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Post by gelly14 on Nov 29, 2011 14:57:10 GMT -5
aralid: I appreciate you being willing to come out and discuss your perspective on downloading. It was risky, as many of the members here are of an age that they did not grow up in the age of free digital downloads, and now can afford to buy any music they want. Heck, they are talking about flying a thousand miles to another country to see an Adam concert. That must seem like total fantasy to a poor college student. Your posts remind us that the issue is not black and white, and there are many different perspectives. I happen to believe that people should buy the music they listen to. Having said that, I remember being young and broke and making copies of albums on cassette tapes. Lots of them during my college years. I remember checking tapes out of the library and making copies for myself and my family members. Yup, my economics clashed with my ethics, and the economics won. So, no judgment here. The artists, producers and recording companies are going to have to figure out how to make a profit in this digital download era. Perspectives like yours may clash with the beliefs of some of us, but, these perspectives are common and increasing. We need to hear them, to understand them, and figure out how to create an environment where artists are paid for their work. Again, thanks for sharing. Perfect cassie ! Just perfect! My thoughts exactly, thank you! |
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Post by justkaren on Nov 29, 2011 15:02:43 GMT -5
 or if you listen to a album with your friend or borrows it from him/her, who owns it. Or borrow a book from a friend not necessarily a library. In the end downloading is the same. It is just through a new media: the internet. Not everything is black and white. I believe sharing does not necessarily harm artists. Through it their music can reach a wider audience, which are potencial buyers of the album or the next one. Their are many new artists who only are famous because they shared their music for free, the ones liked it recommended it to friends and so on. I know we are talking about music, that is not free, but it shows sharing is not always bad. I don't see it as the same at all. Libraries are paid for with taxes to make sure that books are available to all. But the availability of the books is limited ... authors only make a certain number of copies available to libraries, and you often have to "wait in line" to borrow popular items. Even digital media at the library, which technically could have an infinite number of copies, is limited ... only a certain number of copies can be "out" at once, and you have to get in line for your turn to download. When the borrowing period is up you are required to return the item (or it "disappears" from the laptop or whatever you downloaded it to). When you borrow from a friend you only have limited access, during the "borrowing" period. In any of these instances, you are expected to buy the product if you want to keep it permanently. I'm not saying that this is always going to be the case, and maybe there are better ways to do it, but until the system changes, I don't intend to steal from Adam, or any other musician ... I want Adam to have all the dimmers his heart desires. Just think about it ... what if everyone thought it was OK to take without paying ... |
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mahailia
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Post by mahailia on Nov 29, 2011 15:07:43 GMT -5
Just saw a short clip of Adam talking about JingleBall, on Fuse - Top 20 Video Countdown featuring this year's JingleBall Z100 in Madison Square Gardens.
Will tape and see if any of Adam's MV's are played.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2011 15:09:44 GMT -5
cassie, midwifespal seashell nonotme perfect posts. One reason I don't post often is everyone on this site can put MY thoughts into words with so much better clarity!  |
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nonotme
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Post by nonotme on Nov 29, 2011 15:12:33 GMT -5
yes. But the person who uploaded to the site/YT might've paid...- of course we don't know that for sure.... (not arguing, but playing devils advocate) Point, but it is not a formal arraignment where we know it is paid. I think the crux is that if some one is not ethical like you are, the music goes round and round and the beginning is forgotten and so... they have the music why pay? My son and I discussed this the other day because he was upset that one of his friends had downloaded one of his favorite bands with the argument that they, the band, had enough money! As a Libra I can discuss both sides because he would not have been upset if they had borrowed his cd and they had copied it! Someone thinking that a band had "enough" money caught my eye. Your son's friend may have been referring to a truly big-time, successful band, not that I think it is then OK to download the music for free - I'm just trying to discuss perceptions about levels of financial success. Often people think an artist or band has "made it big" if they are even semi-well known. I think people don't really know how few artists make big bucks. Some old stats: 2010 Album Sales (US sales only) Of 98,000 new records that sold at least 1 copy US album sales 17% sold more than 100 - 16,660 5.5% sold more than 1000 - 5390 1.24% sold more than 10,000 - 1215 0.085% sold more than 250,000 - 83 only approximately 85 artists made more than $250,000 on US album sales If you look in that 1.24% there are many, many artists that never sell anywhere near 100,000 copies of an album, but they are in the top 1%! They tour, but their taxable income after deducting travel expenses (and they don't stay in luxury hotels), but including royalties from album or single sales, is similar to having a job in retail or being a beginning teacher. Not the "made it big" that many assume. Sorry for rant. I'll stop now. peace&love |
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Post by gelly14 on Nov 29, 2011 15:13:50 GMT -5
midwifespal
Love love love your post!! Complexed and yet so understandable! :D
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Post by stardust on Nov 29, 2011 15:14:04 GMT -5
