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Post by pi on Jun 29, 2020 22:06:05 GMT -5
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Post by toramenor on Jun 29, 2020 22:52:50 GMT -5
From the Billboard Pride article that Pi Posted- thought I'd post this since Adam's comment is sort of becoming a classic Many of the special guests on the roundtable shared their own personal experiences with homophobia in the industry. At one point, pop singer Parson James even revealed that he encountered homophobia from queer executives in the industry.
“These two gay men that were running this company literally told me, ‘Maybe you should tone it down and not be too honest,'" he said. "It was super discouraging for that to be my first instance of ‘okay, will this is what it’s going to be like, even the gays running this company aren’t on my side.'”
Lambert understood exactly what James was describing, having experienced it himself many times. “The ‘tone it down’ comment is etched in poison in my mind. I’ve heard it for years and it’s the worst thing."
peace&love This is an interesting discussion and may be I am missing a key ingredient here, so please enlighten me if I do. Why do you think gay artists are advised to "tone it down", even by their own peers? From my perspective, artists are pretty much free to do whatever, however for most who like to be commercially successful or even get a label deal it comes down to compromise. It is all about general appeal, and unfortunately many gay artists have to choose if they are willing to make adjustments. I think we have come a long way already, but it is a process. I am not trying to tell you what to do, but you should really watch the roundtable if you are interested in understanding why it's important for LGBTQ artists to be fully themselves and not toned down. Justin Tranter can get his songs heard by literally hundreds of millions of people IF they are sung by straight artists. Being gay is still perceived in most of the world as wrong or bad, which isn't true of course, but the music executives only care about money, not art, so they want to sign and promote artists that are straight or masking as straight because that's safe. They don't want to struggle or fight or take a stand. They want returns on their investment. But the LGBT artists have no choice but to go through that struggle; their very existence is a statement. They all talked about this. Alex Newel told executives: I am going to do what I want, and if you're not there yet, catch up. These artists have had so little support at times, ONLY because they wanted to freely express themselves as artists, not because their art was bad or unappealing. And that is because of homophobia/transphobia. If you deny somebody an opportunity solely on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity, that is also discrimination. And it is everywhere, including in the music industry. That is what the panel explains, and they also talk about finding ways around it, fighting for your own artistry, believing in yourself and believing that you will one day be successful despite all the roadblocks. These artists are not all as famous as Adam, though some are already extremely successful too. It's important to see that, as well. That you can be a successful lgbtq artist in the music world - the more of them who reach success, the more open minded the music executives are (hopefully) going to become, so that one day, it will never be an issue, like when Parson James had a huge hit that put him on the map and the label told him you can do whatever you want creatively if you sign with us, but after he signed, he was told by executives to tone it down. He then said F you, I've struggled to get to this point on my journey and now you want me to go backwards? These are real people, and their lives are complex and multifaceted, not just about being gay or trans, but being gay or trans is a part of who you are, and there should be NO reason in the world why you should be ashamed of it or not allowed to express it. There is nothing wrong with being gay. There is nothing wrong about being a feminine guy (or whatever else they were being told. "Tone it down" for gay guys is always code for: don't be so flamboyant and feminine, be more straight looking.)
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donnamb
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Post by donnamb on Jun 29, 2020 23:04:59 GMT -5
It is not a question of general appeal if you get shut down from giving the genaral public a view of who you are. And letting the general public learn something knew and judge for themselves. That's as succinct as I can get.
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Post by lurleene on Jun 29, 2020 23:12:30 GMT -5
I think fans just like different looks and styles on Adam. If you don't like one look or style that someone else prefers, it somehow becomes a gay thing. He is gay no matter what look he has on. For me, the more costume looks are not my favorites. I didn't care for the spacesuit like baggy short pants for TOH. There wasn't anything gay about the look but it made me think of something Bieber would wear (right or wrong, lol) Now this era the wardrobe was so polished and sharp but by no means tame. Edgy. GMA. El Rey. NY youtube. The Talk. UK Strictly. A Home for the Holidays. Corden. Now that was a sharp dressed man every time. Was he any less gay? No he wasn't. A more mature and stylish look. YES and YES. But Adam is a whole person. And he chose these styles and looks because that was what he wanted. He said he wanted to do more authentic music and he did. He even named some artists that caught his attention. I think it was all less pop and a more mature style. I love it and i love "Velvet". It was not forced on him by the evil suits. Not sure why we can't like what we like. I love most of his Queen outfits. They are not tame either but they generally don't look like costumes. OTT sometimes but in a rockstar kind of way. Maybe we should just get out of each others head and stop trying to figure out why someone likes a look or not. Most of the time people will say what and why they like something and there is no need to put another's spin on it. No one is shy here. I think he looks lovely in makeup but don't care for it when it really heavy with a lot of glitter. Also don't care for the beard when it is too heavy. Don't care for the shaved head. Or the bright red or green or grey hair. I don't think about his sexuality when I like or dislike a particular look. And I understand Adam will wear and look the way he wants. But I get to like one look over another anyway, lol.
