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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 11:47:21 GMT -5
Gosh! I hope Brian and Roger aren't too low on the list of parties interested in this tour, seeing as they have to go out there and play and stuff every night . . .
Why try to quantify who wants it/benefits from it most?
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Kamar
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Post by Kamar on Mar 9, 2014 12:01:40 GMT -5
I'm betting on a live Queenbert DVD + Album . Kinda like what Adam did with his Glam Nation Tour .
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Post by Q3 on Mar 9, 2014 12:03:25 GMT -5
Rolling Stone may have issues mapped out for the year (some extremely generic). Plans can change. Who would have predicted Adam's cover? If you go back and look, one of the biggest stories in music in April 2009 was Adam and Idol. It was newsworthy because he agreed to come out in the magazine. And, actually, several fans predicted it based on the other Idol alum who got the June 2003 RS Cover, Clay Aiken. *** The most surprising RS cover to me was the Pope Frank cover. Never thought I would see a pope on the cover of Rolling Stone. So yes, anything is possible. *** If there is a Rolling Stone cover, it will be Adam + Queen, not Queen + Adam. They pick topical, newsworthy covers. Current cover is Justin Bieber -- shirtless "Bad Boy". *** One the cancelled Lady Gaga September 2013 cover -- heck yeah, they cancelled that. How stupid would RS have looked if they named Gaga Women of the Year in September 2013? She is big and her tour will rake in ungodly amounts of money, but she is not the hot new thing. She is not even the hottest woman in Pop Music. *** I am not saying a RS cover is impossible, just saying it is very, very unlikely. RS is at least covering this tour and seems really supportive of it. They did not even cover the Queen + PR Tour -- and that was more newsworthy -- first tour in 20 years and PR was very famous in his own right (Free, Bad Company). They will not get a RS cover just because Queen/Brian and Roger are touring with Adam. Brian and Roger as very unlikely to do anything that RS considers newsworthy. So the only possibility would be that Adam does something cover-worthy. And then, why would they include his two "grandpas"? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:20:37 GMT -5
Hope it is OK to post this here. It is from another site, but I just love this comment!  It really is a great "AI Story". I don't think the show itself/Ryan has ever mentioned the partnership on air, but they should because its a good story for the show: unknown guy sings BoRap at Idol audition, makes it to finale, sings w/meets Brian and Roger at finale; they have great chemistry and discuss maybe working together in future, guy embarks on solo career that has him net grammy nomination, hit records, tours the world, etc. but B&R keep in touch; when they need a singer for a big European award show, they call him - the response so good they book a few full gigs in Europe; then they do a high profile US radio festival, response so good they decide to do full blown NA tour. A little over 5 years from when the American public is first introduced to Adam he is on GMA and at MSG with B&R announcing NA tour. Cool story |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:21:01 GMT -5
Most people have heard the word "rhetoric" but sometimes it's fun to stop and think about what it actually is. Rhetoric is just the art of constructing an argument, and rhetorical devices are just the different techniques used to make your argument stick. We usually think of rhetoric in terms of politics but really it is used all the time -- even right here on little old Adamtopia. Of course, not all arguments are created equal. When you have a weak argument, but you still want to defend it -- that is, you don't want to concede that you lost the argument -- there are certain rhetorical devices you can fall back on. One of these devices is called moving the goalposts. An example might be an argument about whether a given person would be a good frontman for the rock band Queen. You might start with the position that a given person -- say, Adam Lambert -- should be a brilliant interpreter of the music of Queen. Until he proves that, he is not a suitable frontman. So now suppose Adam Lambert performs with Queen many times and proves he is indeed a brilliant interpreter of the music. Then you might move the goalposts and say that just being a brilliant interpreter is not enough. Now, in order to be a suitable frontman for Queen, a given person has to be able to work as a creative collaborator with Brian and Roger, challenging them to do new work and acting as more or less an equal to them. I believe such an argument was advanced here several weeks ago. So now suppose such a possibility was advanced in an press conference, however casually. Suppose it was suggested that Adam Lambert might indeed work creatively with Queen at some point. This might seem awkward, but not if you move the goalposts. Now, you might argue, that would be all very well, but all it would really prove was that the collaborator was, well ... a bit of a loser. Someone who could stand toe-to-toe with Brian and Roger, perhaps, but until achieving a rip-roaring commercial hit on his own, lacking nonetheless. Rhetorical devices are really pretty interesting to think about. Sometimes they really make you wonder about arguments and the people who make them. Thank you so much for this post!!! Thanks for teaching me something new, and for writing intelligently about something I have noticed happen over and over again. ( It was driving me crazy, but I wasn't able to identify the problem, or talk intelligently about it). I would LOVE if you wrote more about other rhetorical devices. For example, when people say things that are only partially true and 'sell' them as complete truths, and you can't argue that what they say is untrue because it probably isn't, it just isn't the complete truth and feels inaccurate, it paints a false picture? You know what I mean? What a mess of a sentence, sorry:))) |
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talon
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Post by talon on Mar 9, 2014 12:24:16 GMT -5
