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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2012 17:56:08 GMT -5
Cassie,
At 2.00min on 'every' I can hear an air hiss with little power. Could this be Adam using falsetto?
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Post by cassie on Jan 13, 2012 21:12:09 GMT -5
Cassie, At 2.00min on 'every' I can hear an air hiss with little power. Could this be Adam using falsetto? Hmmm. You might be right. I do hear that, and I hear it at 2:15 and 2:20 when he goes for notes that are above his natural break between chest and head voice (and once again near the end). Just a guess here, but I think it sounds like his "morning" voice. When you first get up in the morning, your head/sinuses tend to be sorta clogged up with goop from lying down for so long, and your vocal cords are coated as well. After several hours walking around and talking things clear and drain, and further vocal warm ups help the process. If this was an "early morning" for Adam (even if it was 2 pm), he probably was not feeling the resonance in his head voice. So, when he shifts into it for the light rather than power notes, it lacks the ring. Or, he may have opted for the falsetto instead. Good catch.
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Post by rihannsu on Jan 19, 2012 17:11:39 GMT -5
Cassie I made this post earlier this morning about the difference between the two performances and would love to hear your take on this.
"Difference in delivery. On Leno he attacked the song, singing with attitude and intensity. On Ellen he started off in a more introspective and caressing manner and built the intensity throughout. I found the Leno version more declarative and this one more plaintive and pleading. Different but both valid interpretations IMHO.
To me the song embodies both the declaration of commitment and the pleading with the other not to give up or leave. The Leno version emphasized the declaration whereas the Ellen version emphasized the pleading."
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Post by cassie on Jan 21, 2012 0:24:25 GMT -5
Cassie I made this post earlier this morning about the difference between the two performances and would love to hear your take on this. "Difference in delivery. On Leno he attacked the song, singing with attitude and intensity. On Ellen he started off in a more introspective and caressing manner and built the intensity throughout. I found the Leno version more declarative and this one more plaintive and pleading. Different but both valid interpretations IMHO. To me the song embodies both the declaration of commitment and the pleading with the other not to give up or leave. The Leno version emphasized the declaration whereas the Ellen version emphasized the pleading." I definitely agree with you that he ATTACKED the song on Leno. Very sharp in tone and articulation (ergo the spitting of the consonants). Declarative? Assertive? At the beginning, when he is singing about how cold he can be, the delivery is cold as well. The Ellen version did start a lot more gently and tenderly. Not condemning his coldness, but admitting it. For me, this version is more of a love song and the Leno one was more of a desperation song. If I was imagining the situation, it was like Leno's version was after a big blow up between lovers. His partner complains about not being appreciated and says, "If you are so fucking unhappy, why don't you just leave?" Adam's reaction, meant to reassure and declare his love is still tinged with the adrenalin from the fight. "Okay, so I don't always dote on you. Okay, sometimes I'M BUSY. Maybe that seems cold. Okay? Yeah. I get that! But, I never said I wanted to leave! If I wanted to leave, you stupid FCK, I wouldn't been long gone! I'm here to stay! Get that? I LOVE YOU!" Ellen's version was a little like hours or a day after the fight is over and they have made up. The anger is gone, the panic is gone. He is now reflecting on what his partner said and not taking it as an attack. A bit contrite, he approaches his lover calmly and admits he can be obnoxious. As the song progresses he declares his love.... "I don't want to be anywhere with anyone but you." Two different interpretations, and, like you said, both valid. I, personally, like the warmer version on Ellen more than the brittle version on Leno. But, the ending chorus on Leno cannot be topped. It soars and shouts from rooftops. IMO. YMMV.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jan 21, 2012 0:56:34 GMT -5
Cassie... I am in awe of yours and rihannsu's analyses in both live performance of BTIKM. Thank you and agree with you both 100%.
Today I learned something from Professor Adam's tweets: Bridge and middle 8 are the same thing. Haven't heard of the term middle 8 before. Can you expand more on this? Is the term based on the key (#8) or something else?
Thank you so much.
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Post by cassie on Jan 21, 2012 2:01:11 GMT -5
Cassie... I am in awe of yours and rihannsu's analyses in both live performance of BTIKM. Thank you and agree with you both 100%. Today I learned something from Professor Adam's tweets: Bridge and middle 8 are the same thing. Haven't heard of the term middle 8 before. Can you expand more on this? Is the term based on the key (#8) or something else? Thank you so much. Thank you for the compliment. I was only speculating or interpreting the different interpretations. That is the fun thing about good art. It makes you think and make connections with your own experiences. As for middle 8, here's the music history/theory lesson. A very common song structure is the 32 bar song. ???? The rhythm of a song is separated into bars or measures. ????? Okay, let me try again. When you are dancing a waltz, you feel the rhythm as ONE, two, three, ONE, two, three. Each group of 3 is a bar. Most pop music has 4 beats per bar - ONE two three four, ONE, two three four. GOT MY boots on, got the RIGHT 'mount of leather and I'm DOING me up with the BLACK color liner NOT the first time, its NOT the worst crime, your SOUL will be oh KAY. Can you feel the stronger beat or pulse on the ONE, two, three, four? A common, simple song structure was to have 8 bars (groups of beats) as a basic musical line (referred to as the A section), then that 8 bars repeated again with perhaps just a slight variation of melody (a second A section). Then you would have 8 bars (groups of beats) with a different melody (the B section), and then, finally you would repeat basically the same melody as the first 8 bars of the song (back to the A section). Total? 32 bars. The "middle 8" refers to the third group of 8 bars that has a different melody line. This structure is referred to as AABA. First 8 bars (A section): DECK the halls with BALLS of holly FA LA la la laaa la LA la laaa second 8 bars (A section) TIS the season TO be jolly FA LA la la laa la LA la laaa third 8 bars (B section) DON we now our GAY apparel FA LA la, fa la la LA la laaa fourth 8 bars (A section) TROLL the ancient YULE time treasure FA LA la la laaaa la LA la laaa Most modern music does not follow that very simple formula any more. It is more often verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge (new melody unrelated to the previous verse or chorus), chorus, chorus. BTIKM follows this pattern. But the label "middle 8" has stuck. Because the underlying structure is still the same. You have [verse, chorus - A section], [verse, chorus- A section], bridge (B section), [chorus, chorus- variation of A section]. Still AABA. Just in a more complex way. Um, clear as mud???