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Jun 29, 2020 23:24:52 GMT -5
I tweeted the radio station earlier today saying that if they expect Adam fans to come and vote on their polls then they need to play his songs more. (I saw loads of spins for Katy Perry, Dua Lipa, Justin Bieber etc. but not Adam). They tweeted back saying they would and within the last 30 minutes they spun Velvet and Superpower - both songs that deserve to be in the Top 10 Billboard charts. Anyway, it may help if more fans tweet the station and then let them know that we'd like to hear more of Adam's songs from Velvet - if we're going to be voting. Also wanted to say, I'm very grateful for all the work that goes into keeping this site going and, more important, it being a clearing house for Adam information. I joined back when the board was Planet Fierce and though many of us don't post regularly (I'm west coast and by the time I get on here the discussion is done for the day), I still come to catch up on information, for concert and appearance reviews by members and meet - up information. Good to see you Melisende.....I will always remember those glitter cocktails you served we west-coasters for our Glam Nation watch!! such fun. Hope all is well with you!
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Jun 29, 2020 23:43:16 GMT -5
I think fans just like different looks and styles on Adam. If you don't like one look or style that someone else prefers, it somehow becomes a gay thing. He is gay no matter what look he has on. For me, the more costume looks are not my favorites. I didn't care for the spacesuit like baggy short pants for TOH. There wasn't anything gay about the look but it made me think of something Bieber would wear (right or wrong, lol) Now this era the wardrobe was so polished and sharp but by no means tame. Edgy. GMA. El Rey. NY youtube. The Talk. UK Strictly. A Home for the Holidays. Corden. Now that was a sharp dressed man every time. Was he any less gay? No he wasn't. A more mature and stylish look. YES and YES. But Adam is a whole person. And he chose these styles and looks because that was what he wanted. He said he wanted to do more authentic music and he did. He even named some artists that caught his attention. I think it was all less pop and a more mature style. It was not forced on him by the evil suits. Not sure why we can't like what we like. I love most of his Queen outfits. They are not tame either but they generally don't look like costumes. OTT sometimes but in a rockstar kind of way. Maybe we should just get out of each others head and stop trying to figure out why someone likes a look or not. Most of the time people will say what and why they like something and there is no need to put another's spin on it. No one is shy here. I think he looks lovely in makeup but don't care for it when it really heavy with a lot of glitter. Also don't care for the beard when it is too heavy. Don't care for the shaved head. Or the bright red or green or grey hair. I don't think about his sexuality when I like or dislike a particular look. And I understand Adam will wear and look the way he wants. But I get to like one look over another anyway, lol. I think if there is anything we have learned about Adam...he never admits being forced or coerced into any changes or decisions....but we also know he often is. Remember that video with the Zodiac show and how he explained having to dump the idea of his 'flaming head dress'....that was funny...but if you go back and watch, it is classic Adam pretending it was just him re-thinking his choices. Back when TOH came out he also ditched almost all non-performance make up and nail polish...and claimed it was 'just too much work' or 'he was over the glitter'....but when that did not get him the commercial breakthrough that he should have had...he soon went slowly back to the makeup and def. the nailpolish. Of course he toned down and matured through the massive stuff he used during Glam Nation days, but he is back to full makeup most of the times we see him. THIS IS HIM...IT IS WHO HE IS, and his preferences should feed his decisions, I think...and not a matter of each of our very legitimate preferences... This was what I was referring to...and the fact that he talks of the poison in his blood of the 'tame it down', I believe this era...and the inevitable two labels he motored through...are what he was referencing. And NO...I do not KNOW this to be true, but my firm opinion is that I cannot think of another reason for him to drop the nail polish that he sang about and proudly displayed...only to go back to it shortly after..and still wears...always...
