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Post by cassie on Apr 28, 2011 20:33:20 GMT -5
cassieI absolutely love Jessie J. I wasnt so interested in an artist before and after Adam for a long long time. Her voice, her performance blow me away. Sexy but not cheap, with real passion. I would really love it if you could listen to her performance on SNL "mama knows best" and tell me what you think. She wrote that song. Its the second song from the top. idolator.com/5794242/jessie-j-mamma-knows-best-price-tag-snlAnd also this performance she did on a train station in NY She wrote this song also Thanks for the links. Hmmm, what do I think? She sings with great passion and lots of grit. Unfortunately, her diction is not always clear, and I have to strain to understand the lyrics at times. It is a shame, as her songs seem to be heartfelt. Good pitch. Strange range. She likes to sing notes in the bottom half of the fifth octave (the octave one above the middle C octave) and writes much of the melody there. It's higher than most female pop singers. Sort of at the top of their range, where they are really belting or flipping into a light head voice. Musicgirl, I think what you may be hearing as a "sharp" tone is her placement of the sound in her mouth and head. Don't know how to explain it with words very well, but she emphasizes the higher frequencies in the harmonics of her sound. Doesn't use a more rounded, fuller resonance in her body. It's like the difference in the sound of a piccolo vs a flute, a violin vs a viola, or a little apartment sized piano vs a concert grand playing the same notes/pitches. Because of the smaller body of the piccolo, the violin, and the little piano, there is less room for the lower frequencies in the subharmonics to bounce around and resonate. The higher subharmonics that oscillate (vibrate) at a higher speed then predominate. Let me try again with the ocean waves analogy. Lower frequency harmonics are like the big, rolling waves. When they move into a small, confined space they don't fit, and the wave breaks up, fractures, and loses its power. The higher frequency harmonics are like little, choppy waves or ripples. When they move into the confined space there is still room enough for them to ripple up and down, and retain their shape, tho, being little, they don't have any powerful surge. That is what I hear in Jessie's voice. Whether you like it, whether it sounds good to you is partially taste, and partially how the harmonics resonate in your own body. Personally, I like voices that have a fuller, more even balance between the higher and lower subharmonics. They sound "round" to me, where the higher harmonics on their own sound spikey or sharp. They don't "feel" as pleasant to me, or obviously to you. I also don't like singers who place the sound so that the lower frequencies dominate, and the higher frequencies get lost or do not form. Those voices sound dark, and a bit swallowed to me. don't know if that helped at all. I tried. :-/ :-/
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Post by cassie on Apr 28, 2011 21:12:45 GMT -5
Just thought of a better wave analogy. Big waves (low frequencies) take two things to form: Force/energy and space. If you have a high wind, but a shallow, small pond you get chop and froth, but no big waves. No room to form. If you have an ocean but no wind, you get a flat sea, no waves. No energy to form them.
So, to create low frequency subharmonics in your voice you need to open up the resonators in your body to the max, and focus the sound there. Then you have to have the breath/muscle control to sustain a note with power and support. Jessie sounds to me as if she has the power, but is not accessing the space to create those big, slow, deep resonances.
Did that make it even a little clearer???
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Post by flyteplan on Apr 29, 2011 0:10:29 GMT -5
Just thought of a better wave analogy. Big waves (low frequencies) take two things to form: Force/energy and space. If you have a high wind, but a shallow, small pond you get chop and froth, but no big waves. No room to form. If you have an ocean but no wind, you get a flat sea, no waves. No energy to form them. So, to create low frequency subharmonics in your voice you need to open up the resonators in your body to the max, and focus the sound there. Then you have to have the breath/muscle control to sustain a note with power and support. Jessie sounds to me as if she has the power, but is not accessing the space to create those big, slow, deep resonances. Did that make it even a little clearer??? Hi Cassie,,, ummm it was me that was asking about jessies voice,, and yes that did make it clearer,, thankyou so much for taking the time to explain it,, i need to read it a few more times,lol,, it has also helped me understand why i love adams voice so much,, thanks again
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Post by cassie on Apr 29, 2011 1:29:13 GMT -5
I think I may have thoroughly confused some of you with my talks about harmonics in voices. What the hell are these harmonics she is going on about??? Any musical note is produced by vibrations or oscillations. The number of oscillations per second determines the pitch of the note. For example, middle C (C4) on the piano vibrates at approximately 262 cycles per second. (Okay, it is precisely 262.626, but my math ain't good enough to deal with decimals. So go with me at 262, okay?) If you play a C4 on a flute, the air column inside of the flute oscillates at 262 cycles per second. Pluck a C4 on a guitar string? The string vibrates at 262 cycles. Hit a C4 on a xylophone, the wood vibrates at 262 cycles. Sing a C4, your vocal cords vibrate at 262 cycles. That is the FUNDAMENTAL frequency. However, all these things that vibrate also produce other vibrations at other frequencies. They just are not as strong as the fundamental frequency. These are called harmonics (or overtones). They are mathematical multiples of the fundamental frequency. So, 524, 1048, and 2096, for example. Our brain does not hear these as separate, distinct notes, but as the fundamental frequency with different tones or timbres. Each instrument produces these harmonic frequencies at different intensities or loudness. If the lower harmonics are most prominent, the tone sounds