This conversation started yesterday. Talon, I agree with you. There are many interested parties who would be interested in this tour -- I think Brian and Roger are somewhat low on the list. Agreed. They weren't *pushing* for this. This was more of a "Hey! Wouldn't this be fun?" Being totally honest, I am a bit concerned with the size of the venues. I hope I'm proven wrong and the collaboration is enough to generate sales. It can definitely generate press & interest. I hope it translates to tickets bought With new and exciting projects (hopefully that materialize) anything that can boost the name will be helpful. Also Hollywood Records (through Disney) in the US too, although they have been a pretty shitty company. Agreed. Mostly agree. Although Brian and Roger believe rightly or wrongly that they did conquer America in the 70s-early 80s. Brian's interviews always state that they grew up there and that there was a period when they were the biggest band in the world including America. BUT it's been awhile and as Brian did state, I think he wanted one more jaunt to the famous American arenas like MSG and the Forum. *** Again I wouldn't be shocked. Brian seems to put out a live album/DVD with each tour he does (except the first tour with Kerry the Adam one!  I mean QPR in 2005-06 saw Return of the Champions, 2008 saw Live in the Ukraine, and he's about to release a DVD from his Candlelight tour with Kerry Ellis. SO it wouldn't shock me at all. Some have even said maybe MSG might merit an HBO special..but I'm not sure about that. *** That much on presale? How much did Trespassing sell worldwide? I didn't think it broke 200,000 worldwide or 300,000 at most. And POS or not unfortunately again doesn't translate into sales. Some of my favorite music didn't sell at all. I do agree that if it isn't successful it is definitely another highly likely option to see him do more TV or Broadway. BUT I think he might want a music career, so he might seek out the possibility of doing a Queen album. Gosh! I hope Brian and Roger aren't too low on the list of parties interested in this tour, seeing as they have to go out there and play and stuff every night . . . Why try to quantify who wants it/benefits from it most? LOL Don't misinterpret the intention. B&R were low on the totem pole in terms of PUSHING for the tour. THey weren't looking for a tour. They had a lot of offers after iheart and they fielded them and thought why not. Rest assured if they committed to it and are excited about it as they obviously are they will have no problem turning it on. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:25:06 GMT -5
Most people have heard the word "rhetoric" but sometimes it's fun to stop and think about what it actually is. Rhetoric is just the art of constructing an argument, and rhetorical devices are just the different techniques used to make your argument stick. We usually think of rhetoric in terms of politics but really it is used all the time -- even right here on little old Adamtopia. Of course, not all arguments are created equal. When you have a weak argument, but you still want to defend it -- that is, you don't want to concede that you lost the argument -- there are certain rhetorical devices you can fall back on. One of these devices is called moving the goalposts. An example might be an argument about whether a given person would be a good frontman for the rock band Queen. You might start with the position that a given person -- say, Adam Lambert -- should be a brilliant interpreter of the music of Queen. Until he proves that, he is not a suitable frontman. So now suppose Adam Lambert performs with Queen many times and proves he is indeed a brilliant interpreter of the music. Then you might move the goalposts and say that just being a brilliant interpreter is not enough. Now, in order to be a suitable frontman for Queen, a given person has to be able to work as a creative collaborator with Brian and Roger, challenging them to do new work and acting as more or less an equal to them. I believe such an argument was advanced here several weeks ago. So now suppose such a possibility was advanced in an press conference, however casually. Suppose it was suggested that Adam Lambert might indeed work creatively with Queen at some point. This might seem awkward, but not if you move the goalposts. Now, you might argue, that would be all very well, but all it would really prove was that the collaborator was, well ... a bit of a loser. Someone who could stand toe-to-toe with Brian and Roger, perhaps, but until achieving a rip-roaring commercial hit on his own, lacking nonetheless. Rhetorical devices are really pretty interesting to think about. Sometimes they really make you wonder about arguments and the people who make them.  Why I love you best! |
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Post by LindaG23 on Mar 9, 2014 12:31:56 GMT -5
Talon, a very fair analysis and exactly what I meant yesterday about opportunity cost. The opportunity cost for Brian and Roger choosing the QAL tour is indeed very small, unless they are using a large portion of their retirement to fund it which I very seriously doubt as they seem too smart for that. So the only real downside I can see for them choosing this option over just continuing along with their other current projects is perhaps if the tour doesn't do well and the Queen brand is negatively impacted. Even that wouldn't impact a new album of lost Freddie tracks because those fans like you who are wanting this would still buy regardless of the tour success. The upside of the QAL tour for them is not only financial but also life affirming. As you said, financially they probably do not need the tour. Their life styles are pretty set at this stage of their life and they have probably funded that style securely. This is a luxury that allows them to pursue their passions (animal rescue, etc.), but they wouldn't be Queen if music were not their main passion. As we age, if we are lucky, we gain wisdom, judgement, and composure: all good qualities but there are times when the excitement and thrill of our youthful passions elude us and are sorely missed. This is what I think Adam has brought to Brian and Roger and it is wonderful. They are young enough to still be able to perform as they did and old enough to appreciate the glory of it. I was in London and the joy was palpable. So for them, the opportunity cost of choosing to tour again is minimal.
