2.10.14 Adam+Melissa would be epic!, more FECLA Awards

2.10.14 Adam+Melissa would be epic!, more FECLA Awards Feb 10, 2014 11:34:02 GMT -5

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Post by talon on Feb 10, 2014 11:34:02 GMT -5

Feb 10, 2014 10:25:51 GMT -5 cassie said:

Talon, thanks for your detailed explanation of Queen fans' reaction to Adam as frontman. Their "arguments" or tenets actually make some kind of strange sense. Sorta.

I have always thought that Paul Rogers was eventually accepted (or at least tolerated) because he was so different from Freddie there could never be any talk of him being Freddie's "replacement." Different vocal range, different tones and character to his voice, different interpretations, different performance style, different style/appearance choices with no attempt to be theatrical. Paul mainly stood there and belted out the songs. Period. In lower keys. He did not have Freddie's range or Freddie's showmanship, and didn't strive to. It was patently impossible for Rogers to equal Freddie's performances vocally or visually. Or even come close. Rogers was "safe".

Is part of fans' antipathy toward Adam based on the concern that Adam is often compared to Freddie favorably? No, he doesn't look or sound like Freddie, but he can match most of Fredddie's range and power vocally. Truth be told, as a live performer, Adam's upper range exceeds what Freddie was able to sing after blowing out his voice. I am no Freddie expert, but from the videos of Queen live performances, Adam's voice has more power than Freddie's, too. Could it be that Adam is seen as a "threat" to Freddie's supremacy as a vocalist?

Freddie was wonderfully theatrical on stage. He chewed up that stage, front to back, left to right. While Adam is not imitating Freddie, he certainly studied Freddie's performances for years, admired his theatricality and took notes about how to own a stage, a performance and an audience. Is it possible that Queen fans see Adam performing and, instead of thinking "Oh, he is a showman in the spirit of Freddie... he fits well into the Queen persona," they think, "He is invading Freddie's territory"?

It seems possible that for some Freddie fans, Adam is somehow a direct threat to Freddie's status as the best frontman in rock. (Those rock fans at DDD actually ranked Adam higher than Freddie in vocal technique!) Some heretics have even had the nerve to say that Adam's voice and performance style EQUAL Freddie's or Adam is the natural inheritor of Freddie's crown. There are even a few "lunatics" who say that Adam is a better singer than Freddie (and better looking and sexier, too). And the student should never surpass the master.

Just my thoughts on the matter, since there is no news AGAIN today.

There might be that aspect of it but I don't think they see him as a threat but more are shocked that AL fans could see him as better....especially since he's doing Queen material! I mean it's like if someone else were to sing an Adam track and someone saying that "Oh god that guy really sings it better than Adam did. I mean I respect Adam, but seriously? Joe Blow owned that song!"

And part of it being the type of fandom that AL attracts. AL fans (and I'm treading carefully...hopefully not offending

) tend to gush...a bit more than most fanbases about their subject of devotion! So when Queen fans interact with gushing AL fans, it's a bit like "Who the fuck is THIS? Are you fucking kidding me? This guy's been here for 15 minutes and has 1 hit song in America and you're comparing him to a hall of fame legend?"

-- Now myself, I take the gushing in stride. I'm glad you all love him like you do and good for him

Feb 10, 2014 10:27:27 GMT -5 Q3 said:

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For starters, what is a "die hard Queen fan"? Is it a 19 year old Queen fan who is passionate about Freddie. Is it someone who actually saw Queen in Montreal live vs. on video and therefore considers themselves a Queen expert? Is it someone who knows all the Queen facts? Or is it someone (now over 60 years old) who saw Queen in the 70's when Freddie was outrageous and stunning. Who has decided what these fans think?

That's a very valid point. I guess I should use the term...purists. I mean obviously I am a DIEHARD Queen fan but I don't think the way these fans do. BUT the purists tend to be die hards. I guess what I'm saying is While not all die-hards are purists, 95% of purists are die-hards...

