Dance Rhythms
Nov 30, 2015 0:31:41 GMT -5
Post by DancyGeorgia on Nov 30, 2015 0:31:41 GMT -5
I've started a new thread Dance Rhythms in the Vocal Masterclass section to give a very technical answer to the following discussion from the Daily News thread:
Of the traditional competitive ballroom dances, Another Lonely Night would best fit as a Foxtrot. Although it doesn't have quite the right vibe for a traditional "smooth" type Foxtrot, but works well as a "swing" type Foxtrot. International style Foxtrot tends to use the more "smooth" type Foxtrot music, but American style Foxtrot tends to use either the "smooth" or "swing" type Foxtrot music.
Personally, the dance that ALN makes me want to do is West Coast Swing!! It is perfect for West Coast Swing!! It would even fit as a slower East Coast Swing, but is too slow for a Jive and doesn't quite have a Jive feel. There are a lot of songs that are very interchangeable between Foxtrot, West Coast Swing, and East Coast Swing as they have that "swing" feel to the beat.
ALN is slow enough for an American style Rumba (which is faster than an International style Rumba). But it has the entirely wrong rhythm structure for a Rumba as it has a very strong "swing" rhythm. But someone could do a remix with a Rumba rthytm and it would fit beautifully.
I could get far more technical about dance rhythms and what makes a song "feel" like one dance or another, if anyone really wants to know.
While I'm at it, my ideal dance for Ghost Town would be a Hustle. The sections with a heavy beat would also work for Cha Cha. And one could even dance West Coast Swing to Ghost Town. (West Coast Swing is THE most versatile dance there is. It can work for a lot of different types of music, including a lot of pop music.)
I would love to hear more detail about this, DancyGeorgia! 
Basically, what makes a song suitable for a particular dance is the time signature (4/4, 3/4, 6/8, etc), which beats are accented, which beats are held, and any notes played in between the beats. Waltz is in 3/4 time, Viennese Waltz is in 6/8 time, and all other dances are in 4/4 time. Although Hustle can be danced to 3/4 time music and various swing dances can be danced to 6/8 time music. See for instance the discussion about the time signature and suitable dances for Someone To Love in the Vocal Masterclass thread:
adamtopia.com/post/530566/thread
adamtopia.com/post/530570/thread
adamtopia.com/post/530575/thread
Rumba has a very definite rhythm pattern. If you count the beats of a measure of a 4/4 time song as 1,2,3,4 then Rumba has a strong step on 1, holds on 2, followed by steps on 3,4. You could count it as 1,-,3,4 where "-" indicates the hold. The underlying rhythm section of a good Rumba song follows this same pattern and has a strong accent on beat 1 and a light accent on beat 3. The accents are on the odd beats.
For Swing dances, you have to count the notes in between the major beats, i.e., 1,&,2,&,3,&,4,&. The underlying rhythm in good swing dance music follows the pattern 1,&,2,-,3,&,4,- with accents on the even beats. While Swing dances follow this general swing music rhythm, Swing dance patterns generally take up 6 or 8 counts of music rather than 4 counts. The Swing dances Jive, East Coast Swing, West Coast Swing, and Carolina Shag predominantly use 6 count patterns with some 8 count patterns thrown in for variety. Lindy Hop, another Swing dance, predominantly uses 8 count patterns.
A 6 count swing pattern can be counted in 2 ways with steps on (A) 1,&,2,-,3,&,4,5,-,6,- or (B) 1,-,2,-,3,&,4,-,5,&,6,- where again the "-" indicates a hold, i.e., no step taken (steps taken on numbers and "&"). An 8 count swing pattern can be counted as (C) 1,&,2,-,3,-,4,-,5,&,6,-,7,-,8,- or (D) 1,-,2,-,3,&,4,-,5,-,6,-,7,&,8,- West Coast Swing & Carolina Shag use the (B) and (D) counting while Jive & East Coast Swig may use either but generally uses the (A) and (C) counting, especially in social dancing. The 6 count patterns is why West Coast Swing could be danced to a very slow 6/8 song like STL. But generally, swing is danced in combinations of the basic 6 and 8 count patterns and "extended" patterns of 10, 12, 16, etc counts or "shortened" patterns of 2 or 4 counts. The better dancers, or at least ones with a strong music background, will try to mix the combination of patterns to exactly fit each 32 count measure.
The above discussion of the swing rhythm is actually very simplified both in terms of the musical beats and the dance counts, but is how social dancers count it and dance it. To discuss it on a higher level, each beat needs to be divided into 3 or 4 parts. For each beat divided into 4 parts, the count would be 1,e,&,a,2,e,&,a,3,e,&,a,4,e,&,a where "a" is generally pronounced "ah" and the numbers are the major 4 beats of the 4/4 measure. Highly trained ballroom dancers would dance Jive and East Coast Swing as 1,-,-,a,2,-,-,-,3,-,-,a,4,-,-,-,5,-,-,-,6,-,-,- etc. Good swing dance music for ballroom competitions also follows this pattern of the in between note being on "a" rather than "&".
Now, there is debated "discussion" among people I know who are both dancers and musicians about whether swing music is defined by dividing each beat into 4 parts are 3 parts. More traditional swing music has what is known as a "rolling triple", i.e., the notes between the beats is divided into 3 identical parts 1,&,a,2,&,a,3,&,a,4,&,a and danced as 1,-,a,2,-,-,3,-,a,4,-,-,5,-,-,6,-,- etc. The above links point to other links with very detailed discussions of this if you are interested.
