|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 6, 2012 11:40:32 GMT -5
Cassie, I am really ignorant about music, notes, etc. For years now I've been fascinated by all you say about how Adam sings, and this thread is probably my most treasured at Atop. But I never had truly got a lot of what you were saying--until your posts on the previous page. Thank you SO much for finally making me hear what you've been saying all along. I hear it now! Yay! So, first gear is chest. Second is mixed chest and head. Third is head. Right? So my question is about falsetto. Is that the same as head? And if not how is it produced differently(now that I can feel this all in my body now)? Also, re phrasing: are you saying it is where he pauses/breathes--this is really obvious the impact in WWTLF. Or is it also accenting words? Chestnuts roasting on an open fire-- chest-nuts feels like it is accented differently than we would say that word and also differently within the sentence. Don't know if that makes sense... Anyway, THANK YOU and the other musicians here for the gift of begining to understand the greatness of AFL! I am so pleased that my explanation made sense to you. Adam continues to amaze me with his vocal ability and artistry. Falsetto confuses me, too. I think it is because women don't usually have or use a falsetto tone, so I can't understand it from personal experience. From what I have read and researched, it seems that the "experts" often cannot explain what it is, or agree with one another. The most common explanation I have heard is that in falsetto, the singer does not completely bring the vocal cords together in contact. They are slightly separated with a lot of air rushing thru. Only the edges of the vocal cords vibrate to produce the sound. The result is a high, often slightly breathy, light, almost wimpy? sound.The singer cannot get power behind the sound because of the airy, breathy way it is produced. Using head voice, or mixed/blended voice, the singer has much more control of the breath and the tone, and can lighten it up or power it out much stronger. Think of the final note Adam sings in IICHY. "Need" starts very light, but as he continues to hold it it grows stronger and more ringing. That's the head resonance. This YT may help explain it a bit? Or not. As for phrasing, yes, how a singer emphasizes words is part of phrasing, too. He may hold or stretch one word/note and then rush the next couple to "catch up" with the rhythm/tempo. He may delay starting a phrase and then "catch up." It is very much like phrasing in the spoken word. Often, when people read a prepared speech or passage, they sound stilted, artificial, or without feeling. This is because they don't use normal phrasing, normal pauses, normal emphasis on certain words. Great actors have ways of reading a line that sounds completely natural, yet conveys all kinds of meaning by the way they phrase the passage, emphasize certain words, frame certain words with pauses, etc. |
|
|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 6, 2012 11:45:07 GMT -5
Wow, this is all very interesting. I have a question now, and it may be kind of... silly? I don't know. lol But it's just one of those stupid questions that won't leave me alone, so I'll just ask and hope you guys don't laugh.  Does the laryngeal prominence (or Adam's apple) have anything to do with the type of voice you have? [img src=" ![]() i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/Quu3/Adam%20Smilys/Other%20Smileys/dunno1.gif"] [/IMG] I've always heard that bigger prominences lead to lower voices, but I have no idea if that's a myth or if there's some truth to that. [/quote] Not at all silly. The natural pitch of someone's voice is largely determined by the length and thickness of the vocal cords. So, it would seem logical that a larger prominence would contain larger vocal cords. But, probably not always. |
|
shimayo
Member
Posts: 102
Location:
|
Post by shimayo on Dec 6, 2012 12:14:05 GMT -5
WOW! Great explanation, Cassie. Thank yo so much! It's so good to trying to learn and actually understand a little bit. The bonus is that I got to know more about others culture, for example, The christmas song is a discovery to me, all I knew so far are "Oh Holy night", "Jingle bell" and "White christmas". [img src=" ![]() i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/Quu3/Adam%20Smilys/Other%20Smileys/icon_redface.gif"][/IMG] Our cable used to air an American program called "Masterclass" in wich a young guy teach you about jazz music. He was so enthusiastic, he explained with patience, with simple vocabulary , with audio and video as supports. He made his audience embrace jazz with less apprehension and later like it. You remind me exactly of this guy. By the way, WWTLF is my favorite part from London Queenbert day3 too, ex-aequo with IWTBF. You will laugh at my reaction when he sang in one breath "Who wants to live forever, ohhhhh, when love must die.": I was confortably sitting on my chair watching him deliver this long phrase, and it was me who was out of breath... ps: I pm-d you.  ps2: now re-watching WWTLF with 'new eyes', clicks repeat button every five minutes. |
