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Post by cassie on Aug 1, 2011 1:12:31 GMT -5
Late night ramblings. I put in a lot of time drafting this response to the Daily thread for July 31, so I decided to put it here for safe keeping. Talking about range: Cassie, I don't hear the B2 either and his C3# is thin enough that I don't think he presently has the ability to go much lower than that..at least not on a day where he is also belting in the upper ranges. Perhaps, when he warms up well and lays off the high notes for a few days, he technically may have it in him, but generally, I don't think going lower than even Eb3 is all that effective for him. He loves singing in that key, presumably because it is a warm sounding one, so I don't think we will get a lot of lower notes. And why anyways? Just to prove a point for somebody wanting to claim the 3 octave range? Also, I think that his Bb5 was not really all that great either in that video. Isn't it normally necessary to hold the tone for it to count? Though in this case I think Adam probably would have it in him if he wanted it. But to be honest for me there are other things that fascinate me much more than that range topic: i.e. in OOL when he sings "They say we'll rot in hell, but I don't think we will": for the third time, he is belting this out and setting it apart from the rest of the song, which is sung very lyrical, crystal clear almost operatic in style. The fact that Adam can switch back and forth like that within a live performance, just amazing. Also, his vocal impressive / expressive /atmospheric style - not sure what to call it: Example: The whole song allows for many different arrangements and interpretations, and 'knowing' Adam we will get to hear them over time. In this version though, the melody is sung in such a way that a pleasant but also overpowering sweetness is covering the whole song which stands in poignant contrast to the lyrics, almost like a perfume that is a bit too overpowering. Maybe - The experience of existing laws and restriction/discrimination expressed as a lonely voice of concern or anguish in a sea of overpowering consensus that believes everything is already oh-so-ok with gay rights? Just one way to interpret it, but he creates a mood that is so meaningful and he does that most often with his style of singing, in this case rich and melodic as compared to for example the falsetto sounding thinner voice during TOMT or Loaded Smile. That just fascinates me so much more than range, he just has so many more tools in his toolkit than most other singers and that just makes it so exiting. Really wonder how this song will sound on the album, probably totally different, but also interesting. Note: I found this great resource for pitches on the internet. Go to www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/appendix/pitch/pitch.html The yellow key is C4, or middle C. Click on it to hear how it sounds. I will reference this page to talk about Adam's range. I think people talk about range being the end all be all determination of a great singer because it is objective and measurable. Perhaps the equivalent of talking about an excellent car by discussing how fast it can go from 0=60 or something. I agree with you that there are so many other characteristics or qualities of a great singer. First of all, let's talk about USABLE range. Where one can sustain a note with consistency and clarity, and sing it repeatedly on different songs on different nights. For Adam, he hit that C#3 (the fifth black key below the yellow key) several times every night in Aftermath. I agree, that is just about his lowest usable note. Maybe a C3. (the white key just to the left of the C#3 you just found.) But that is less consistent. I can hear a "break" in his voice at about a G3. (3 white keys below the yellow one) Below that, he is very chesty and less powerful. A few notes below that he can still get a rich, caramel tone, like the bottom Eb3s (the fourth black key below the yellow one) in OoL. On the top, he consistently pitched the songs on tour to hit an F#5. (the eighth black key above the yellow one) On one offs, he can belt up to the A5 (the twelfth white key above the yellow one) with ringing clarity. The Bb5, (the black key to the right of the A5) a half step above he has only touched very briefly and very occasionally. So, I would say usable range is C#3 to A5. Damned impressive, but not quite 3 octaves. ( Just for fun, check out your range. Start with the yellow key and sing that pitch. Then walk down each white key to the left, singing each. What is the lowest you can comfortably and clearly sing? Then, go back to the yellow key, and walk up each white key, until you can't go any further. How high can you sing? Can you match Adam's range?) More important than range, tho, as you pointed out, is tone or timbre. You are right, that Adam can shade his voice with so many "colors" and textures. Rough and raspy, light and airy, light and crystal, powerful and clear, with a rich vibrato, with a straight tone. That is an important quality of a great singer. A great singer also exhibits great control of his instrument. He performs consistently, from show to show, song to song, and phrase to phrase. I am thinking of Durbin, here. He has range. Sometimes he has good tone. Sometimes he has vibrato. Sometimes he is on pitch. But, it is unreliable. Unpredictable. I cannot listen with comfort, because I don't know when he will lose control and sing something that sounds like fingernails on chalkboard. A singer can have great technique but not be able to move us emotionally. To be great, they need to sing emotionally, in a way that touches us. In this, Adam excels. He is able to interpret a song in a variety of ways by changing his delivery. You make very good points about how he chose to sing so delicately in OoL, when the lyrics are harsh and hurtful. But these qualities are not measurable. They are not logical. They are things we experience and feel. So, they are often set aside for nit picking discussions about absolute range. Thanks for pointing that out. I agree with your entire post. |