ETA - The bottom line on whether to divide each beat into 2, 3, or 4 equal parts and dance the swing rhythm that way really depends on the finer details of the underlying rhythm of the song and the level of the dancer. On top of that, in the social swing dance world, there are 3 variations of East Coast Swing (a.k.a. Jitterbug) called single-time swing, double-time swing, and triple-time swing. Triple-time swing is just the usual East Coast Swing rhythm and dance. Single-time swing is danced 1,-,3,-,5,6 i.e., it deletes some of the steps and is done to really fast swing music. Double-time swing is danced 1,2,3,4,5,6 where 1 and 3 are taps and the rest are actual steps. There is some swing dance music that has a really strong double-time swing rhythm, but I can't remember one at this time.
Personally, the dance that ALN makes me want to do is West Coast Swing!! It is perfect for West Coast Swing!! It would even fit as a slower East Coast Swing, but is too slow for a Jive and doesn't quite have a Jive feel. There are a lot of songs that are very interchangeable between Foxtrot, West Coast Swing, and East Coast Swing as they have that "swing" feel to the beat.
ALN is slow enough for an American style Rumba (which is faster than an International style Rumba). But it has the entirely wrong rhythm structure for a Rumba as it has a very strong "swing" rhythm. But someone could do a remix with a Rumba rthytm and it would fit beautifully.
I could get far more technical about dance rhythms and what makes a song "feel" like one dance or another, if anyone really wants to know.
While I'm at it, my ideal dance for Ghost Town would be a Hustle. The sections with a heavy beat would also work for Cha Cha. And one could even dance West Coast Swing to Ghost Town. (West Coast Swing is THE most versatile dance there is. It can work for a lot of different types of music, including a lot of pop music.)
adamtopia.com/post/530566/thread
adamtopia.com/post/530570/thread
adamtopia.com/post/530575/thread
Rumba has a very definite rhythm pattern. If you count the beats of a measure of a 4/4 time song as 1,2,3,4 then Rumba has a strong step on 1, holds on 2, followed by steps on 3,4. You could count it as 1,-,3,4 where "-" indicates the hold. The underlying rhythm section of a good Rumba song follows this same pattern and has a strong accent on beat 1 and a light accent on beat 3. The accents are on the odd beats.
For Swing dances, you have to count the notes in between the major beats, i.e., 1,&,2,&,3,&,4,&. The underlying rhythm in good swing dance music follows the pattern 1,&,2,-,3,&,4,- with accents on the even beats. While Swing dances follow this general swing music rhythm, Swing dance patterns generally take up 6 or 8 counts of music rather than 4 counts. The Swing dances Jive, East Coast Swing, West Coast Swing, and Carolina Shag predominantly use 6 count patterns with some 8 count patterns thrown in for variety. Lindy Hop, another Swing dance, predominantly uses 8 count patterns.
A 6 count swing pattern can be counted in 2 ways with steps on (A) 1,&,2,-,3,&,4,5,-,6,- or (B) 1,-,2,-,3,&,4,-,5,&,6,- where again the "-" indicates a hold, i.e., no step taken (steps taken on numbers and "&"). An 8 count swing pattern can be counted as (C) 1,&,2,-,3,-,4,-,5,&,6,-,7,-,8,- or (D) 1,-,2,-,3,&,4,-,5,-,6,-,7,&,8,- West Coast Swing & Carolina Shag use the (B) and (D) counting while Jive & East Coast Swig may use either but generally uses the (A) and (C) counting, especially in social dancing. The 6 count patterns is why West Coast Swing could be danced to a very slow 6/8 song like STL. But generally, swing is danced in combinations of the basic 6 and 8 count patterns and "extended" patterns of 10, 12, 16, etc counts or "shortened" patterns of 2 or 4 counts. The better dancers, or at least ones with a strong music background, will try to mix the combination of patterns to exactly fit each 32 count measure.
The above discussion of the swing rhythm is actually very simplified both in terms of the musical beats and the dance counts, but is how social dancers count it and dance it. To discuss it on a higher level, each beat needs to be divided into 3 or 4 parts. For each beat divided into 4 parts, the count would be 1,e,&,a,2,e,&,a,3,e,&,a,4,e,&,a where "a" is generally pronounced "ah" and the numbers are the major 4 beats of the 4/4 measure. Highly trained ballroom dancers would dance Jive and East Coast Swing as 1,-,-,a,2,-,-,-,3,-,-,a,4,-,-,-,5,-,-,-,6,-,-,- etc. Good swing dance music for ballroom competitions also follows this pattern of the in between note being on "a" rather than "&".
Now, there is debated "discussion" among people I know who are both dancers and musicians about whether swing music is defined by dividing each beat into 4 parts are 3 parts. More traditional swing music has what is known as a "rolling triple", i.e., the notes between the beats is divided into 3 identical parts 1,&,a,2,&,a,3,&,a,4,&,a and danced as 1,-,a,2,-,-,3,-,a,4,-,-,5,-,-,6,-,- etc. The above links point to other links with very detailed discussions of this if you are interested.
ETA - The bottom line on whether to divide each beat into 2, 3, or 4 equal parts and dance the swing rhythm that way really depends on the finer details of the underlying rhythm of the song and the level of the dancer. On top of that, in the social swing dance world, there are 3 variations of East Coast Swing (a.k.a. Jitterbug) called single-time swing, double-time swing, and triple-time swing. Triple-time swing is just the usual East Coast Swing rhythm and dance. Single-time swing is danced 1,-,3,-,5,6 i.e., it deletes some of the steps and is done to really fast swing music. Double-time swing is danced 1,2,3,4,5,6 where 1 and 3 are taps and the rest are actual steps. There is some swing dance music that has a really strong double-time swing rhythm, but I can't remember one at this time.