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Post by cassie on Feb 15, 2011 23:55:55 GMT -5
Welcome to the new home of Vocal Masterclass! This is the place to discuss all things related to Adam’s voice and interpretation. Also the place to discuss vocal production and technique in general or to ask questions. I started this thread at Q3's encouraging, because I am a music geek with classical training in music theory, piano, violin and voice, and Adam just blows me away with his VOICE. Whether he is rocking it out, touching our hearts with a ballad, singing musical theater, or singing something approaching opera, his technique is awesome in its depth and range. I get so excited listening that I just want to jump up and down and say, “Do you hear that??? Do you know what he just did? Do you know how incredibly difficult and masterful that is? Do you know how rare it is that he can do that?” So, the Vocal Masterclass is the place where I can squeee to my heart’s content, and hopefully find others who hear what I hear. It is also the place where we can share some insight with others about vocal technique and musicality. (I’m not the only Adamtopian with musical acumen. We have a number of artists in residence who make wonderful contributions.) But, you don’t need to be a trained musician to join in the discussion. You don’t need to know a thing about head voice, chest voice, register shifts, or breathing from your diaphragm. You just need to be enamored by the voice and want to talk about it and learn more. So, please share your opinions, your experience, your questions and your sqeeeeage. The more the merrier. Q3 has graciously agreed to bring over the major discussions we had on the old thread for history’s sake, so we will not lose the archive. But, at 45 pages in length, I don’t imagine many will be plowing through the entire thing looking to see if someone has posted a comment previously or asked the question they have. We can start again, as there are many new members, and no one who comes here will mind repeating what an incredible talent Adam is. I look forward to continuing the discussions and sharing we started at the old homestead. To start us off, Glamnana asked about Adam's audible breathing in Soaked. Here is the question and my response, from the daily thread. I love to watch him breathe, too. From a vocalist's viewpoint, of course.  I think there are several reasons we hear it in Soaked. First, it is a song with minimal instrumentals. Aftermath has only a guitar, but Monte plays the hell out of it, filling the song with sound. WWFM has several instruments backing. In Soaked,his voice is featured to the max intentionally. This is actually Adam's showpiece in the show, in my opinion. His statement that he can rock, he can provocatively kiss a guy, he can dance, he can entertain, but, ultimately, he is a SINGER, and that is what he is most proud of, and most confident about. It's his voice at its most exposed. Secondly, yes, he has said that it is technically the hardest to sing. It contains long sustained phrases that require him to take those massive breaths. He really powers the notes, especially in the bridge (middle part --- and you've had enough, searching for love.) Thirdly, it is stylistic. I think it adds to the angst and vulnerability of the song, just like a gesture or a look. Lastly, this is just my guess, but I suspect that he does it to show us "Yup, folks, I am really singing this --- LIVE. Not lipsyching, not enhanced. All this tone, all this power, all this phrasing is coming from ME." I recall reading Pink saying something about making her breaths audible at times to prove it is all her. As I have said before, Adam sometimes sounds so good, so polished, so right on that if I didn't know better, I would say the live vocals were not. He never runs out of breath and clips a phrase or interrupts it for a breath unnaturally. He always finishes the musical and lyrical phrase. He rarely sings off pitch. He is also a master at sneaking breaths to prepare for a power note or a sustain, and we don't even notice it. Frankly, I think Soaked is Adam showing off, vocally. And I love it! |
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Post by stardust on Feb 16, 2011 1:11:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Cassie. I always enjoy the Vocal Masterclass thread but don't always have time to read it.
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Post by lifeisnow2 on Feb 16, 2011 15:23:30 GMT -5
Cassie,
so glad you are back. Love this place. I too love Adams "show piece"...Soaked. In the concert I loved to hear the fans during the pause. They showed their appreciation for his vocal talent and stage presence. It was interesting how the song evolved over the concert performances. With the "word of mouth...word of twitter...and word of blogs" we all knew to be very quiet during the singing, then let loose during the pause. Loved it, and I hope it comes through on the DVD.
This is completely a question about his singing that was "far away and long ago" In the musical "Hair" he sang "My conviction" I have never seen "Hair"...wish I had. But is the whole song with his falsetto? Could you comment about it. It is wild.
Thanks for being our expert.