>> I take the comments of some people who post about Queen and Freddie online and the comments of "rock purists" with a big lump of salt. The US "rock purists" mostly were not Queen fans in 1980, so what do they matter now.

That is true - there is a good portion of "purists" who would dismiss a lot of the 80s and just cherished the bands 70s output (and then 1991's Innuendo which is seen by many as a return to form).

Even in London for a GA show, there were only about 100 people in line for Q+AL Hammersmith -- and about half were there for Adam. Just not seeing evidence that there are all these "die hard" fans. Yes, there was "Japanese Freddie" who is always present. But Adam has a few of those fans too.

That's part of the issue. There are many Queen fans who have decided to stay home rather than pay high ticket prices to see QAL. I'm very interested to see how a US QAL tour sells and secondly the demographic. Despite Queen (the brand so to speak) has a higher overall fanbase than AL I would bet it's closer to 50-50.

I mean let's face it touring in general...even if Freddie were around today, I'd bet Queen would have lost some audience on a tour (unless it was a rarity and they only toured like once every 5-10 years.) Then a lot of Queen fans stayed home for the QPR tour and as that decreases we get to QAL. So I wouldn't be shocked if it sells less.

Not saying that will happen and I hope it doesn't but I don't really know.

***

I attended many Queen concerts in the early years. The band was powerful, Brian's guitar framed the sound of Queen live, John Deacon's bass line and Rogers beat powered the crowd but it was all about the experience and power of Freddie, his magnificent presence. I never once heard anyone walk out of a Queen concert and say one word about some note Freddie hit. It did not matter, although he was a stunning vocalist, it was not the most outstanding thing about seeing Freddie live. It was his outrageous, his reckless abandon, his ability to control each person in the audience completely.

I'm so jealous :( My biggest regret is not being older than I am

I was 6 when they last toured the US.

With all due respect, this focus on cataloging notes people hit on spreadsheets and comparing vocalists and discussion about goat vibratos which permeates some of the rock forums is something that would have been mocked by most rock aficionados in 1979. It is not want what rock music was about.

Very good point. Another reason I really missed my period of music to be honest! I did see QPR and was blown away by the majesty of the concert. I fully admit though that my glasses may have been rose colored as I had been a fan of them since 1991ish and 2005 was the first time I got to see any of them. And it was a big arena - their first US show since 1982 and so how could it NOT have been good?

**

I honestly think that when Queen + Adam Lambert tours the US the "die hard" fans in the audience will mostly be Adam Lambert fans. Sure there will be Queen fans in the audience but a lot of "die hard" Queen fans in the US. I really doubt it.

Sadly I agree. But I'll do my best to make up

Finally, I am looking forward to seeing Queen + Adam Lambert in the US. I hope to be at a number of shows. I have high expectations. But I have no expectation that it will be anything like seeing Queen live in 1979. I have changed. Music has changed. And Freddie and John Deacon will not be there. We can never go back again, but we can have great new experiences.

I would love to see multiple, I'll probably only get to go to one or maybe two but either way I'm excited. I just want to see Brian and Roger one more time and seeing Adam is in no way a bad thing to this Queen fan so it should work well for me.

**

An aside: I am not a "die hard Queen fan" but I am a long time Queen fan and clearly an Adam fan -- and the only thing I now despise about Queen + Adam Lambert is when people refer to it as Queenbert which I did for a while before I realizes it 1. Removed ADAM from the name, and 2. Mangles "Queen" into something else, and 3. Is apparently annoying to Queen fans. I recommend we stop using this term. Also, I think it is certainly better for Adam's social media presence/rating to use his full name.

LOL. I've always hated Queenbert. I always liked using QAL myself..although I admit that was a holdover from me using QPR for Queen + Paul Rodgers.

Feb 10, 2014 10:37:31 GMT -5 @kay said:

Thank you Talon. You have given us lots of insight and wisdom over the years!