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Aug 2, 2011 21:48:46 GMT -5
You know, one of the things I love most about watching Adam, is witnessing the obvious joy he emits when singing. It struck me recently how disappointingly rare it is to see singers exhibit that sort of happiness while performing. After a reaaaaaaaaally long day today, someone forwarded me this vid. The girl in it is probably now rather elderly, but she's the first person I've seen who glows like Adam when singing. Her name didn't strike any recognition in me, but I guessing she was likely quite well known (in Europe?) at one time. |
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Post by gelly14 on Aug 3, 2011 7:08:02 GMT -5
You know, one of the things I love most about watching Adam, is witnessing the obvious joy he emits when singing. It struck me recently how disappointingly rare it is to see singers exhibit that sort of happiness while performing. After a reaaaaaaaaally long day today, someone forwarded me this vid. The girl in it is probably now rather elderly, but she's the first person I've seen who glows like Adam when singing. Her name didn't strike any recognition in me, but I guessing she was likely quite well known (in Europe?) at one time. Gigliola Cinquetti was VERY well known in Europe. Your choice is excellent !! :D From her wiki page At the age of 16 she won the Sanremo Music Festival in 1964 singing "Non ho l'età" ("I'm Not Old Enough"), with music composed by Nicola Salerno and lyrics by Mario Panzeri. Her victory enabled her to represent Italy in the Eurovision Song Contest 1964 with the same song, and she went on to claim her country's first ever victory in the event. This became an international success, even entering UK Singles Chart,[1] traditionally unusual for Italian material. It sold over three million copies, and was awarded a platinum disc in August 1964.[2] In 1966, she recorded "Dio, come ti amo" ("God, How I Love You"), which became another worldwide hit.[ This the song she won both contests and she was only 16!!! When I was young , I must have listened to this song a million times!  |
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Post by wal on Aug 29, 2011 22:45:36 GMT -5
Sorry, not sure if this belongs here, but wanted to post it for "safe keeping".
Uploaded by lizaglify on Jul 31, 2011
Adam Lambert VS Freddie Mercury, two of my favourite brilliant tenor singers!
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Post by cassie on Aug 29, 2011 23:17:15 GMT -5
Sorry, not sure if this belongs here, but wanted to post it for "safe keeping". Uploaded by lizaglify on Jul 31, 2011Adam Lambert VS Freddie Mercury, two of my favourite brilliant tenor singers! Absolutely belongs here. To be honest, I cannot hear the first couple of low notes they quote from Adam. Others swear they hear it, so I will defer to them. But, the lowest I have heard is from the bastard album, and it is a Bb2. Very short, just brushed. The lowest sustained with any power is C3. The notes used to demonstrate the top of the range.... Adam's are much stronger, clearer, better supported than Freddie's. Sorry, Freddie fans. Also, Adam has at least another five notes above where this video stops. F#5, G5, G#5, A5 and Bb5. Don't know about Freddie. I think his voice is basically lower than Adam's at the bottom and at the top. Like Adam said in this interview where they asked him what was the highest note he can sing, "How did it sound? Did it sound cool?" When people compare Adam to other singers, they often focus on the range, rather than the sound quality, the power, the finesse, the flexibility, the control, etc. I'll take someone who has a mastery of their voice and only a two octave range over someone who can squawk, blat, strain, squeak and whistle up to 4 octaves. |
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Post by cassie on Sept 9, 2011 17:57:47 GMT -5
I posted this on the daily thread, but wanted to make sure to archive it here as well. This is a link to Juneau and Xena's radio program with guest Angelina Kalahari, talking about Adam's progression from child performer to adult artist. You can listen to the entire 2 hour program, and/or read Angelina's articulate, interesting script with accompanying audio and YT clips. Here's a sample from the script, talking about the development of Adam's talent: "I also often hear such statements with regards to Adam, too – that he was born with that talent. Of course he was, but without hard work, we wouldn’t now have him in the world as the artist he is today, and it seems to me as though people who make such statements, want to believe that there is something somehow mystical in singing or magical in performing – and of course there is magic, too, otherwise we won’t be so invested in it, but it seems to me they don’t want to know about the years of hard slog, mistakes, tears and self-flagellation it takes to achieve the kind of artistry that Adam displays today. And I find it kind of insulting to him, and dismissive of the hours and years of hard work he’s had to put in to be the amazing artist he is today." soundbath.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/adam-lambert-from-boy-performer-to-adult-artist-a-radio-programme-with-juneau-xena-2/ |
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Post by cassie on Sept 15, 2011 21:33:20 GMT -5
