still an epilogue. I guess I see what you are saying but how can you know that? Can you really count the one Ga Ga performance against her given they probably had a day of rehearsal, etc. The truth is we have no idea how the reception would be. So to me this is a non-argument. The only argument to be made when discussing this IS how it would sell and I think that it goes without saying that it would have sold. Everything else is complete speculation. Fair enough. In fact the relative critical failure of The Cosmos Rocks, IS one of the reasons B&R are a bit hesitant to record under the Queen banner. I woudn't go crazy regarding calling themselves Queen lol. I feel extremely confident it wouldn't. Well posting the Queen Wikipedia page to me actually highlights my points more: - I did a basic word count. 18,939 words. How many are about QAL? 584. That to me IS a footnote.
- 1.1-1.7 & 1.9 are Queen. 1.8 is QPR, 1.10 is QAL
- QPR and QAL are placed under Associated Acts
- Members - Long Term Queen + Vocalists and then underneath: OTHER Guest vocalists
I guess when I say footnote I mean that at the end of the story on the history of Queen which would end with Freddie passing and the band releasing Made In Heaven. There would be a brief blurb that says: A decade later, Brian and Roger resurrected the name and toured the world with Paul Rodgers and released an album under the moniker of Queen + Paul Rodgers. After that split, Brian and Roger teamed up with Adam Lambert whose voice and performance fit the Queen mold better, and the new Queen + Adam Lambert toured the world several times over to great success. That's a footnote to the long history of Queen. It is perhaps MORE important to the current concertgoers....but I'd argue that QPR was just as important and is now considered a footnote. I guess the real answer is...we won't know the answer until the collaboration ends. I look forward to your reply
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Post by nica575 on Aug 4, 2017 20:26:35 GMT -5
lol folks..really...we had a discussion re "stand in", now re "foot note"... I think the FACT IS that it is what it is for each one of us, at least for those who care = very few super fans of Freddie and very few super fans of Adam. That's about it. anyway...carry on...
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