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Post by cassie on Feb 16, 2011 20:22:22 GMT -5
Cassie, so glad you are back. Love this place. I too love Adams "show piece"...Soaked. In the concert I loved to hear the fans during the pause. They showed their appreciation for his vocal talent and stage presence. It was interesting how the song evolved over the concert performances. With the "word of mouth...word of twitter...and word of blogs" we all knew to be very quiet during the singing, then let loose during the pause. Loved it, and I hope it comes through on the DVD. This is completely a question about his singing that was "far away and long ago" In the musical "Hair" he sang "My conviction" I have never seen "Hair"...wish I had. But is the whole song with his falsetto? Could you comment about it. It is wild. Thanks for being our expert. Thanks for the great question. My Conviction is an incredible example of Adam's technique and control. Now, want to have your mind completely blown? In my opinion, NONE of it is in falsetto, with the possible exception of the note towards the end where he sings "that is the way things ARE" and the ARE is very light. I say it is probably falsetto just because of the difference in tone in that one note. But everything else is his wonderful head voice. Falsetto does not have that much power or ring to it. And the final high G? Dayummm. A mezzo-soprano would be happy to hit it that well, with the total lack of strain, and with such wonderful, harmonic resonances bouncing around. This song is when I became convinced that Adam could, should he ever choose to, sing very credible opera. |
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supardu
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Post by supardu on Feb 16, 2011 20:46:51 GMT -5
Cassie, I will certainly be plowing through your 45 page archive. I've been waiting for Adam downtime to read to read and savor your thread. In the meantime, I've greatly enjoyed reading your posts in the daily news threads, and I've saved many of them on my computer.
What is the typical range for a mezzo soprano, a soprano, and for a coloratura soprano?
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supardu
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Post by supardu on Feb 16, 2011 20:55:23 GMT -5
Where is the archive? The old Adamtopia site was still up when I last checked, but it seems to be closed, now. Thanks..... ETA: It seems the old forum has never been brought over here. But, if anyone is interested in those from over a year ago when we were first hearing GNT, you can view here: adamtopia.proforums.org/viewtopic.php?p=1874 |
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Post by nica575 on Feb 16, 2011 21:17:10 GMT -5
It is so wonderful we have this thread up! and the 45 pages of our "history" is very important!
I hope that Adam#2 will bring tons of material to talk about and enjoy.. now we just have to get there...
thank you, cassie for running this and Q3 for bringing the old thread over.
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Post by cassie on Feb 16, 2011 21:17:46 GMT -5
Cassie, I will certainly be plowing through your 45 page archive. I've been waiting for Adam downtime to read to read and savor your thread. In the meantime, I've greatly enjoyed reading your posts in the daily news threads, and I've saved many of them on my computer. What is the typical range for a mezzo soprano, a soprano, and for a coloratura soprano? Thanks for such great compliments! Soprano can be used as a generic term just meaning the higher female voice. But, as you have broken them down, the soprano is generally thought to have a usable range of about C4 (middle C) to the C two octaves above - C6. They may be able to sing a couple notes above or below that, but most music lies in that range. The mezzo-soprano has a slightly lower range, say A3 (the A below middle C) to A5, two octaves higher. The tone is often slightly richer or darker than the soprano. The contralto is a couple of notes lower than the mezzo, about F3-F5. Again, the tone is heavier and darker. The coloratura soprano is generally stylistically lighter than the soprano and specializes in ornamentation and runs. The range is about C4-F6 or so. Of course the terminology is just a way of categorizing voices, and each individual voice may have a slightly different range or sound. Bringing it back to Adam, he easily sings in the range of a contralto, but adds another four notes to the bottom. He can even be said to sing the mezzo range with the added bottom notes. But, then, he is referred to as a tenor, range C3 (octave below middle C) to C5 (octave above middle C). That he definitely hits. |
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Post by cassie on Feb 16, 2011 21:19:31 GMT -5
I think that Q3 will be working on the archive of the old thread. It may take a while to bring it all over, so, in the mean time, ask away, or make your comments.
