Albiku
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@Albiku
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Post by Albiku on Mar 19, 2013 12:28:54 GMT -5
I want to begin by making it perfectly clear that I think Adam will be fine in St. Petersburg. He's a smart guy. I am also with those of the opinion that Adam just being who he is and traveling to places that are notoriously intolerant of gays is enough of a statement. Unlike Gaga or Madonna, he doesn't have to announce his support, he just has to be there with his fabulous talent and his ardent, fanatical fans. (I'm picturing the long lines in the blizzard!)  I completely agree with you.  But since there has been discussion of what life is like today "behind what was the Iron Curtain" I thought I'd add a current anecdote. My son just got back from a semester abroad in St. Pete's. He loved the city for the most part, enjoyed the Hooka lounges at night. He also was afraid for any of the girls to be on their own in the evenings but had only one truly scary incident. While crossing the street a car basically stopped so close he had to jump away and instictually hit the hood of the car with his hand in anger/protest. The driver got out with a big knife and came after him, along with his 2 passengers. My son apologized profusely, or as profusely as he could with his elementary Russian, while trying to keep himself between the men and the girl he was with. I guess they took pity on the foreigner and eventually retreated back to their abandoned car but, DS was scared shitless. Of course he didn't tell us about this until he got home, thank God. ??? Whoa, scary!!!! So glad nothing happened!!! :-/ |
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ayleim
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Post by ayleim on Mar 19, 2013 12:30:22 GMT -5
There are multiple tomes on exactly where MEANING resides...in the speaker/writer, or in the listener/reader. If....as most on this board have claimed when misinterpreted, we believe that meaning resides in the speaker...his/her intentions and understanding...then OOL is a gay reference point and somewhat anthemic. Adam has stated that quite often. He has openly claimed this album as a gift to his brothers. Shady is about cruising for sex, which for Adam, is gay sex in gay bars. If we prefer to make the claim that meaning resides in the interpretation and that this is a legitimate MEANING, then yes, OOL can mean most anything to anyone....and we need to rethink our defence of our words when another takes an alternate meaning that has given offence. My comments have no validity in any discussion of Adam's safety as I have never been to St Petersberg or Russia and many of you are far more knowledgeable on that score. What I do believe is that it is disingenuous to suggest that OOL is not about gay love. Adam has gone into contortions to try and find 'inclusive' meanings for his songs....but sometimes it simply is what it is. In my truly humble opinion...I believe Adam is very brave...and part of that bravery is in never letting it be seen that he thinks of his actions as brave...just as ordinary...or what SHOULD be ordinary. OOL is about gay love. But it's also about non-gay love. And if it's being heard by someone who isn't thinking about gay relationships in the first place, I don't think it actually leads a person there at all. That's why I was asking about the lyrics, whether I was missing some slang or reference in the lyrics that would refer to same-sex relationships.
If it's an anthem for the LGBT community - I'm not trying to take anything away from that. It just bugs me personally when the authorities label OOL as gay (to the general public) when it isn't really - outside of Adam, his fans and the LGBT community. And homophobes. Hence my irritation with that advisory issued by the Singapore government "to protect the youth" - I can see why Shady could raise concerns - there are innuendos and hints which parents might want to be aware of; but OOL? Anyone reading anything "gay" in the lyrics already knows the background - no need to worry about introducing "influences"! Listeners can relate to the emotion in the song, realise Adam is talking from his viewpoint as a gay man, and maybe understand a little better.
Drat, I hope this explains things a little better. And I'll shut up about this pet peeve from now on. Promise. |
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Post by adamrocks on Mar 19, 2013 12:30:30 GMT -5
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Post by Craazyforadam on Mar 19, 2013 12:35:16 GMT -5
I want to address the suggestion made on page one to write to partner/sister cities to encourage them to discontinue their partnerships with St. Petersburg. I am not sure whether you are aware what happens within such programs. The number one activity is cultural exchange. As in...our choir gets to visit your city and have a concert there and your choir comes to your city next year...usually families get to know each other and friendships develop. Sometimes people even get to stay with the families from the other city.