|
Albiku
Member
@Albiku
Posts: 3,021
Location:
|
Post by Albiku on Dec 6, 2012 14:52:42 GMT -5
Thanks for answering, Cassie!!! :Clap: :Clap: :Clap: About the different ways a singer can perform a song by emphasizing the words in different ways, Angelina's blog has a few examples. Here she talks about the different ways Freddie and Adam approached the songs Adam sang on the EMAs: soundbath.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/adam-lamberts-three-gems/And I loved her "Outlaws of Love" vocal analysis, so I'm copying it here from her site (I don't know why I can't copy the link in here, it doesn't work... :dunno: ). This is what Angelina had to say about the performance at Ste. Agathe: I just love the way she explains what he's doing. :wub: :wub: :wub: |
|
|
|
Post by butterknife on Dec 7, 2012 11:24:46 GMT -5
 FANTASTIC answer!! Cassie. Thank you so much. I know he is insanely good. But your answer to my question just leaves me in awe of Adam's crazy techniques. I think I have one more question (sorry keep asking questions :-/ ) ... I heard some 'expert' commented that Adam's weak spot in his crazy range is somewhere in the middle register (don't know which note but it is said in the song WWFM that is obvious and maybe the first phrase of first verse in BTIKM as well). I don't know what do they mean by 'weak'. Thanks again. Cassie. Keep asking questions. They bring up interesting topics for discussion. And other readers, please feel free to chime in with answers as well. I am not the only "expert" on singing that we have. I am not sure what they mean by "weak" either. I suspect from what you have written, that they are referring to Adam's passaggio, or the natural "break" in his voice between chest, mixed and head voice. Oddly, many vocalists consider Adam's ability to shift between chest, mixed and head voice seamlessly as a strength, not a weakness. So, what is passaggio? What do we mean by a break in the singing voice? It is like a car that has to shift gears. You start in first gear, but as you pick up speed you get to the point where the engine is revving at maximum and cannot push the car any faster. You then have to switch to second gear. Then third, then fourth. If you do not switch gears at the right point, if you rev your engine too long in low gear, trying to force the car to go faster, you can burn out the engine. Humans have a "low" gear for their voices. It is the voice you use normally when talking calmly. It is also the voice untrained singers use most often. As the singer goes up the scale, he or she (can I just say "he" cuz we are talking about Adam?) will reach a point where he cannot comfortably sing any higher without using a lot of breath to force the note to come out. (It is a similar muscle movement to forcing feces out when you are constipated. Sorry for the yucky analogy.) In order to keep singing up the scale, the vocalist must shift gears. They do so by changing where the sound resonates in their body. First gear the resonance is in your chest. Second gear moves the resonance into your head and sinuses --- smaller resonance spaces for higher notes. It still uses the chest resonance as well. You may see this referred to as mixed or blended voice. As the singer continues up the scale, there reaches a point where he must shift gears again, this time purely or mainly moving the resonance to the head only. (head voice) The sound of head voice is lighter, and generally more ringing than the chest voice. The note or area of the scale where the singer shifts gears is called the passaggio or "break." The goal is to be able to sing the scale from bottom to top without any notable change in the sound of the tone --- without a discernible "break." It would be a bit like shifting a car without revving the engine or stalling it out in the next gear. The sound of the engine is fairly consistent. An untrained singer may be able to shift gears, but the difference in tone is very easy to hear. Like shifting a car from first to third gear with bumpiness and a very different sound to the engine. If he messes up the shift, you hear the "break" as his voice cracking. Or, an untrained singer may not be able to get his voice into the second or third gear at all, and just revs the