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NoAngel
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Post by NoAngel on Feb 16, 2011 21:45:44 GMT -5
I think this is my first foray into the vocal masterclass thread! Cassie, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. When you write about Adam's voice, it sends a thrill right through me, even though I know next to nothing about music/voice technique. Okay, so I have 2 questions (and forgive me because I'll bet you've answered them before): 1) The song PUU is a fav of mine, and I'm one of those who mourn never hearing it live. Is it even possible to sing it live, as is? I remember Adam speaking of some studio trickery on that song. The whole part from about 2:20 to 2:48 sounds on the album like it was done without taking a breath, which I'm guessing is impossible. I'm not even sure 2:38 to 2:48 is possible in real life, at least in the context of what comes before and after. So, how much would he have to change in order to sing it live, and would he have to go on extended vocal rest immediately afterwards, LOL? 2) On the Acoustic EP, there is one thing that is a bit jarring for me on Soaked. At 2:22 (on the word "love") and at 2:30 (on the word "touch") he does something that I guess I think of as breaking up the note. So instead of a long, unbroken "loooooooooooove" it sounds like "looooo huh huh ooove." It's not how he does it on the album, nor in other GNTs, which makes me wonder if it is related to vocal fatigue, or is it a conscious voice-sparing trick. I hope I make some sense :-/  |
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supardu
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Post by supardu on Feb 16, 2011 21:59:12 GMT -5
Cassie, I will certainly be plowing through your 45 page archive. I've been waiting for Adam downtime to read to read and savor your thread. In the meantime, I've greatly enjoyed reading your posts in the daily news threads, and I've saved many of them on my computer. What is the typical range for a mezzo soprano, a soprano, and for a coloratura soprano? Thanks for such great compliments! Soprano can be used as a generic term just meaning the higher female voice. But, as you have broken them down, the soprano is generally thought to have a usable range of about C4 (middle C) to the C two octaves above - C6. They may be able to sing a couple notes above or below that, but most music lies in that range. The mezzo-soprano has a slightly lower range, say A3 (the A below middle C) to A5, two octaves higher. The tone is often slightly richer or darker than the soprano. The contralto is a couple of notes lower than the mezzo, about F3-F5. Again, the tone is heavier and darker. The coloratura soprano is generally stylistically lighter than the soprano and specializes in ornamentation and runs. The range is about C4-F6 or so. Of course the terminology is just a way of categorizing voices, and each individual voice may have a slightly different range or sound. Bringing it back to Adam, he easily sings in the range of a contralto, but adds another four notes to the bottom. He can even be said to sing the mezzo range with the added bottom notes. But, then, he is referred to as a tenor, range C3 (octave below middle C) to C5 (octave above middle C). That he definitely hits. Right. I didn't understand the C3 notation, but it's confusing to me. I'm drawing a diagram, but will work it out tomorrow. A long time ago, I saved the DDD chart comparing the ranges of their top 10 best technical rock artists, so will resurrect that and slot in the soprano ranges. A demain... |
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seashell
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Post by seashell on Feb 17, 2011 0:05:33 GMT -5
Hey Cassie.. I saw your response on the news thread.. thought I would post the actual content from Rolling Stone.. here is what they said... Yeah.. BS I know.. LOL
- Bieber's voice began to change on his last tour. He's now working with a vocal coach, which involves doing 20 push-ups before a session to warm up his chest. "He's got a nice tone to his voice now," says his vocal coach Jan Smith. "It's a good texture, but it doesn't sound like what his fans think he sounds like. He'll get four octaves eventually. He's still young."