warm. If the higher harmonics are predominant, the tone sounds shrill, piercing, sharp. All instruments and voices naturally produce harmonics --- some sounding more pleasing to our individual ears and brains than others. If you want to hear JUST the fundamental frequency you have to use electronics. Ever had a hearing test? The tones they use are called pure tones. Here are samples to listen to: www.fearofphysics.com/Sound/400hz.mp3You can clearly hear the note, but it sounds dull, lifeless. No warmth, no ring. That's because it is missing the harmonics. There are other factors that influence how we hear tone or timbre in a voice or an instrument, but let's just stick to the basics for this post. Since we cannot hear the individual harmonic frequencies in a note that Adam sings, we cannot state exactly what makes it sound/feel so good. But, one theory is that his voice (and how he has trained himself to use it) contains the right balance of harmonics that sound clear, rich, smooth, and round to our brain. They may also be just the right combination that produces sympathetic harmonics in our own bodies. Perhaps that is why we say we FEEL Adam's voice as well as hear it. We EXPERIENCE it. Perhaps that is also why some poor, unfortunate folks don't respond as we do to the voice. It doesn't produce the same harmonic resonance in their bodies as it does in ours. Just a theory.
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Post by gelly14 on Apr 29, 2011 3:53:12 GMT -5
cassie I really really appreciate that you took the time to answer my question about Jessie J and also tried to explain so many things. I always learn from you, at least I try, sometimes its difficult with my lack of knowledge both in music and the English language. I love so many different artists with so many different sounds and this thing you said about how the harmonics resonate in our bodies or its partially taste, I guess that's it. All I know is how they make me feel, sometimes I dont care if I dont understand all the words, (I know this may not sound so good but I'm telling the truth) but if they make me really feel something when they sing or perform, I'm hooked. Sometimes I listen to a song from a foreing language I dont know and I feel something. Of course NO ONE can or will ever make me feel the way Adam does. NO one. Not even Ian Anderson or Freddie Mercury even though I love their songs much more than I love Adam's songs. But comparing right now about songs isnt fair cause Adam is only starting now. YES!!!Major pain therapy for my soul. MAJOR! I could NEVER EVER thought that a singer would help me get through my every day life but its true. I REPEAT MAJOR!!!I cannot be thankfull enough for the help he's giving me EVERY DAY.
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Post by rihannsu on Apr 30, 2011 0:20:50 GMT -5
Here's a slightly hilarious bit of info about the effect of music. There was a study done in France with Dairy cows and the effect of music being played to the cows on milk production. The results showed that not only did music affect milk production but that certain music was more effective in stimulating milk production. U2 was determined to cause the greatest increase in production of all the music studied. I wish I had saved the link to the articles about it because it was really fascinating and the U2 fans found it incredibly funny. I wasn't really surprised though because throughout their career their music has been described as healing, uplifting and even cathartic. Adam's voice to me has that same healing quality to it. His voice more than just pleasing to listen to but it actually affects you. Bono often says that of course music can change the world because it changes the atmosphere in a room and affects the mood of the people who are listening. When they are writing music they pay more attention to how the music makes them feel than how it sounds. This is why U2 and their fans say that a U2 song isn't finished until it is played for an audience because the reaction of the crowd can and does change the song. If you ask just about any U2 fan for the definitive recording of a U2 song they will only very rarely choose an original studio version. I think FYE is the same way. Of the songs Adam performed live the fans will almost always choose those versions over the album because the energy of the audience affects the song and the way Adam performs it. ETA: As for 16 year old talent check this kid out www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WIu6M3MpE&feature=youtu.be
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Post by nica575 on Apr 30, 2011 10:50:39 GMT -5
Folks, I want to share my unbelievable week - Metropolitan Opera- Monday: Die Walkure with : Conductor: James Levine Brünnhilde: Deborah Voigt Sieglinde: Eva Maria Westbroek Fricka: Stephanie Blythe Siegmund: Jonas Kaufmann Wotan: Bryn Terfel Hunding: Hans-Peter König the whole new production of the Ring Cycle is really epic! The voices are one better that the other! 5 hours flew as if time did not exist (we all know that feeling ); the stage production is unbelievable - it is a triumph of imagination, art and engineering! I found this about the production - the music is the "flight of the Valkyries " There were many cameras - so I am sure they were recording for the Met Live run in movie theaters - watch out for that! (Can you imaging this type of production resources for an Adam show???? - we would all be dead!) and Wed: Il Travatore with: Conductor: Marco Armiliato Leonora: Sondra Radvanovsky Azucena: Dolora Zajick Manrico: Marcelo Álvarez di Luna: Dmitri Hvorostovsky Ferrando: Stefan Kocán I can't even express the beauty and the strength of Sondra's voice. If you ever have a chance to here her live - RUN! and I've raved about Khvorostovsky enough on ATOP. So, I ended my opera season on a huge bang! The only thing I found on You Tube (quick search) is the concert performance - this is Leonora begging Count Di Luna to spare Manrico's life by offering herself and secretly taking poison... The bonus for me is that this took place at the superbly beautiful concert hall of the Moscow Music Conservatory, where I spent many an hour of my childhood (the last few seconds show the hall) Now I want new music from Adam, or just new singing - I so hope we'll get recordings from Moscow!
