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Post by Craazyforadam on Mar 9, 2014 13:35:21 GMT -5
Q3 Comment -- DO NOT POST THINGS LIKE THE HIGHLIGHTED SECTION. NO ONE POSTED THAT FYE AND TSP ARE FAILURES.
I am not deleting this post but I will delete any quotes of it. I am leaving to give everyone a warning not to mischaracterize posts and generalize like this.
Why are FYE and TSP being called failures? It makes it very difficult for Adam to live up to such expectations, coming out of his own core fanbase.
TSP was a number 1 album! How much higher would you want it to chart?
He got a Grammy nomination, he got multiple hits out of FYE and it was a number 3 on the charts in a very competitive week.
Hard to live up to such expectations, hard to write a new album with such expectations riding on it.
And yes, to everyone who said that Adam follows his artistic instincts and his own sense of direction, purpose and integrity.....and sometimes lets the chips fall where they may, and as far as I see his career, they have fallen pretty well for him by doing so, on multiple levels.
The one thing Adam does not have is the sales numbers in singles or albums that the commercially very big success stories have to show for. Is it really realistic to think that this will be or ever should be Adam's short term path? Let's give it some time, I see Adam very much prodding along to become exactly as iconic as everyone has been predicting for him. He will do it on his terms and his own way, and this stand-in for Queen is very much a piece of the overall puzzle, but also just that.
And while idol is brought up again, there are many albums out of the idol finalist ranks, that I would categorize as 'failures'. Neither of the two from Adam are such though, in fact, contrary to what is written here, Adam's albums are among the most successful albums created by their former 'offspring'.
Over the last 5 years, I have seen Adam work himself up - against the constant background noise from nay-sayers, which seems to accompany him wherever he goes or whatever he undertakes - I have seen him develop in the following way:
2009 '15 minutes of fame' 'cannot beat KA is single sales', and condescending media reports about guy-liner and gay, gay, gay...idol singer, whose career is over
to
'world-star', 'rock-star', front-man, successful artist, valued guest star on two TV shows, recognized celebrity, and valued activist on behalf of gay rights as well as other causes, and man who is valued and praised by key players in the music industry...
I am not really sure, how 'failure' would have led from a) to b). Well, it did not, because it was not a failure, it just was not the mainstream top40 path.
Adam had great 5 years and he has many great years ahead of him, assuming his own fan base is not convincing themselves that he does not. Imo, it is time that the fanbase gets used to the background noise of naysayers that Adam had to get used to all his life and develops a bit of immunity against it too.
They will not win, they have not won in the past and they are sitting on the loosing end of the game right now too, and so, in their desperation, they scream even louder. That does not make their message more credible, it makes it less so.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 13:35:49 GMT -5
Ah, he replied to a fan, fianlly!!! And it was about A3, splendid:)))
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 13:38:45 GMT -5
Thanks grandduchess and aleks. It is fun to have some other fans of rhetoric in the house. aleks, the rhetorical device you mention is known variously as half-truth, lie by omission, or suppressed evidence. When employing this device, everything you say is true. You simply fail to mention bothersome facts that do not support your views. This makes your beliefs appear to be well-grounded, and lead those who do not know all the omitted facts to believe in your conclusion. In reality, the omitted facts might make a huge difference. Their inclusion might expose your entire argument as false. Devices closely related to the half-truth are known as sly suggestions, fear mongering, and patronizing attitudes. For example, a line like "He might want a music career" would be a sly suggestion. After all, it's true, isn't it? Yet look how it might put someone on the defensive. Your opponents will probably go running off after the hare, making this a very effective way to distract from the weakness of the actual position being argued. Ah, you are simply the best:))) That is the most infuriating rhetorical device! I hate it, but I think only because I can't outspeak people who use it. I need lessons:) I can pay you in lavish compliments and gratitude:))) I will also accept payment in the Serbian equivalent of brownies. You can mail them in a can. My mom said that's how she used to send treats to her brothers when they were overseas during WWII.  P.S. Pecans are a bit like walnuts if you have those. They are not as big but somewhat similar in taste. |
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talon
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Post by talon on Mar 9, 2014 13:39:10 GMT -5
Maybe you are right. But it's not all about the way music is created. If A3 tanks, it might just make him think that he wants a different approach and really got a lot out of touring with Queen and maybe he could get as much out of working in the studio with them. B&R wouldn't do it just because A3 tanked. I think Adam would be more likely to do it. I think B&R would do it as they sometimes say because "That's what they do". They like playing and making music. If the situation developed where they could work with Adam I think they might explore it. Right but unfortunately in order to be an artist, sometimes you have to do the commercial thing or you won't be able to get your art out to people. Like for example there are many movie stars who will star in a hollywood popcorn blockbuster type because it allows them the freedom to go make the artistic independent pieces they truly desire to make. Then add another famous actor or director to said popcorn blockbuster and it makes it more palpable. Well I'm glad it was successful in that sense and I can't deny that. But commercial success is needed to sustain an artist. Again, I know I'm a bit cynical. And maybe he won't ever do that. One of my favorite other bands is Extreme - a funk metal group from Boston who had one big hit in their career (and 1-2 minor hits). They disbanded and they reunited and had an album about 4-5 years back. It sank without a trace. The guitarist went off and toured with Rhianna. The singer and bassist worked on solo projects. They just did another smallish tour and will do a new album. But it will never reach all the people it should. So it depends on the level of success you want/need. Speaking of finances, I've been meaning to ask how is this tour going to be financed? Is it all Brian&Roger, or is Adam also going to contribute? First I thought that it would be financed solely by Brian and Roger, but since that rumour that it was Adam who had invited them, I wondered if the dating rules applied, so the one who invited for dinner&movies gets to pay?  ) Not sure at this point. BUT to be honest, Queen often just broke even or even LOST money on some of their tours because they made it such a spectacle. BUT I doubt Adam is footing the bill. I'd bet it's Queen footing the bill especially as Jim Beach is the one who organized it. |
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Post by adamrocks on Mar 9, 2014 13:40:35 GMT -5
Something Else! @somethngelse 3h ‘Is this really #Queen without Freddie?’: #BrianMay defends tour with #AdamLambert dlvr.it/55zj0Z
MARCH 9, 2014 BY SOMETHING ELSE!