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Post by sizzling63 on Jun 29, 2020 23:50:13 GMT -5
Well, I see everybody's point, and I certainly don't disagree. However, I also see all perspectives from a music business point of view. I am an LGBTQ family member and we have discussions all the time about navigating the path of keeping integrity. It also applies to sectors outside the music industry. Life isn't fair but we can work toward more equality while celebrating what has been accomplished.
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Post by toramenor on Jun 29, 2020 23:51:42 GMT -5
I also just wanted to add : straight people really need to hear real stories from Lgbtq artists, which is why I think it's important that everyone watch that roundtable video, even if you have no interest whatsoever in any of the other artists on that panel. It's about hearing their experiences, opening your mind, thinking about their reality, not just your own. As a straight ally, which I'm guessing a lot of posters on this forum are it is so important that you listen, because what you have felt and experienced in your life is not the same as what lgbt people have experienced in their life. You take some things for granted, or that little thing doesn't even enter the equation, because you haven't had to go through homophobia and transphobia, where that little thing is maybe a huge deal for an lgbtq person. Something easily overlooked is how ingrained some of these homophobic things are. Mary Lambert talked a bit about how horribke it is for kids to only see themselves portrayed in negative narratives. Like, if you only see gay relationships on tv/film where the characters are victims of hate crime, bullied, or die - you internalize that stuff and you associate being gay with not being able to fall in love and be happy. Somebody else on the panel said he only came out when he was 30, because he struggled with not believing he had a future. It is soo soo super important to understand why representation matters: in all kinds of media, music included, because kids should see the joy of being gay too, not just the suffering.
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Post by lurleene on Jun 30, 2020 0:02:00 GMT -5
I think fans just like different looks and styles on Adam. If you don't like one look or style that someone else prefers, it somehow becomes a gay thing. He is gay no matter what look he has on. For me, the more costume looks are not my favorites. I didn't care for the spacesuit like baggy short pants for TOH. There wasn't anything gay about the look but it made me think of something Bieber would wear (right or wrong, lol) Now this era the wardrobe was so polished and sharp but by no means tame. Edgy. GMA. El Rey. NY youtube. The Talk. UK Strictly. A Home for the Holidays. Corden. Now that was a sharp dressed man every time. Was he any less gay? No he wasn't. A more mature and stylish look. YES and YES. But Adam is a whole person. And he chose these styles and looks because that was what he wanted. He said he wanted to do more authentic music and he did. He even named some artists that caught his attention. I think it was all less pop and a more mature style. It was not forced on him by the evil suits. Not sure why we can't like what we like. I love most of his Queen outfits. They are not tame either but they generally don't look like costumes. OTT sometimes but in a rockstar kind of way. Maybe we should just get out of each others head and stop trying to figure out why someone likes a look or not. Most of the time people will say what and why they like something and there is no need to put another's spin on it. No one is shy here. I think he looks lovely in makeup but don't care for it when it really heavy with a lot of glitter. Also don't care for the beard when it is too heavy. Don't care for the shaved head. Or the bright red or green or grey hair. I don't think about his sexuality when I like or dislike a particular look. And I understand Adam will wear and look the way he wants. But I get to like one look over another anyway, lol. I think if there is anything we have learned about Adam...he never admits being forced or coerced into any changes or decisions....but we also know he often is. Remember that video with the Zodiac show and how he explained having to dump the idea of his 'flaming head dress'....that was funny...but if you go back and watch, it is classic Adam pretending it was just him re-thinking his choices. Back when TOH came out he also ditched almost all non-performance make up and nail polish...and claimed it was 'just too much work' or 'he was over the glitter'....but when that did not get him the commercial breakthrough that he should have had...he soon went slowly back to the makeup and def. the nailpolish. Of course he toned down and matured through the massive stuff he used during Glam Nation days, but he is back to full makeup most of the times we see him. THIS IS HIM...IT IS WHO HE IS, and his preferences should feed his decisions, I think...and not a matter of each of our very legitimate preferences... This was what I was referring to...and the fact that he talks of the poison in his blood of the 'tame it down', I believe this era...and the inevitable two labels he motored through...are what he was referencing. And NO...I do not KNOW this to be true, but my firm opinion is that I cannot think of another reason for him to drop the nail polish that he sang about and proudly displayed...only to go back to it shortly after..and still wears...always... I wasn't talking so much about the past as I never really paid much attention to nail polish or not. I was simply saying I like the more mature and polished style he has had for Velvet. He is indie now so I'm sure these choices and his. I like it. No doubt there were problems and compromises from the past, I was simply saying I love the more mature and sexy style in music and outfits he has had for this era. We all will like one style over another and that is okay. But Adam will always get to decide who he is. Not me. Not my call to tell him who he really is. Not for anyone else either really. So no argument about that or anything actually. If he wants to change or adjust his style he has the same right as any other artist.