low gear higher and higher til his voice sounds raw and like a scream. Whew! Are you still with me? Adam's natural "break" between mixed voice and head voice is around a G4/G#4/A4 depending on how warmed up his voice is, what the weather and humidity are, how tired his voice is, etc. In this video, starting at 1:06 on the chorus, Adam shifts to second gear, a light mixed voice. Then, at 1:24 on the word "know", which is the A4, he shifts into pure head voice. Coming down the scale at the end of "myself," the last note switches back to mixed voice on the G4. Then, to chest voice for the verse. Can you hear the difference in the tone? I think that the people commenting on his "weak" area are talking about that shift at A4. When Adam is singing lightly, you can often hear the difference in tone. He is not trying to hide it. In the next version, he sings the high part of the chorus the same as the first version, but at 3:24 he does NOT shift into third gear, but stays in second gear all the way up to the high D5. Can you hear the difference in the power and fullness of the mixed voice? Adam is able to take that mixed voice insanely high when he chooses and is warmed up. Perhaps some people consider this passaggio at G4/A4 as a "weakness" because sometimes you can hear a definite difference in tone. I don't, as I have heard him shift gears without any noticeable difference in tone, and extend his mixed voice thru this range at will. When I hear a noticeable difference in tone it is most often a stylistic choice or a choice to protect a voice that is not warmed up sufficiently. Hey, Cassie, Finally I got time to sit down and listen and digest your music teaching material.  I am not so sure about the 'weak spot' comment either. I guess it might have something to do with his natural break like you said. But I remember he used WWFM as an example. "He only sang WWFM in original key only a few times when the song first came out and didn't manage to pull it off quite nicely as he does in CD version. The problem is that the song is written in a weird key. It is not a song that a mediocre singer can handle. He has to use his 'weak spot' to sing certain parts of the song. On the chorus when he has to shift to higher notes his voice sounds sharp in live performance. On MAMA, he gave the best original key WWFM live performance ever, the verse parts are basiclly on par with CD version. But there was one improvising riff part at the end sounded a bit disjointed and not quite flow with the music." -------------------------------------------- I def follow your teaching material. The explaining part of passaggio is a killer. I totally get it. I myself though ain't a pro singer but I sang for a band for some time when I was younger so I get what you mean by 'shifting gears' in singing. Not at all that many singers are able to do this seamlessly like Adam is. --------------------------------------------- As for the natural 'break' between voices, what is the point where Adam has to shift from pure chest voice to the mixed voice? Another question is when Adam power up his voice all the way to, say A5, is it still mixed voice? Thanks. ---------------------------------------------- In the two BTIKM examples, I noticed in the first one, Adam's voice is overall lighter. He shifts to his light head voice very fast when singing the word "that". Sometimes it sounds very light and the difference in tone is very obvious, sometimes it is very smooth and more powerful. The second performance sounds to me more powerful and fuller in his voice. I don't know if it is the mic mix problem or my ears' problem. Maybe the second one he has to sing it louder due to a bigger venue and facing a crowds. Yea, I hear the difference in his tone when he shifts gears. But I still get confused by his light head voice and falsetto. ??? Thanks & cheers. |
|
|
|
Post by butterknife on Dec 7, 2012 13:22:52 GMT -5
------------------------------- STL ------------------------------- ------------------------------- Under Pressure ------------------------------- ------------------------------- Bohemian Rhapsody ------------------------------- -------------------------------- Another One Bites the Dust -------------------------------- -------------------------------- It's interesting to hear different versions of a song sung with great voices Kiev STL is not the best STL of Adam's. But it has the best audio. |
|
|
|
Post by evergreen on Dec 7, 2012 23:52:52 GMT -5
Butterknife
Thank you for putting these performances together. Some great performers here, but imo none any better than Adam. This AOBTD really shows his voice, dancing ability and spirit so well - no wonder Brian and Roger (and the audience) were so happy!