Brian May was careful, when talking about Adam Lambert’s initial North American tour with Queen, to say that the former Idol finalist is “never an imitator. He finds his own way with the songs.” This follows a consistent line of questioning about the endeavor, both in that Lambert rose to fame on a reality-singing show and that replacing Queen’s late legend Freddie Mercury is no small task. May and fellow surviving member Roger Taylor have, of course, been performing with Lambert off and on since 2009. They appeared on a U.S. stage for the first time last September, as part of an iHeart Radio event in Las Vegas. Previously, they had made several stops across Europe. Now comes a string of shows in the U.S. and Canada — beginning on June 19, 2014 and continuing across 19 total dates through July 20 in an outdoor concert at Washington, D.C.. Tickets go on sale via Live Nation on March 14, 2014. “It’s such a treat for me to be able to get on stage, and pay my respects,” Lambert says, “and to pay tribute to one of my favorite singers ever — and to sing some of the greatest music ever written.” As for Lambert’s roots on American Idol, May insists that all of that is “a long way in the past,” adding that the singer — who has since issued two solo albums — is “well-established” outside of that world. Mercury, meanwhile, has been gone for well over two decades. “People are going to say to us: ‘You know, is this really Queen without Freddie?,’” May mused. “Well, I have no idea. I don’t know what the answer to that question is, but people want to hear Queen music and they want to hear it done great, and they want to have Roger and I play — and we love to play. So, having this opportunity is great.” |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 13:42:53 GMT -5
Most people have heard the word "rhetoric" but sometimes it's fun to stop and think about what it actually is. Rhetoric is just the art of constructing an argument, and rhetorical devices are just the different techniques used to make your argument stick. We usually think of rhetoric in terms of politics but really it is used all the time -- even right here on little old Adamtopia. Of course, not all arguments are created equal. When you have a weak argument, but you still want to defend it -- that is, you don't want to concede that you lost the argument -- there are certain rhetorical devices you can fall back on. One of these devices is called moving the goalposts. An example might be an argument about whether a given person would be a good frontman for the rock band Queen. You might start with the position that a given person -- say, Adam Lambert -- should be a brilliant interpreter of the music of Queen. Until he proves that, he is not a suitable frontman. So now suppose Adam Lambert performs with Queen many times and proves he is indeed a brilliant interpreter of the music. Then you might move the goalposts and say that just being a brilliant interpreter is not enough. Now, in order to be a suitable frontman for Queen, a given person has to be able to work as a creative collaborator with Brian and Roger, challenging them to do new work and acting as more or less an equal to them. I believe such an argument was advanced here several weeks ago. So now suppose such a possibility was advanced in an press conference, however casually. Suppose it was suggested that Adam Lambert might indeed work creatively with Queen at some point. This might seem awkward, but not if you move the goalposts. Now, you might argue, that would be all very well, but all it would really prove was that the collaborator was, well ... a bit of a loser. Someone who could stand toe-to-toe with Brian and Roger, perhaps, but until achieving a rip-roaring commercial hit on his own, lacking nonetheless. Rhetorical devices are really pretty interesting to think about. Sometimes they really make you wonder about arguments and the people who make them. Junkie- I love this post! You said what I was thinking, only much nicer. |
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shimoli710
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Thank you Adam for this wonderful pic from M&G in Warsaw - one of the best TOHT concerts ever!
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Post by shimoli710 on Mar 9, 2014 13:43:27 GMT -5
FIRST SENTENCE OF QUOTE DELETED BY Q3.TSP was a number 1 album! How much higher would you want it to chart?