I brought this review over from the Daily forum so it will not get lost in subsequent days. I just finished listening to Angelina's new program on Outlaws of Love. She has done an exceptional job. This is a two-hour long, in-depth examination of the song and performance. Angelina starts by briefly talking about being at the concert and hearing it live. Then, she does an analysis in detail of how he sings the song and infuses it with emotion. She points out specific techniques and turns that most people don't consciously notice (if not highly trained as singers), but which add so much to the interpretation. Her first guest is Elizabeth.... sorry, don't remember the last name. She is an academically trained, expert musician who talks about how the song is structured musically. To be honest, I am not sure how accessible her information is if you don't have a music theory background. I would be interested in hearing what others think. But, for me, it was fascinating!!! The song works, musically in so many ways. The type of harmonies and scales it incorporates, the arrangement of the guitar accompaniment which is almost like a duet, the harkening back to the musical troubadours of Europe, the way the melody moves down when you think it would move up, .... oh, well, you just have to listen for yourself. That simple little song works so well because it is very well structured, musically. Do I think that Adam intentionally and consciously said, "Let's keep this in the minor pentatonic scale" or "Let's start each subsequent section of the song up a minor third from the previous"? No, of course not. He crafted the song to reflect his experience and his emotions, and found what "sounded right". Still, I believe it sounded right to him because of it's fit, musically. Because of all the things Elizabeth discerns in it. Next, juniemoon reads her blog. Kudos, junie! A beautiful piece of writing. So glad that you participated. I love your image of it being a "cathedral" song. After that, Angelina and I chat about my initial reaction to the song, her initial reaction to the song, and why we think it had such an impact on us and others. We talk about how Adam has grown as a singer and an artist, and touch on one of our favorite "hot" topics: that Adam's voice IS his instrument. One honed over years of hard work and practice. Finally, Phillipa, who has a PhD in English and who did such a great job talking about the lyrics to Broken Open and Aftermath, reads the lyrics and discusses how and why they are, at once, very short and simple, and at the same time, profound and effective because of the simplicity. She talks about how Adam uses rhyme and chooses the lyrics based not only on meaning, but on the sound of the words together. Angelina and Phillipa talk about the way Adam delivers the bitter lyrics tenderly and with grace, "refusing to meet hatred with hatred." Here again, I am not saying that Adam intentionally and consciously says, "Let's repeatedly use this vowel sound in subsequent words on this phrase" or "If I choose the word 'rot' instead of 'burn' it will imply the hopelessness of redemption." I imagine his process is much more organic and spontaneous. He likes the way something sounds or feels. But, again, it is effective because it hits the mark in terms of structure and poetry. This is not a program that you click on and have in the background while you do the dishes or fix dinner. It is dense with information and analysis. But, that simple little song is very complex vocally, musically and lyrically. and, IMO, deserves examination at this level. It was a treat to listen and reflect on all the facets that can be experienced in the song. Isn't that what makes something a "work of art?" So, if you want to dive into the deep end for a bit, carve out two hours of your time to ponder OOL with Angelina and her guests. soundbath.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/adam-lambert%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Coutlaws-of-love%E2%80%9D/ |
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Post by Craazyforadam on Sept 17, 2011 16:41:59 GMT -5
This post is with regards to the OOL in depth discussion. Scroll is your friend, if you have either not yet had a chance to listen to Angelina Kalahari's Soundbath session on OOL or if you are not interested in that topic.... I listened to the whole broadcast and I loved it. Cassie, I loved what you said about working out a song until it really lives in your body and resides there within you. So true. Regarding the topic of how much work it actually takes to reach the level Adam is at. The old saying " when preparation meets opportunity, magic happens" comes to mind. Non-musicians probably cannot even begin to imagine how much work goes into getting to that level of competitiveness or professionalism. In some ways this obviously is always true for activities that we do not engage in personally. We tend to underestimate what we don't understand. And you also brought up with Angelina again your frustration about people who say that singers are not true musicians if they do not play an instrument.... To be honest I tend to see it as..... 