sarah
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Post by sarah on Mar 17, 2018 14:42:04 GMT -5
This isn't really on-topic anymore, I guess, but in the interest of clarity on the matter of consent, Benjamin said this: That doesn't remove the issue of the power dynamics at play in this situation, or the more general social/cultural problems (think of how differently this would be perceived, with or without "consent," if the genders were reversed), but I take back what I said about the consent aspect for his case, since he claims to have been fully aware of it, at least as a possibility. Thanks for providing a bit more clarity, sarah . It isn't new to me that reality shows get edited, but again I find it quite startling how a story or situation can get twisted for maximum impact. Yeah, it is a weird edit they chose, when they could have given proper context and spared themselves, Katy, and Benjamin part of the circus that this moment generated. I guess they don't mind courting exaggerated controversy if it brings in a few more viewers.
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Post by sizzling63 on Mar 17, 2018 14:55:06 GMT -5
Thanks for providing a bit more clarity, sarah . It isn't new to me that reality shows get edited, but again I find it quite startling how a story or situation can get twisted for maximum impact. Yeah, it is a weird edit they chose, when they could have given proper context and spared themselves, Katy, and Benjamin part of the circus that this moment generated. I guess they don't mind courting exaggerated controversy if it brings in a few more viewers.Yup.
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Post by Jablea on Mar 17, 2018 15:23:22 GMT -5
Thanks for providing a bit more clarity, sarah . It isn't new to me that reality shows get edited, but again I find it quite startling how a story or situation can get twisted for maximum impact. Yeah, it is a weird edit they chose, when they could have given proper context and spared themselves, Katy, and Benjamin part of the circus that this moment generated. I guess they don't mind courting exaggerated controversy if it brings in a few more viewers. I don't think the part they left out would have helped any. Knowing "maybe" while you are being pressured by the judges is really not any different than what happened. Knowing beforehand means enough time to actually think things thru and that's not on camera time in front of the judges, that's out in the waiting room or the day before. For me it's not less and he may be feeling ok about it now but that okness didn't come out in the first interview he gave so who knows how he felt then and not now when he's had months to process.
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sarah
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Post by sarah on Mar 17, 2018 16:23:02 GMT -5
Yeah, it is a weird edit they chose, when they could have given proper context and spared themselves, Katy, and Benjamin part of the circus that this moment generated. I guess they don't mind courting exaggerated controversy if it brings in a few more viewers. I don't think the part they left out would have helped any. Knowing "maybe" while you are being pressured by the judges is really not any different than what happened. Knowing beforehand means enough time to actually think things thru and that's not on camera time in front of the judges, that's out in the waiting room or the day before. For me it's not less and he may be feeling ok about it now but that okness didn't come out in the first interview he gave so who knows how he felt then and not now when he's had months to process. You're right, yes. The situation and all the power dynamics are still very problematic. Also, like you say, there's a lot of cultural/social pressure for him to respond in a certain way, where he will be seen as ungrateful or petty if he was as uncomfortable as he originally stated. So many ways that gendered behavior is guided in society to maintain a certain status quo.
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3ku1
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Post by 3ku1 on Mar 17, 2018 17:08:43 GMT -5
On the Katy/Idol fiasco. Idol have clearly reinforced a double standard here. I mean if we want Equality, then the same standard should be set for men and woman. I mean imagine the uproar if Lionel or Luke kissed a young woman? SO yeah. And its not disturbing because it would be if the gender roles were reversed. Its disturbing either way. The kid obviousley is not traumatised. But he clearly was caught off guard, and was uncomfortable about the whole thing. Idol do edit alot of what they put on TV. I wonder why they kept the Katy kiss in? It was clearly wildly innapropriate. Ratings? Maybe.
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sarah
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Post by sarah on Mar 17, 2018 23:42:38 GMT -5
On the Katy/Idol fiasco. Idol have clearly reinforced a double standard here. I mean if we want Equality, then the same standard should be set for men and woman. I mean imagine the uproar if Lionel or Luke kissed a young woman? SO yeah. And its not disturbing because it would be if the gender roles were reversed. Its disturbing either way. The kid obviousley is not traumatised. But he clearly was caught off guard, and was uncomfortable about the whole thing. Idol do edit alot of what they put on TV. I wonder why they kept the Katy kiss in? It was clearly wildly innapropriate. Ratings? Maybe. I agree. It should be equally disturbing no matter the gender, and I wish we had more of a conversation in society when this kind of double standard pops up. We do in academia, but not really as a culture, at least outside of news stories that are treated like isolated events. Why do we feel so differently depending on the roles of the genders in question? Speaking broadly about culture, it says a lot about who we see as sexual actors and as sexual objects, and how society allows and punishes sexual behavior in all sorts of problematic ways. (What I meant by the gendered behavior in this instance is that, because of gender expectations in the US, he is pressured to feel like he's unlocked a level in masculinity because a famous woman gave him his first kiss and he should feel honored or flattered, whereas a teen girl being kissed by Lionel or Luke wouldn't have the same associations or expectations. Lionel or Luke would be seen as very much in the wrong, because men are culturally seen as sexual actors, but Katy is allowed more room to act "playfully" because women are seen more as sexual objects who can't hurt anyone, really. Sort of the same general reason that faux-lesbian behavior onstage is allowed and even enjoyed, but Adam's AMA performance was treated like an assault on family values. It's very wrong on many levels, not the least because it allows people like this kid to be in the situation he was in.) Such a weird edit. I think ratings and social media buzz are the most likely reasons.
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