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Post by lisnick on Jan 12, 2012 6:06:59 GMT -5
Thank you Zinnia and Miachihu for all the translation you both have done especially for someone like me living half a continent away from US or Finland, and the first Finnish language, i recognized now, was from Sauli & K Tutka - it's a very cute language though. Thanks again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 6:21:50 GMT -5
Catching up on all the goodies today, and just read the Tutka translation-- thanks again to both of you, and YAY, how cool that Katri and Sauli know about your translations!!!! You're famous! A couple random thoughts... I wonder what is the "surprise" that Katri mentioned near the end of the vid? After Adam's interviews today, it seems that he'll be heading to Europe at the end of January. I wonder if Sauli will accompany him, and so maybe the surprise is that he and Katri will do some Tutkas together again? Just musing... Also I have a question about a phrase that has come up in the last couple of Tutkas. When Sauli was talking about trying to download the tv-watching program on his computer, he said he was "losing his nerves" over it. And that reminded me that in the last Tutka when they were talking about Sauli returning early to the U.S., Katri said several times that Sauli "lost his nerves" and Sauli said the same thing. When I read the phrase in the post-Christmas Tutka, the way I took the meaning is that Sauli lost his courage or became a bit frightened (which is how we use "lost my nerve" here). But in today's Tutka, I felt like Sauli was saying he lost his patience with the computer program and that he didn't have a lot of patience for complicated computer issues. So now I'm wondering if the Finnish phrase in both situations was the same and if I misunderstood his meaning about leaving Finland early. Did he simply mean that he lost patience with the darkness and the lack of snow? LOL I know this is very much going into tiny details, but I love words and I love figuring out little nuances of meaning  Thanks again for all you do!  You're welcome! Katri and Sauli both are really nice and sweet! It will be interesting to see what the surprise is. Now Sauli just mentioned a surprise visitor in his official blog - could it be...? ;D Well, we'll see it soon. About the "losing the nerves": Thank you for bringing this up! Another example of how words can have several meanings. In all of the Tutkas where we have used this expression, we've meant that Katri or Sauli have become annoyed or angry or lost their patience. I have heard "losing the nerves" used in this way, as well as "losing one's courage", like you said, and that's why we've used it here. If the more correct meaning is the latter one, then the translations unfortunately might have given the wrong impressions. Sorry, if this is the case. :( If any of you come across something that sounds or feels funny in our translations, please tell us! Since I or Zinnia are not native English speakers, it is certain that the language is not always perfect and sometimes there might be even something wrong in the translation. So just ask us! That gives us a chance to correct those possible mistakes and we can also learn more about the English language! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2012 6:22:50 GMT -5
Skylar and lisnick, You're welcome! |
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Post by Jablea on Jan 12, 2012 11:36:37 GMT -5
About the "losing the nerves": Thank you for bringing this up! Another example of how words can have several meanings. In all of the Tutkas where we have used this expression, we've meant that Katri or Sauli have become annoyed or angry or lost their patience. I have heard "losing the nerves" used in this way, as well as "losing one's courage", like you said, and that's why we've used it here. If the more correct meaning is the latter one, then the translations unfortunately might have given the wrong impressions. Sorry, if this is the case. :( If any of you come across something that sounds or feels funny in our translations, please tell us! Since I or Zinnia are not native English speakers, it is certain that the language is not always perfect and sometimes there might be even something wrong in the translation. So just ask us! That gives us a chance to correct those possible mistakes and we can also learn more about the English language! From your explanation I think that most Americans feel that "losing my nerves" is the same as "losing my courage" or the state of being nervous, both of which tend to equate with weakness in our culture and so probably isn't what you mean. From the sounds of it "I lost my patience and got mad when my kid didn't do his chores" or "I was anxious to get home after being away" might be perceived better. I even think in the case of coming home after Christmas that he might have been "jittery" or "hyped up" like when you can't hold still and you bounce in place, almost losing control of your nervous system because you need to get out and move or see new sights or familiar ones. But those two words aren't great either because we've come to associate them with drug use. I think there is just such a gap culturally with respect to what Americans tend to denigrate as female traits (it's what happens when you have a history of slave holding and not letting women vote etc) and you don't have those same hang ups in Finland so showing your softer side is ok for a man whereas here so many men wouldn't mention such a thing out loud. We didn't discuss it but the tweets about Adam crying during the DTM incident you could tell were trying to be supportive but if they had come from an American person it could have been perceived as an insult and as weak since "real" men don't cry. You gals do such an awesome job and are really good at giving explanations so I think in the end everyone gets the important concepts and a fun insight about Sauli. |
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Post by glitztripper on Jan 12, 2012 14:20:47 GMT -5
Yeah, definitely. To loose ones nerve means to want to do something and then be too afraid to. I have never heard it used any other way.
Actually that is a phrase S &K seem to use a lot and it has always seemed odd. I, too, never have understood why he "lost his nerve" (ie: was afraid) and came home early from Finland. Can we assume he meant instead that he was anxious to get home?