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Post by cassie on Feb 17, 2011 0:36:41 GMT -5
I think this is my first foray into the vocal masterclass thread! Cassie, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. When you write about Adam's voice, it sends a thrill right through me, even though I know next to nothing about music/voice technique. So pleased you checked us out! I love your writing and am happy to share my passion for vocal technique with you as you have shared your insight about Adam with us . That is great studio trickery. Adam has wonderful breath control, which we can clearly hear in Come to Me, Bend to Me. But, that phrase is probably beyond even him. Probably. I know nothing about record producing but this is how I would I would create the illusion of one breath. I would do multiple takes with Adam breathing at different places. For example: Tiny minded, two time suckers (breath) Same old faces make me shudder(breath). That is the phrasing you would likely hear live, as it follows the musical line. The next take, I would ask Adam to sing: Tiny minded (breath) two tone suckers same old faces (breath) make me shudder countless times (breath). That would connect the musical phrases together. Then, you splice the two takes together so that no breath is heard. Live, I think Adam could sneak breaths in without it damaging the flow of the song. As long as he kept the final elongated phrase. "I need someone to be my lover" is a natural musical phrase and most singers would breathe there before going into the chorus. I think Adam would choose to sing "I need some one (ninja breath) to be my lover all my life." The joining of the last phrase of the bridge and the first phrase of the chorus is brilliant. Adam does the same joining in CTMBTM when he sings, "Come to me, bend to me, (breath) kiss me (breath - before he needs it to complete the phrase, but intentionally to prepare for the elongated phrases upcoming) Good dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (there should be a breath here, but NOOOO) give me your lips (breath - finally). It sounds soooo good, and it is also the ultimate in showing off for a tenor. Like, who can do that!!! Adam Lambert. Oh, but I get off track. PUU is not particularly challenging in vocal range or intensity, so by adding breaths he could easily add that to the show and sing it nightly. Don't know why he chose not to. I hear what you are referring to in the Soaked acoustic. It is actually the opposite of being tired or sparing his voice. It is a stylistic choice to hit each note of the run precisely rather than slurring them together. It is a tough trick to do. If a singer wants to hit each note distinctly and separately, he/she would normally add the "H" sound to each note, stopping the vocal stream for a nano second between each note. In that nano-second, he/she adjusts her vocal chords to the next pitch. He doesn't do that. The vocal stream is not interrupted. It just moves directly to the next note of the run. That is more challenging. How to explain it? Hmmm. Each pitch is a target. The easiest way to hit all the pitches in the run is to use a ray gun, pull the trigger on the first target and then sweep it past each subsequent pitch, making an arc. That is the vocal swoop or slur. If you want to hit each pitch distinctly the next easiest way is to aim pull the trigger, aim pull the trigger, aim pull the trigger. Tou huh huch. But he doesn't do that either. What he does is aim, close his eyes, pull the trigger, pull the trigger, pull the trigger. And just trust that he will hit the target pitch each time. It's subtle, it gives the phrase a little more exactitude and emphasis, but still keeps it silky smooth. Impressive technique. Like I said, Adam showing off. Does that make you like it any better? Oh, and no one has asked those questions before! Angelina, the opera singer did comment on how he sang "touch" --- and she loved the expertise it showed. |
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aloha
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Post by aloha on Feb 17, 2011 4:10:41 GMT -5
This must be the night to venture into the masterclass thread for the first time.
Cassie, my two favorites on the acoustic CD are Soaked and Aftermath. Stylistically they sound completely different, and yet-- aren't they both difficult to sing? I mean-- don't they use two completely different techniques to achieve their sound? In some ways Aftermath sounds more complex to me.
I feel clumsy trying to ask the question-- don't know if you will understand what I'm trying to say.
ETA: these are the two songs I am currently "hooked" on. I listen to them repeatedly.. for different reasons. Both pull my strings and pluck certain emotional pleasure chords... but again, different ones for each song.
Gah!
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Post by gelly14 on Feb 17, 2011 6:26:20 GMT -5
This must be the night to venture into the masterclass thread for the first time. Cassie, my two favorites on the acoustic CD are Soaked and Aftermath. Stylistically they sound completely different, and yet-- aren't they both difficult to sing? I mean-- don't they use two completely different techniques to achieve their sound? In some ways Aftermath sounds more complex to me. I feel clumsy trying to ask the question-- don't know if you will understand what I'm trying to say. ETA: these are the two songs I am currently "hooked" on. I listen to them repeatedly.. for different reasons. Both pull my strings and pluck certain emotional pleasure chords... but again, different ones for each song. Gah! i got my acoustic cd two days ago (its Greece here : ) and these two songs are my favs too. After listening to my sound system numerous times i decided to take a cd with me at the car. I will never do this again. When he does the pause at Soaked and starts again I CLOSED MY EYES!!!And i was in the fucking car DRIVING!!! So cassie i would also like to listen your thoughts about these two from the acoustic cd and i would also like to say that in Aftermath the way he sings the word "shadow" is killing me!!! And another question. Listening to the acoustic cd, i absolutely fell in love again with the lower register of his voice especially in Mad World. cassie am i making any sense about mad world??? Ohh and aloha i too believe that no one else than Adam can sing Aftermath. Of course cassie is here to explain why but these up and down notes in the same song and the way he delivers them ,are remarkable IMO. |
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