|
|
|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 8, 2012 11:58:44 GMT -5
Hey, Cassie, -------------------------------------------- I def follow your teaching material. The explaining part of passaggio is a killer. I totally get it. I myself though ain't a pro singer but I sang for a band for some time when I was younger so I get what you mean by 'shifting gears' in singing. Not at all that many singers are able to do this seamlessly like Adam is. --------------------------------------------- As for the natural 'break' between voices, what is the point where Adam has to shift from pure chest voice to the mixed voice? Another question is when Adam power up his voice all the way to, say A5, is it still mixed voice? Thanks. I hear the shift from chest to mixed at about middle C or the D one note above. When he adds the head voice to the mix I hear more ring in the resonance. As for the A5, he absolutely should NOT be able to sing that in mixed voice, but it certainly sounds like it is, and other voice experts have said it is mixed or full-voice as well. Damn! ---------------------------------------------- I certainly hear what you are saying. If you recall, Adam was doing a crazy promo tour where he was starting at dark-thirty in the morning to appear on morning drive time radio, and continuing appearances thru to the evening. I have commented on the differences in performances before. It makes me giggle. I don't know ANY singer who likes to sing early in the morning. Your body is just not prepared for it. Wile you sleep, crud accumulates in your head and sinus because you are horizontal. Mucus can also coat your cords. Have you ever telephoned someone and been able to tell immediately that you woke them up, just by the sound of their voice? Have you noticed that your voice sounds a little lower and gravelly when you first wake up? When I watched the YTs of these gigs, I could pretty much tell you if it was early morning, mid day or late afternoon by how Adam sang the songs. EARLY morning he sang it in a lower key, and sang the entire song with a light voice. A bit later in the day, the lower key, but sang the last chorus in his mixed voice with power. Later still, in a higher key, but light head voice. In the late afternoon/evening, higher key and mixed, power voice. The man knows his voice very well, and knows not to push or strain it before he is sufficiently warmed up. Good thing that all the versions sound wonderful in their own way. Join the crowd. It is difficult to tell the difference when he keeps his head voice very light. I have to basically go with what Adam has said. He very rarely uses falsetto. So, when uncertain, I figure it is head voice. Thanks for the compliments. Please keep them coming. |
|
|
|
Post by butterknife on Dec 9, 2012 17:43:56 GMT -5
I went back to Adam's old Mad World performance
listened to all versions TV & mini concerts except for the idol tour versions
The most striking part for me for the latest rendition last night is when he sang "I went to school I was nervous..." that "I".. oh, my god.. never heard he sang like that in MW.. so strong, powerful, full and rich yet just right..
Sounds to me in this version he used his head voice so much less than he did before in old renditions. All previous versions sound lighter n' less rich than this one.. Is it because his voice has gotten more mature so his vocal range is wider now? I remember you said his natural "break" between his mix voice and head voice is around G4 - A4 depending on how warmed up his voice is.
--------------
so contradicting in voice and interpretation
|
|
|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 9, 2012 20:45:51 GMT -5
I went back to Adam's old Mad World performance listened to all versions TV & mini concerts except for the idol tour versions The most striking part for me for the latest rendition last night is when he sang " I went to school I was nervous..." that "I".. oh, my god.. never heard he sang like that in MW.. so strong, powerful, full and rich yet just right.. Sounds to me in this version he used his head voice so much less than he did before in old renditions. All previous versions sound lighter n' less rich than this one.. Is it because his voice has gotten more mature so his vocal range is wider now? I remember you said his natural "break" between his mix voice and head voice is around G4 - A4 depending on how warmed up his voice is. -------------- so contradicting in voice and interpretation Interesting playing them back to back. I don't know that Adam's range is wider now than three years ago. Perhaps if anything, he has a couple more notes at the bottom of his range. I do think that his lower register has strengthened and become richer and more resonant. But, he doesn't really use it in this song. I agree that this recent version has more "weight" in the voice; more presence. I think it is due to Adam developing even more resonance in his mixed voice... perhaps due to the strengthening of his chest voice in the low register? I noticed during Queenbert that Adam can really BOOM out notes which can be unexpected. Since he has a naturally light sound to his voice, one does not expect him to be able to sing with such power and fullness. Having said that, I have to acknowledge a couple of other differences between performances that contribute to the sound we hear. First, there is the time of day of the performance. The one three years ago is EARLY morning. As I noted in an earlier post, Adam tends to sing more lightly in the AM when his voice has not had time to become fully warmed up. Secondly, the morning performance was outside, not in a theater, and the acoustics are very different. You get no reverb from the outdoors. Finally, the microphone settings are different. The recent performance has more reverb programmed into the mic, or what Adam has referred to as being "wet." So, yes, I think Adam's voice has matured and become richer over the years. I think he also has developed even better control over it. But, I acknowledge that there are many factors that go into the sound we hear. |
|