Thank you NoAngel for bringing this up!! And of course THANK YOU Miachihu and Zinnia for translating. I especially enjoyed the fun of this latest Tutka.
ETA: Jamblea: I really think that the perception that "real men don't cry" comes only from men. I think American woman welcome this display of emotion. But I did think it was odd that some of the people on this site (and not just the Americans!) were troubled because the crying was mentioned. He obviously was in a stressful situation and I truly think that men can understand this, if not admit it. And Adam cries during songs--of course he cried during this! I really think he would not be ashamed of it at all. America may have some bad history but I'm not sure how this ties in.
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Post by hannahkharon on Jan 12, 2012 17:31:42 GMT -5
This is so educative! I am Finnish too and love to read the comments about recipes and translations! Been learning about foodstuffs differences and English. Thank you all about discussion and thank Sauli to made this happening! |
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scotia
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Post by scotia on Jan 12, 2012 19:43:28 GMT -5
I'm guessing the surprise visitor could be Niko or one of his sisters. Guess we'll find out tomorrow :)Hope we get to see more of his modeling shots!
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maria1
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Post by maria1 on Jan 12, 2012 21:06:49 GMT -5
I think there is just such a gap culturally with respect to what Americans tend to denigrate as female traits (it's what happens when you have a history of slave holding and not letting women vote etc) and you don't have those same hang ups in Finland so showing your softer side is ok for a man whereas here so many men wouldn't mention such a thing out loud. We didn't discuss it but the tweets about Adam crying during the DTM incident you could tell were trying to be supportive but if they had come from an American person it could have been perceived as an insult and as weak since "real" men don't cry. Well, also Finns say that men don't cry. But that is maybe more men, and that attitude has been changing during the past few decades. A generalization coming up: I've noticed among my gay friends that they show their feelings more than straight men. As an example, we were listening Christmas songs on Thanksgiving, and one of my friends changed the music saying that ever since his grandmother died around Christmas time, hearing Christmas songs has made him feel like crying. Another talked about how thankful he is that his colleagues at his new job are more understanding and supportive than in the old job, and he was on the verge of tears. I can't imagine many of my straight male friends saying either things, and I would have a long list of similar examples. It seems to me that it would be more acceptable that gay men were more emotional and expressive. Same applies to artists. Adam being a gay artist, to me it would feel like him crying should not be a big deal and should not be connected to "manliness". Is there a difference in American culture that I hadn't realized? |
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Post by glitztripper on Jan 12, 2012 22:49:48 GMT -5
I think there is just such a gap culturally with respect to what Americans tend to denigrate as female traits (it's what happens when you have a history of slave holding and not letting women vote etc) and you don't have those same hang ups in Finland so showing your softer side is ok for a man whereas here so many men wouldn't mention such a thing out loud. We didn't discuss it but the tweets about Adam crying during the DTM incident you could tell were trying to be supportive but if they had come from an American person it could have been perceived as an insult and as weak since "real" men don't cry. Well, also Finns say that men don't cry. But that is maybe more men, and that attitude has been changing during the past few decades. A generalization coming up: I've noticed among my gay friends that they show their feelings more than straight men. As an example, we were listening Christmas songs on Thanksgiving, and one of my friends changed the music saying that ever since his grandmother died around Christmas time, hearing Christmas songs has made him feel like crying. Another talked about how thankful he is that his colleagues at his new job are more understanding and supportive than in the old job, and he was on the verge of tears. I can't imagine many of my straight male friends saying either things, and I would have a long list of similar examples. It seems to me that it would be more acceptable that gay men were more emotional and expressive. Same applies to artists. Adam being a gay artist, to me it would feel like him crying should not be a big deal and should not be connected to "manliness". Is there a difference in American culture that I hadn't realized? I think it's the same in America. People like to dwell on differences but when it comes down to it, people are people regardless of nationality. Women cry easier than men--and I think this is more than just upbringing. Not an expert but maybe gay men are, as Adam says, more connected with their feminine side. |
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NoAngel
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Post by NoAngel on Jan 13, 2012 0:10:14 GMT -5
I forgot til now to check back in and what an interesting discussion! I was thinking today while driving, that finding words to express human emotions is so challenging, and trying to translate phrases about emotions and moods is the most challenging thing of all. Not just because of different sayings that are almost impossible to precisely translate, but also because of cultural differences in what emotions are seen as positive and negative.
I agree with those here who have said that "losing one's nerve" is seen in a pretty negative way in the U.S., where we make a big fuss about being tough and brave, lol.
My opinion on the fans' reaction to hearing about Adam crying is that it wasn't about him showing weakness, because I think most female fans have no problem with a man crying. I feel like it was more the fact that we felt awful that he felt bad enough to cry, and our hearts hurt for him. We love him so much, and in the time we've "known" him, he really hasn't been the crying type, so this was unique and it made a lot of people sad thinking about Adam being sad. Of course, the fact that he was drunk and exhausted and jetlagged explains why his emotions were so close to the surface.
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