When I was younger, for many people from eastern countries this was their one and only way to ever visit the west. They encountered what living in the west was really like, compared to their propaganda stories about the 'bad west', and they brought those insights back home with them. Thousands of teenagers got to visit our city this way and ten or twenty years later, across the whole population there was enough support that eventually even the wall came down. That was 1989.
Today travel is restricted only by economic realities, not political ones. Yet many artists in St. Petersburg do not have the finances to just travel the world on the spur of the moment. We all know that especially in the artistic community many LGBT members reside. Cultural exchange with a sister city is one way for them to ever get out, experience for example the chance to visit a gay bar without fearing to be beaten up, interacting with counter parts, creating a network of international friends.
For others who are not gay, but are hearing the local propaganda of 'western perverts' and 'terrible influence on children' etc. it is important to see a healthy family environment, where the uncle is gay or the teacher or the hair dresser and it does not become the start for either ridicule or even hate. It is important to open minds and make people think. Travel to other cultures makes this happen.
If you want to isolate the artist community that is facing oppression in their own culture even further, just do what is suggested on page 1. Let's drop all partner programs and make sure they can never get out and the local ignorance is never changed.
Instead of writing to your local government to drop the partnership programs, it is much wiser to rather get active there, encourage exchange with communities in whatever you are personally involved in...arts, sports, school classes, etc. and allow for cultural enrichment to happen. This is how minds are opened beyond what they hear at home and this is how eventually thaw weather will come over these presently icy laws. One person at a time. This is the way to fight such ignorance.
It also is much more in the spirit of Adam who takes his art there, and does not say, 'if you have such bigoted laws then I want to discontinue contact with you'. He does the opposite. And his visibility is creating attention and conversation, even here.
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Post by cassie on Mar 19, 2013 12:37:41 GMT -5
I assume all the FRECKLES fans on this forum have enjoyed the pictures Wal posted on page 2. That mini-vacation in Bali, baking in the sun brought them out nicely, don't you think? |
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Post by mszue on Mar 19, 2013 12:40:31 GMT -5
There are multiple tomes on exactly where MEANING resides...in the speaker/writer, or in the listener/reader. If....as most on this board have claimed when misinterpreted, we believe that meaning resides in the speaker...his/her intentions and understanding...then OOL is a gay reference point and somewhat anthemic. Adam has stated that quite often. He has openly claimed this album as a gift to his brothers. Shady is about cruising for sex, which for Adam, is gay sex in gay bars. If we prefer to make the claim that meaning resides in the interpretation and that this is a legitimate MEANING, then yes, OOL can mean most anything to anyone....and we need to rethink our defence of our words when another takes an alternate meaning that has given offence. My comments have no validity in any discussion of Adam's safety as I have never been to St Petersberg or Russia and many of you are far more knowledgeable on that score. What I do believe is that it is disingenuous to suggest that OOL is not about gay love. Adam has gone into contortions to try and find 'inclusive' meanings for his songs....but sometimes it simply is what it is. In my truly humble opinion...I believe Adam is very brave...and part of that bravery is in never letting it be seen that he thinks of his actions as brave...just as ordinary...or what SHOULD be ordinary. OOL is about gay love. But it's also about non-gay love. And if it's being heard by someone who isn't thinking about gay relationships in the first place, I don't think it actually leads a person there at all. That's why I was asking about the lyrics, whether I was missing some slang or reference in the lyrics that would refer to same-sex relationships.
If it's an anthem for the LGBT community - I'm not trying to take anything away from that. It just bugs me personally when the authorities label OOL as gay (to the general public) when it isn't really - outside of Adam, his fans and the LGBT community. And homophobes. Hence my irritation with that advisory issued by the Singapore government "to protect the youth" - I can see why Shady could raise concerns - there are innuendos and hints which parents might want to be aware of; but OOL? Anyone reading anything "gay" in the lyrics already knows the background - no need to worry about introducing "influences"! Listeners can relate to the emotion in the song, realise Adam is talking from his viewpoint as a gay man, and maybe understand a little better.