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jan 21, 2012 9:03:22 GMT -5
cassie.... what is scary is that I actually understood what you are saying ;D Thank you for explaining the derivative of middle 8. I also got a kick of actually understood what Adam was talking about falsetto.... again due to your constant teaching/educating us in this forum about the difference between falsetto and head voice/chest voice (which are all foreign to me until you started talking about it). When Randy Jackson used to throw that word "falsetto" about Adam after his performance (BOW/IICHY?) I really thought that was so impressive ;D. Meanwhile Adam was probably squirming and was holding his tongue to tell Randy those are not falsetto Thank you so much. P.S. Sometime if you can explain how you can tell a chest vs head voice and can you give a sample of Adam's performance where he used one over the other or does he mix it up? No hurry ... only when you get the time. Thanks again.
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belle
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Post by belle on Jan 21, 2012 12:30:35 GMT -5
Phew, a little quieter day for daily news. So I had time to check out this thread, too - and it seems to be just what I had wished for: a discussion of performance and all it's ingredients. These are the things I strongly relate to - the prerequisite being there has to be a good voice to begin with. I am not so thrilled about radio-pop in general and I find it mostly sterile with some tricks in the band/background sounds. On the contrary, I get a kick of live performances because they are real and the interpretations get to my emotions much more directly and strongly which I find enjoyable. I was drawn to the fandom only after I found the acoustic promo presentations and the Glam Nation Tour's powerful, more rock and more showy versions of the same songs even though I loved his voice already, but had heard just the radio hits. I was also excited to read that Cassie had the same background stories in mind that I had when I tried to blurt out my feelings about Leno and Ellen performances. Actually my post, when reading it again, is lacking the explanation of the situations behind the interpretations I had in mind and is a bit cut short on Ellen performance. Great performances both on Leno and on Ellen! I liked a lot the aggressive attack to the song on Leno, the narrower voice which sounded sharp to paint the cold and bitter in the beginning, the growing groove and deliberate interpretation to underline determination of his statement, the tender a cappella part all alone to show the feeling and the cathartic elevation in last part of the song to express the joy of having got the message out emphatically ending in vocal improvisation with the heavenly and strong voice. On the other hand his rendering on Ellen was a bit more gentle and sounded much better, the arch was rising all along the song but never got overboard. The Leno act was more desperate and maybe a bit overdramatic compared to the one on Ellen which conveyed sensitive, more narrative-like and more serene expression which actually in my opinion is more suited to the contents of the lyrics. However, I cannot forget the contrast between strong delivery and tender moment in the middle in Leno performance but I must admit that the Ellen version was more stylish and whole. Huge thanks to all that made this possible by posting links and uploading parts fo the show! I am very grateful that I get to listen (and watch) both performances and ecperience first hand the phenomenon that I have read about, namely that Adam is a superb performer, follows his instincts and the feel from the audience delivering us a new version of the song every time. That really is a quality seldom met. I wrote only that I cannot forget the drama on Leno. Well, the drama of the song is ever-present in every performance, that's basically built in the song, but in Leno I was very touched with the feeling of uncertainty what comes to the result of this outburst for the relationship. It was a stringent necessity to get the message out, it was difficult but he got it out, was ecclectic about that - that was all he could do, still hesitant of the repercussions but hoping for the best, trying to trust that his lover really knows him, understands him, and it is all for the best. As for Ellen perfomance, it was more like story-telling of something that had happened, when he had the guts to confess his faults and emphasize his unwavering love nonetheless. And in singing, he already knows that the result was what he hoped for, the understanding, because his partner really knows him to the bone and believes what was said after he got it out. It didn't sound as urgent, only more calm, not panicky in the least, beautiful though. The calmness after the fight situation resulted in vocals that sounded more resonating and more colourful in tones. I trust you understand what I am aiming at even through the language barrier and I am glad there is a place to share these feelings because not many of my friends want to hear or to try to understand any of this. Although I am going to convert one or two most responsive ones! PS I do enjoy singing myself, too, and when I get my voice working it feels so good. I do have an ok resonating voice, but unfortunately, my skills are limited and most of the time I have to try to get the good feelings out of listening to better singers - and sometimes sing along all by myself.
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Post by rihannsu on Jan 21, 2012 13:38:36 GMT -5
belle if you haven't discovered it already you must check out Angelina Kalahari's Soundbath page. soundbath.wordpress.com/Use the archive links to the right and start back at the first posts. Enjoy!
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belle
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Post by belle on Jan 21, 2012 13:55:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip, rihannsu! I found soundbath very interesting, I already have the link saved for further delving in. It is the reason I am going to introduce Adam to a male friend who is into opera, only. Bringing Placido Domingo (my favourite of the three tenors, others being Pavarotti and Carreras), and of course Björling, into the discussion on Adam from a professional viewpoint might make a difference to him although he has been willing to listen to my ramblings anyway if they concern singing... Worth a try even if he won't become a fan of Adam's - I get to discuss the matter with someone and that is a gain for me.
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