'some folks just don't WANT to understand because of an unrelated agenda' (i.e. homophobic, KA lover, just troll and trouble-maker, whatever)....but there comes a point where you just cannot cure stupid. There is one example that I have used once or twice to shoot something back. It's like saying that running is not a sport as compared to i.e. bicycle riding or football, because if you don't use an instrument like a football or a bicycle, then it is not a sport. Humans naturally run, so running does not make you an athlete. : Please don't get upset about it, Adam is stepping with wide steps past such nonsense. It won't hold him up and it should not hold us up either, really, imo. Then you so interestingly talked about how the lyrics and I won’t give away here what you said, let others listen to it themselves, but I found it quite interesting. I personally had to work on discovering the lyrics because the beautiful singing was just so strong and uplifting for me that the lyrics did not come through for me initially, especially over all the screaming on the early videos that were coming in from Ste. Agathe. While the voice still soared above it all, I only caught some of the lyrics at first. I'll get back to that in a second. But first let me say, my favorite phrase was that Adam intentionally creates his light around him and that there is a grace he creates through his delivery and his angelic vocals. How immensely true. I thought that everybody on the panel brought a lot to the table in this discussion and that each was different, and of course some observations were shared. I think the literature professor Dr Philippa Semper, whom I by the way looooved on her interpretation of Aftermath and BO, struggled here a bit with OOL. The lyrics are soooooo dark, and that of course was said in detail, there is no hope and any question of hope is actually crushed with every 'no' that is expressed. If you read just the lyrics and do not know the song, you hear endless misery described and only that. And the lyrics interpretation of all this darkness was probably a struggle. She did her homework with all the rhyming and assonance discussion, and that was all fine...but then....where was the response on what all that means? I think she was not quite as comfortable taking it any further and it leads me to one major point that I think is really important about OOL. It was certainly touched upon by you or others, but I feel or see a few more angles. Let me explain. There is throughout the song a very clear juxtaposition of the dark lyrics and the angelic singing. The darker one gets, the lighter is the other. The melancholic melody is kind of navigating and negotiating between the two throughout the song. For an non-confessional person like Adam, who certainly does not want to wave the flag of any religion around, Adam sure has written a song here with quite a bit of transcendence and personal belief in it. You can say that the “hell” topic is forced on him by the outside world and that he is not initiating that discussion, true, but taking us to church with his singing, is what he personally is making of it. Lyrically he lets it stand in its negative atmosphere. But he does give us his opinion and verdict even there. But then Adam has the ability to use both lyrics and music in his arsenal and with both of these he describes the conflict as well as his personal reflections on the matter further. As the lyrics converge towards the line: ‘They say we'll rot in hell, but I don't think we will’ and therewith reach their darkest point, the melody climbs to its highest level. That’s just one example. The lyrics are done, there is no hope on that level. But music can overcome the boundaries and Adam uses music to do just that. He uses the most angelic side of his voice to bring that level of transcendental hope and healing to the song. The vocals not only contradict the lyrics, they overcome the lyrics. In Angelina Kalahari’s discussion, the musical and vocal interpretation talked about the angelic voice, the cathedral style song, the soaring vocals. Adam completely uses the angelic part of his vocal timbre throughout the song, except for the the one line one time where he deviates into the rock scream to strengthen his resolve of overcoming the nonsense that holds people back. Most songs ever written try to bring lyrics and melody together and form some kind of interpretive unity. In this song they are contrasted against each other. Earthen misery against either future redemption or at least redemption through the arts, you can interpret that either way. Thanks to Adam's incredible skill these vocals leave such a strong impression on us that it actually becomes quite hard to hear the darkness of the lyrics. Our souls are taken to that angelic place, so we have very little interest to climb back down into the drudgery of this lyrical content. We just perceive the healing power of the song and everything else almost does not matter. And therein lies the hope of the song that the lyrics refuse to give us. Music can heal, music can transport and let our souls soar and of course Adam could not imagine his life without the experience of having for himself as well as others the healing power that lies with music. For him music and singing will always be that magical part of him that allows him to flee from the pain of life. Adam is not religious, but he sure is spiritual and if he does not shy away from discussing topics like hell in his songs and is creating chants like this one, he is skirting awfully close to religious song and I think he knows that. He is going there anyway, and we might as well dare to meet him there. Its a touchy subject because our beliefs are probably as varied as can be and nobody has any more insight than the next person, even though some seem to think they know it all. The point is, Adam gives us his belief on that hell topic loud and clear and then he leaves the rest of that whole debate at that. If he promised to give us insight into his soul, he sure has done that with OOL and used his artistic arsenal to show that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2011 16:32:35 GMT -5
With all the conflicts the last few days in the daily thread I've been visiting Adams performances on youtube and reading the comments.