re: illegal downloading Putting the moral question aside for a moment, I just wanted to say that Aralid, I am most impressed by your directness and honesty here, which seems to me, in the moment, to outweigh any other considerations! I really appreciate your posting your point of view and your gutsiness in expressing it. Personally, while I don't feel all that strongly about it, I don't download music illegally that is legally available for purchase elsewhere (no not even BFM  ). My tumble into this Adam fandom has reinforced this policy--I want to actively support him, and feel I owe other artists the same even if I care less about their success. But then, I can easily afford to do so, which I agree puts me in a very different position from those who can't, and I do think social norms are relevant here--if a whole section of society (mostly younger people) have grown accustomed to downloading in this way, the new norm may shift the moral weight of the act in some way. And then, of course, if I'm honest about it, I've done the equivalent to illegal downloading without a second thought many many times in my life. If a friend gives me a "mix-tape," or burns me a CD of some music he or she likes, both of which have happened many times, I don't, of course, then go out and buy each of those songs again on i-tunes. I don't even consider doing it, and don't give a second thought to the legal status of the "shared" music. This is partly what I mean by moral norms--mix-tapes are an excepted form of music sharing in a way that I suspect illicit downloading is for a whole generation of less-rule-bound, less wealthy music listeners. (Nonotme's interesting info applies here as well.) None of which is really intended to argue for one side or another in this debate--I just think that it's good to be completely honest about the ways in which we all participate in one way or another in the sharing culture. For that matter, a large percentage of the music we enjoy on youtube is equally "illegal," in that it is a violation of copyright laws intended to protect the intellectual property and economic interest of artists. Do I really stand on so much higher ground simply because, instead of illegally downloading a song, I regularly listen to it on youtube? I don't think so. Similarly, when those of us who do not, for example, have cable, watch a show live-streamed on ustream, or via a later youtube, we are "stealing" what we could have legally purchased with a cable package. We all do things like this all the time without a moment's guilt. It's helpful to remember this when evaluating the actions of others. That all having been said, I certainly hope as many people as can buy Trespassing do buy Trespassing, and think the gifting thread is an excellent idea. Totally different topic: I'm cringing horribly for poor Adam at all this marriage talk in the media. I for one didn't interpret his comments to RS so literally at all. He said as recently as the EQ awards that he thinks he's "too young" to be thinking about marriage in any concrete way. I just assumed he meant that now that he's more mature, and in a serious relationship, and marriage is something he could easily imagine himself wanting in the future (unlike when he was younger and couldn't imagine it), he can't legally do it. Geez, it's just been a year! Hubby and I were together for 13 years before we finally tied the knot ;D! I hope Adam can just shrug off all the silly hyperventilating by press and to some extent fans, too (certainly not thinking of anyone in particular here). I'm confident he can. More than anything, of course, I hope that when it comes time that Adam really does actively plan to get married, this retrograde-ass country will have grown up a little and will let him!! Many excellent thoughts in this post. It is a very difficult question that I think will not be easily resolved. The music and TV industries need to find new ways to profit. Authors and musicians need to be supported but this problem will not go away! One needs a fierce fan base that will actually buy their stuff. |
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aralid
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Post by aralid on Nov 29, 2011 15:17:02 GMT -5
cassie, mwp: Half a year ago I couldn't have been that honest. I wouldn't have posted it. But through Adam I learned, that there might be people who do not understand you or like you for being who are or things you say or do, but their will be others, too, who will understand you and love you for being who you are. I'm still learning not too think too much about what others will think about me and I try to just being me. It has been a problem for me. Often I ended saying nothing. But I obviously improve, what makes me love Adam even more 
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Post by LindaG23 on Nov 29, 2011 15:18:35 GMT -5
www.sundancechannel.com/sunfiltered/2011/11/glambert/Joe Zee gives Adam Lambert a style upgrade November 28, 2011 Joe Zee is back and on this season of ALL ON THE LINE WITH JOE ZEE he’s not only helping struggling designers. He’s also helping celebs looking for a style upgrade. American Idol alum, and bonafide pop superstar, Adam Lambert knew it was time to bring his wardrobe from trashy-tacky to fashion forward. more... I don't know how they got from Adam saying, "campy/theatrical ... maybe even a little tacky on purpose" to trashy-tacky but I think they missed the point. Also, I will be interested to see that jacket designed for him on the big screen because right now I am not a big fan of the black satin under the arm situation. We'll see. |
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nonotme
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Post by nonotme on Nov 29, 2011 15:23:18 GMT -5
Aralid, thanks for your honesty and your perspective. No judgment. There are many confusing aspects to the discussion of free downloading.
peace&love
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). My tumble into this Adam fandom has reinforced this policy--I want to actively support him, and feel I owe other artists the same even if I care less about their success. But then, I can easily afford to do so, which I agree puts me in a very different position from those who can't, and I do think social norms are relevant here--if a whole section of society (mostly younger people) have grown accustomed to downloading in this way, the new norm may shift the moral weight of the act in some way. 