This is not true for Adam. He has chosen a tour with Queen and that choice involves taking two or three months out of his current timeline. What would he do in those two or three months instead: he would be working on A3 or maybe another episode of Glee (which since it is an acting part on TV is not placing his career as a recording artist on the line) or other things we do not know about. What would he gain from this: A3 would be out sooner and he would be firmly establishing himself as solely his own artist/songwriter/performer, succeed or fail, win or lose. I think this is the biggest opportunity cost for Adam, this perception that he cannot make it as a recording artist on his own. Adam has spent the last five years proving that Idol does not define him. But ultimately, that cost came with great reward so the opportunity cost was well worth it. The question now is, will touring with Queen reward him generously enough to overcome the possible perception that he cannot make it as a solo artist and any detriment that might have to his career. There is no question that he will benefit financially in the short term and what he does with that money is completely up to him. He will also likely expand his fanbase, but will it be people who will support his solo career, I don't know. The press involved with the tour will keep him in the public eye and undoubtedly be used to promote A3 which is a good thing. This has the potential for the most upside. A3 needs to be ready and if it is good, I think QAL will help it get a fair shake. As long as the tour is successful and I refuse to even consider that it won't be because the negative consequences for Adam would be so much greater than for Brian and Roger. One of the best pros for Adam is that he loves Queens music, the spectacular show, and I think has come to love the people. That kind of affirmation cannot be overly stressed. Still, the opportunity cost for choosing QAL is much greater for Adam.
Unlike Brian and Roger, decisions Adam makes now will create ripples in the future that are difficult to predict and those risks will have a more measurable impact because of his long future. This is simply a business analysis and has nothing to do with my heart. I will support any decision he makes and do the small things that I can to advance his success because I believe in his future. I will buy multiple albums, go to multiple shows, click on all links that mention his name, buy merch and product until my credit cards bleed green. Selfishly, I want him around for as long as I am around because I cannot get enough of listening and watching him.
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Post by LindaG23 on Mar 9, 2014 12:44:37 GMT -5
While writing my long ass post, I see that Q3 has said pretty much the same thing.
Also, I am currently trying to figure out if I now fall into juniemoon's, "Rhetorical devices are really pretty interesting to think about. Sometimes they really make you wonder about arguments and the people who make them." category and if I should go straight over to her house and apologize.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 12:47:24 GMT -5
At the same time, the cynical side of me feels that if Adam #3 tanks, than there will be a Queen album. If it doesn't tank, than it's less likely. This could happen. BUT... it goes against everything I believe Adam to be, and, although I know so little about Roger and Brian, it goes against that little I know about them. I really don't know how to explain it... Adam's album, Queen's album, is not something just sitting on a shelf, waiting to be released when convenient. Adam's way of creating music is laborious, emotionally and creatively demanding, so if there are songs he wants to record with Queen, he'll do it regardless of A3's commercial success, or to rephrase it, if he doesn't have the creative drive for an album with Queen, he won't do it even if A3 tanks, not even if he knows it would be a smart thing to do, commercially speaking. That's what I think, anyway. Also, what about Roger and Brian, why would they make an album with Adam, without putting their hearts and souls in it, just because Adam's album has tanked? I don't get it. I am going to feel very, very sorry for them and that possible album if they make it post eventual A3's flop, and people start saying that they did it because of it. I understand that Adam is also a businessman, but he is first and foremost an artist, and he has done nothing in his career to prove otherwise. Also, I think A3 will not tank and I think Trespassing was a huge success, not commercially, mind you, but in every other possible way that someone like Adam, and someone like me, might deem worthy, i.e. in all the really important ways. I wish I was clearer, I don't know what's wrong with me, I can't seem to organize my thoughts lately. |
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I mean QPR in 2005-06 saw Return of the Champions, 2008 saw Live in the Ukraine, and he's about to release a DVD from his Candlelight tour with Kerry Ellis. SO it wouldn't shock me at all. Some have even said maybe MSG might merit an HBO special..but I'm not sure about that.