He got a Grammy nomination, he got multiple hits out of FYE and it was a number 3 on the charts in a very competitive week.Hard to live up to such expectations, hard to write a new album with such expectations riding on it. And yes, to everyone who said that Adam follows his artistic instincts and his own sense of direction, purpose and integrity.....and sometimes lets the chips fall where they may, and as far as I see his career, they have fallen pretty well for him by doing so, on multiple levels. The one thing Adam does not have is the sales numbers in singles or albums that the commercially very big success stories have to show for. Is it really realistic to think that this will be or ever should be Adam's short term path? Let's give it some time, I see Adam very much prodding along to become exactly as iconic as everyone has been predicting for him. He will do it on his terms and his own way, and this stand-in for Queen is very much a piece of the overall puzzle, but also just that.And while idol is brought up again, there are many albums out of the idol finalist ranks, that I would categorize as 'failures'. Neither of the two from Adam are such though, in fact, contrary to what is written here, Adam's albums are among the most successful albums created by their former 'offspring'. Over the last 5 years, I have seen Adam work himself up - against the constant background noise from nay-sayers, which seems to accompany him wherever he goes or whatever he undertakes - I have seen him develop in the following way: 2009 '15 minutes of fame' 'cannot beat KA is single sales', and condescending media reports about guy-liner and gay, gay, gay...idol singer, whose career is over to 'world-star', 'rock-star', front-man, successful artist, valued guest star on two TV shows, recognized celebrity, and valued activist on behalf of gay rights as well as other causes, and man who is valued and praised by key players in the music industry... I am not really sure, how 'failure' would have led from a) to b). Well, it did not, because it was not a failure, it just was not the mainstream top40 path.Adam had great 5 years and he has many great years ahead of him, assuming his own fan base is not convincing themselves that he does not. Imo, it is time that the fanbase gets used to the background noise of naysayers that Adam had to get used to all his life and develops a bit of immunity against it too. They will not win, they have not won in the past and they are sitting on the loosing end of the game right now too, and so, in their desperation, they scream even louder. That does not make their message more credible, it makes it less so.  (especially those bolted parts) |
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Post by Q3 on Mar 9, 2014 13:54:36 GMT -5
Gosh! I hope Brian and Roger aren't too low on the list of parties interested in this tour, seeing as they have to go out there and play and stuff every night . . . Why try to quantify who wants it/benefits from it most? I agree with you that I do not want to quantify who wants this tour most BUT the post talon and I were responding to was from yesterday and put forward that Brian and Roger wanted to do this and pushed Adam to do it. That makes no sense to me. Here is the post that started all of this.... Clearly, there are commercial forces who want this -- the promoters, venues, label, etc. That is essential for a tour. Clearly, Adam is thrilled to do this. He is a good actor but not that good. And it is great for him as a bridge to the release of A3. Clearly, B&R want to do this and they appear to love working with Adam -- you can see it on stage and even in the YT videos from Vegas. But I get no sense they were sitting in London thinking about how to go back and tour arenas one more time. And they are committed to this tour. But were they pushing Adam to do it? Most importantly, FANS what to see this concert. If anything motivates Brian and Roger to perform, it is putting on a really great show that fans love. ** Let's not spend a lot of time hashing this back and forth. I still am in the glow of the announcement and promo goodness.And my bet is that it will turn out to be just what it looks like -- an organic thing that just built over the past 5 years, that has a lot of commercial benefits for both Adam and Queen. On a related manner, the timing of this feels so right. |
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Post by adamrocks on Mar 9, 2014 13:55:22 GMT -5
Request Adam Lambert @requestadam 59m .@adamlambert gave some hints about his new music (out this year!) & the process while talking the Queen tour wp.me/p24mml-Tr |
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nonotme
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Post by nonotme on Mar 9, 2014 13:56:25 GMT -5
While writing my long ass post, I see that Q3 has said pretty much the same thing. Also, I am currently trying to figure out if I now fall into juniemoon's, "Rhetorical devices are really pretty interesting to think about. Sometimes they really make you wonder about arguments and the people who make them." category and if I should go straight over to her house and apologize. nah not with that post, ok you are both my favorites! Alex too! Now I have a question. Anyone willing to do a comparison of sound/feel of The Forum and the Joint? I am trying to decide if the Forum is worth driving an additional 1000 miles or so for that concert. The I15 on the 4th of July could be and prob will be murder and mayhem, so do I see Adam in Vegas and skip LA or is the experience of him at the Forum worth it. I lucked out and got a good ticket at the Joint for the first night and I want the floor the second to compare the difference. Never did GA. Do I need combat boots? , I know nothing about the Forum. However, I certainly understand wanting to avoid the drive from LA to LV and back. Octagon (formerly prism) and I are considering flying LA to LV. There are some budget carriers that fly that route. The Joint describes the Queen + AL shows as "seated." If you look at their seated concert floor plan there is only a small area marked GA, and it is in the back, not up by the stage. Check out the floor plan before you decide whether this GA is what you want. Also, since there apparently is no pre-sale for the Las Vegas shows, and it seems we'll have to get tickets in the general sale, I don't know how easy it will be to be picky about location. Tickets could go pretty fast since the venue is smallish. peace&love |
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