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Post by csharpminor on Apr 30, 2011 13:52:28 GMT -5
Nica for you
What is the appropriate word in English? Interpretation, musicianship, musicality? (My English is poor.) Like with Adam. You feel, the audience feels. (Unless it is an unfortunate audience like Cassie correctly said.) You are born with it or you are not.
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Post by nica575 on Apr 30, 2011 16:48:53 GMT -5
Nica for you What is the appropriate word in English? Interpretation, musicianship, musicality? (My English is poor.) Like with Adam. You feel, the audience feels. (Unless it is an unfortunate audience like Cassie correctly said.) You are born with it or you are not. Thank you, my dear csharpminor. I listened and cried. The song is a memorial to all the soldiers who did not come back from the WWII.... the lyrics and the music and the performance are heart wrenching... (I own a DVD from that particular concert).- Dimitri is an amazing artist, with many interesting projects aside from his "traditional" opera career...he actually started in a rock band! (my little hope for you know whom....) Also - your English is great! I understood what you meant perfectly! Please post more! (Sorry people, I can talk about Dimitry ALMOST as much as about Adam...well...not exactly... :D ) I can't help but post a little more sexy glory ;D:
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Post by musicgirl on May 1, 2011 17:06:46 GMT -5
Folks, I want to share my unbelievable week - Metropolitan Opera- Monday: Die Walkure with : Conductor: James Levine Brünnhilde: Deborah Voigt Sieglinde: Eva Maria Westbroek Fricka: Stephanie Blythe Siegmund: Jonas Kaufmann Wotan: Bryn Terfel Hunding: Hans-Peter König the whole new production of the Ring Cycle is really epic! The voices are one better that the other! 5 hours flew as if time did not exist (we all know that feeling ); the stage production is unbelievable - it is a triumph of imagination, art and engineering! I found this about the production - the music is the "flight of the Valkyries " There were many cameras - so I am sure they were recording for the Met Live run in movie theaters - watch out for that! (Can you imaging this type of production resources for an Adam show???? - we would all be dead!) and Wed: Il Travatore with: Conductor: Marco Armiliato Leonora: Sondra Radvanovsky Azucena: Dolora Zajick Manrico: Marcelo Álvarez di Luna: Dmitri Hvorostovsky Ferrando: Stefan Kocán I can't even express the beauty and the strength of Sondra's voice. If you ever have a chance to here her live - RUN! and I've raved about Khvorostovsky enough on ATOP. So, I ended my opera season on a huge bang! The only thing I found on You Tube (quick search) is the concert performance - this is Leonora begging Count Di Luna to spare Manrico's life by offering herself and secretly taking poison... The bonus for me is that this took place at the superbly beautiful concert hall of the Moscow Music Conservatory, where I spent many an hour of my childhood (the last few seconds show the hall) Now I want new music from Adam, or just new singing - I so hope we'll get recordings from Moscow! Hi nicaHaven't been on the thread for awhile, and am now catching up-just wanted to tell you I had tickets for Il Trovatore last night-a production of the Met Live in HD here in Croatia; unfortunately, couldn't go ( I bought tickets months in advance) -but my mother went, and said it was awesome, and Dmitri sensational We also have tickets for Die Walkure on May 14; can't wait to hear it:-* I've seen quite a few productions from the Met ever since they started with the live streaming thing a couple of years back; like with Atopia, where I've got to meet people from all over the world I'd never otherwise know of, the globalization part of the whole thing just floors me: I can listen and experience all those wonderful productions without actually going to NY- The first time I went, I cried ( it was Puccini's "Turandot"..the production was..WOW...had seen the opera before, but seeing it in the full splendor the Met can provide, I was like...OMG. It blew me away) (I've actually been to NY a few years ago, and have a picture in front of the Met-didn't have the money for tickets-and said to myself, I'll get to see operas in the Met one day- and now, I have -not exactly the way I originally imagined it, but still note to self: be more specific in visualizations next time ) I'm so happy I can "go" to the Met with my Atop friend, on the top of it all Big hugs to all on this thread and kudos to Cassie especially for giving so much insight and helpful information on all kinds of vocal-related themes; I looove reading all of the discussion that goes around here. Love you all ps regarding the dairy cows and music, as discussed above; also read about it a couple years back; makes total sense to me; couldn't find that exact article, but, after a very quick Google search, I found this one; news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1408434.stm
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