Drat, I hope this explains things a little better. And I'll shut up about this pet peeve from now on. Promise.I do understand where you are coming from and my comments are made in the context of the ongoing conversation re Adam and any dangers of singing this in St Petersberg. Again...I also do not expect him to have any problems at all....but, if authorities decided to make an example of him, they could make a very strong case. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN....of that I am fairly sure....I just say it is not outside the boundaries of the possible. He wrote this song and he sings the lines: They say WE'LL rot in hell...I don't think WE will. When he sings it, he is singing about GAY love....I don't see that as controversial. If others want to personalize that for them selves of mean something different when they sing it...good. But as sung and as performed by Adam Lambert...and we are talking about ADAM PERFORMING THIS SONG IN ST. PETERSBURG..that is what it means. Am I wrong here? ETA...WHEN YOU WRITE " It just bugs me personally when the authorities label OOL as gay (to the general public) when it isn't really - outside of Adam, his fans and the LGBT community." I feel the same way...but the problem, to me, is not the label Gay....BECAUSE IT IS GAY...the problem is the assumption that being GAY and wearing the gay label, is wrong. to me...that is a big difference.... |
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Post by tinafea on Mar 19, 2013 12:41:43 GMT -5
If you have already stated your concern/opinion about Adam performing in St. Petersburg please don't repeat your opinion unless you have something new to add. I am not closing the discussion, I just don't want to see it start repeating itself
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Post by durberville on Mar 19, 2013 12:44:14 GMT -5
But since there has been discussion of what life is like today "behind what was the Iron Curtain" I thought I'd add a current anecdote. My son just got back from a semester abroad in St. Pete's. He loved the city for the most part, enjoyed the Hooka lounges at night. He also was afraid for any of the girls to be on their own in the evenings but had only one truly scary incident. While crossing the street a car basically stopped so close he had to jump away and instictually hit the hood of the car with his hand in anger/protest. The driver got out with a big knife and came after him, along with his 2 passengers. My son apologized profusely, or as profusely as he could with his elementary Russian, while trying to keep himself between the men and the girl he was with. I guess they took pity on the foreigner and eventually retreated back to their abandoned car but, DS was scared shitless. Of course he didn't tell us about this until he got home, thank God. ??? This can (and does) happen in any city in the U.S.....of course the difference being the person would probably jump out with a gun and would likely shoot first and ask questions later. yep....my husband works in downtown Newark. The stories he tells...... |
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Post by adamrocks on Mar 19, 2013 12:58:49 GMT -5
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Post by evamaria on Mar 19, 2013 13:01:49 GMT -5
Who is freaking out.. I was in St. Petersburg 7 years ago before this overt government anti- gay policy took place..I just think a twitter campaign with OOL is not a great idea for ME.As far as Adam singing it .. Great. People are sharing their feelings.. have you visited Russia?.. Most of the everyday people are lovely.. the govt. not so much.. the rise of the new Cossacks .. Hate with govt. approval.Just saying.. Things have changed because of the hate campaign against gays in this particular city by a particular mean spirited politician. freaking out might have been harsh.....but there is some def angst and worrying. Adam has a team of people and he's a smart man. I don't see him doing anything to cause controversy while he's there. He had no issues in Moscow so I'm sure he'll have no issues in St. Petersburg. I've never visited Russia, I wish I was in a position to travel like that...perhaps when I'm older, like many of the ladies on here, I can enjoy those luxuries. The stories about all the places you guys have been makes me hope that when I'm your age I've done even half as much As for the gov v. the people, the same can be said of the majority of countries IMO, including the U.S. No. I'm sorry, but it has nothing to do with age or experience, but with simple knowledge, independent of age or experience. My own fourteen year old can, and has discovered the ugly truth about Russia through simple and quick research. You can not equate the US or the rest of Europe with Russia when it comes to GLBT rights. Adam is a smart guy, and he must realize that his presence in Russia is controversial by virtue of his own open espousal of gay rights, given Russia's distressing attitudes towards the GLBT community. |
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