As Q3said better, I do think you are greatly underestimating the numbers of casual fans. I think there are many more people who have enjoyed Queen through the decades but who would never consider joining any fan club or online forums and whose voices you never hear in the fandom but who are singing along on the radio and at events by the millions.

Perhaps I do underestimate. I hope I do!

Perhaps I should not say this. I try to put myself in the Queen fans' shoes and I do sympathize, really, but I just can't keep nodding and saying nothing. Based on your description--- what an elitist, entiled bunch who are so blind with their own certainty of how the world should work just as it always has--in their small little, UK/rock centric, days gone by viewfinder, that they refuse to recognize that the music still holds the magic--and a master "once in a lifetime" interpreter like Adam can capture some of it for them if only they were willing to sit down, shut up and listen. What a waste that this collaboration is going to bring such joy to so many, but not to the ones who deserve it the most. I hope I never get to the point that I don't recognize true artistry because I am too busy wearing my shroud of mourning and going over the checklist to feel.
Rant over, sorry.

I hope so too. I know some of it is human nature. They want their Queen. What they fell in love with. They see this as Brian and Roger's misguided attempt at relevancy. While I see it as more of a love the songs, play the songs. that's why I'm very at peace with it. As long as I see Brian and Roger playing the songs I love I'm happy. (I'd be happier if John unretired).

Feb 10, 2014 10:39:33 GMT -5 @mys*&@^#r50 said:

Don't mean to be rude & talon I love having you here so this does not refer to you!

But I really don't give a fuck what the stuck in the 70s/80s Queen fans think about Adam with Queen! If he's good enough for Brian and Roger, he should be good enough for any Queen fans!

See you guys tomorrow!!

No offense taken. I know AL fans take a browbeating at times at Queen sites (although there are a few fans on both sides that could use a good shutting up tbh)...so I understand the need to frustratingly say fuck it!

Feb 10, 2014 10:47:41 GMT -5 Q3 said:

I agree with Talon's list being representative of the general opinion and like your responses. Here are a few more thoughts.

2. Be from the UK.

How long does someone need to live in the UK to count? Farrokh Bulsara (Freddie Mercury) was born in Stone Town, Zanzibar (now Tanzania), raised in India, and moved to the UK when he was 17 years old. He became a member of the band we know as Queen 5 years later. So if Adam moves to the UK for 5 years, does that make him worthy?

Very good point. I guess it's more of an AL has to move to the UK, become a British citizen, and become a British institution

4. Be someone who can challenge Brian and Roger

I think Adam does challenge Brian and Roger artistically which is what matters IMO.

They don't think he challenges them enough. He is VERY artistic but as for song choices, arrangement, he's probably a yes-man. Again not a slight to Adam from me. In fact in his position he's damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. If he does challenge them, it's "who the hell does he think he is?" If he doesn't, the musical output could potentially suffer. Chalk this up to can't a win situation.

5. Be someone from the rock world

What rock world? Take a look at rock in the US today. The biggest current rock bands are Maroon 5 and Imagine Dragons. And there is You Me at Six in the UK. But other than this indie/pop/alt rock acts, there are just classic era rock bands whose lead vocalists are over 50 or frontmen who are not big enough or female pop singers.

That adds an important aspect too. I think that adds fuel to their fire. They are generally rock fans. And their music is dying. There is very little rock left in mainstream music. So putting someone from this "non-rock" world is just another sign of rock dying...and their very heroes are adding to it by allowing a non-rocker to infiltrate the ranks

May I add one more that should have been on the list --
6. The lead singer needs to be a powerful entertainer (although no one can be Freddie in this respect). Queen's frontman needs to be able to do more than just stand at a mike and sing. He must be a showman. That is one thing that really made Queen a stunning live act.

Well I would agree with that aspect as well.

I just want to add one wish -- I wish John Deacon would come out of retirement for just a few more shows.

As I just said - you and me both sister!