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Post by toramenor on Jun 30, 2020 0:15:57 GMT -5
I think fans just like different looks and styles on Adam. If you don't like one look or style that someone else prefers, it somehow becomes a gay thing. He is gay no matter what look he has on. For me, the more costume looks are not my favorites. I didn't care for the spacesuit like baggy short pants for TOH. There wasn't anything gay about the look but it made me think of something Bieber would wear (right or wrong, lol) Now this era the wardrobe was so polished and sharp but by no means tame. Edgy. GMA. El Rey. NY youtube. The Talk. UK Strictly. A Home for the Holidays. Corden. Now that was a sharp dressed man every time. Was he any less gay? No he wasn't. A more mature and stylish look. YES and YES. But Adam is a whole person. And he chose these styles and looks because that was what he wanted. He said he wanted to do more authentic music and he did. He even named some artists that caught his attention. I think it was all less pop and a more mature style. It was not forced on him by the evil suits. Not sure why we can't like what we like. I love most of his Queen outfits. They are not tame either but they generally don't look like costumes. OTT sometimes but in a rockstar kind of way. Maybe we should just get out of each others head and stop trying to figure out why someone likes a look or not. Most of the time people will say what and why they like something and there is no need to put another's spin on it. No one is shy here. I think he looks lovely in makeup but don't care for it when it really heavy with a lot of glitter. Also don't care for the beard when it is too heavy. Don't care for the shaved head. Or the bright red or green or grey hair. I don't think about his sexuality when I like or dislike a particular look. And I understand Adam will wear and look the way he wants. But I get to like one look over another anyway, lol. I think if there is anything we have learned about Adam...he never admits being forced or coerced into any changes or decisions....but we also know he often is. Remember that video with the Zodiac show and how he explained having to dump the idea of his 'flaming head dress'....that was funny...but if you go back and watch, it is classic Adam pretending it was just him re-thinking his choices. Back when TOH came out he also ditched almost all non-performance make up and nail polish...and claimed it was 'just too much work' or 'he was over the glitter'....but when that did not get him the commercial breakthrough that he should have had...he soon went slowly back to the makeup and def. the nailpolish. Of course he toned down and matured through the massive stuff he used during Glam Nation days, but he is back to full makeup most of the times we see him. THIS IS HIM...IT IS WHO HE IS, and his preferences should feed his decisions, I think...and not a matter of each of our very legitimate preferences... This was what I was referring to...and the fact that he talks of the poison in his blood of the 'tame it down', I believe this era...and the inevitable two labels he motored through...are what he was referencing. And NO...I do not KNOW this to be true, but my firm opinion is that I cannot think of another reason for him to drop the nail polish that he sang about and proudly displayed...only to go back to it shortly after..and still wears...always... I agree, I believe Velvet Adam is the real Adam today, just as For Your Entertainment Adam was maybe a heightened version of the real Adam as well. During GNT he was trying to really push it all the way, and let's not forget that he came out of the club scene, which is pretty much that: being a heightened version of yourself and pushing boundaries. With Trespassing and The Original High he toned it down (more or less, I guess depending on how much he was willing to tone it down; sometimes he may have enjoyed experimenting, and also, people are never just 1 thing, I believe Trespassing and TOH versions of Adam are parts of him too, but they are not ALL of him, certainly), and now we are seeing Adam back to being himself, minus all those extra layers of glitter which he had added during GNT and minus executives suggesting do this, or do that, which he probably had to deal with constantly when he was on those labels. He is independent. He is the executive producer now: he gets to call all the shots. Which - good for him!! I'm really glad he is in that place right now. Do I wish he didn't have to do that? Yes! I wish those label executives had the courage to just let Adam be Adam, however he wanted to be, and trust that he would find and build his audience on the strength of his talent and personality. But they weren't courageous, they put obstacles in his way, they didn't support him and promote him 100% - and that's why he left. Again, good for him. But Adam did have that side hustle with Queen, which allowed him some breathing room. Other LGBTQ artists are not so fortunate. If they want to be themselves, or if the label decides to drop them because they are "too much" it may be extremely difficult to break through, to become successful. Still, things have changed a lot since 2009, and hopefully they will continue to change, because there is still a long way to go.
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