It seems 'Mad World' is getting a lot of traffic because it must have been linked to the 'Gears of War' video game. Despite the trolls there have been some people discovering Adam for the first time and are blown away. ;D
There is this one guy 'thespiswolf' who claims to be a 'Musical Theatre Professional' who thinks Adams was flat and voice cracked at .55 and .58 and he should have sung within his range!
I wondered if our Musical experts could hear what he is hearing?
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Post by cassie on Oct 10, 2011 17:30:17 GMT -5
With all the conflicts the last few days in the daily thread I've been visiting Adams performances on youtube and reading the comments. It seems 'Mad World' is getting a lot of traffic because it must have been linked to the 'Gears of War' video game. Despite the trolls there have been some people discovering Adam for the first time and are blown away. ;D There is this one guy 'thespiswolf' who claims to be a 'Musical Theatre Professional' who thinks Adams was flat and voice cracked at .55 and .58 and he should have sung within his range! I wondered if our Musical experts could hear what he is hearing? What???? Really? Okay, I listened with the sound turned way up. I can hear just the slightest, tiniest pitch bobble at .54 on the word SPAces. Maybe. At .58 I hear just a touch of grit at the beginning of "WORN out". Being familiar with Adam's interpretive, emotive skills, and familiar with how he sings that song, he roughens it up and attacks it a slight bit harder to emphasize the word WORN. I've heard him do the same thing in the same place in more than one version of MW. It's intentional. Not a break or near break. No way. That isn't where his voice naturally breaks anyway. If you were gonna hear it, it would be about 5-6 notes lower (around G3), or 3-4 notes higher (around G4). That is where his register shift is naturally. Below those lower notes he has a much chestier sound and he has less power and resonance. Above those higher notes is where the head voice kicks in strongly, altho Adam has the rare ability to continue to blend in chest with head voice well on up the scale from there. As far as singing it within his range, that's pure BS. Much of that song sits in Adam's strongest "sweet spot" which is where the voice is the most pure and ringing. (OOL sits in a similar range.) Adam pitched that key perfectly, IMO. On the line " Went to school and I was very NERVous", the high note he sweeps up to is the precise place that his head voice kicks in (G4). He intentionally flips from the chest resonance to the light head resonance for that word, to evoke nerves. Like his voice is cracking. (But it is not.) Brilliant. Later, at "look right THRUUU ME" he hits the same note (G4) and then goes a note higher, but this time he chooses to power it by adding the chest resonance with the head. A very different sound. And, again, totally intentional. The use of different kinds of resonance to interpret the emotions of a song is something that Adam does exceptionally well. Getting too complicated? Then, bottom line, I disagree with the guy. If I was gonna get obsessively picky about pitch, I could point to several places in the song where Adam does not hit the precisely perfect pitch (as in hitting an A4 at 442 cycles per second instead of 440 type "precise"), but it is within the acceptable range of variance to be considered "in tune." To get more exact, I think a singer would need to use autotune. No, thank you. The only real bobble of pitch is on the very last note, which he overshoots and sings a bit high before self-correcting. He recognized that in an interview where they played the end of MW. He cringed a little upon hearing it, then laughed, because, in his nerves, he said he went for the harmony line on the last phrase instead of the melody. If you compare different MW performances, he never sang that phrase with those notes ever again. Not because he was afraid of the note.... he has sung it many times in many songs. It's a cinch for him. But because it was not the melody line he meant to sing. A brain fart. But, some people delight in finding fault in extraordinary singers, performers, dancers, athletes, writers, etc. I guess it makes them feel superior. : : |
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