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Post by sizzling63 on Feb 20, 2022 4:41:06 GMT -5
Oh yuk! Sometimes it seems to me that many of the young effeminate gay men Adam encounters (and even knows well), want to appear as mindless, undignified and as tasteless as they possibly can.
oh a Camera…I’m super gay…must get my genitals and tongue out…and spank my behind gurrl! I know a number of dignified, proud gay people who would be very unhappy to be viewed in the same way as this group. I know I’m generalising but I am talking about a general perception. Of course I mean ‘some’ not all, by any means, Adam advocates for the inclusion of this group in a divided gay community but I can see why some must make it a hard sell.
I see where you are coming from and I can't say that I haven't had similar reactions. However, I have come to the conclusion that I as a straight female am only a bystander and ally and that it should be okay to not connect with or relate to everything. I think what appears as mindless, undignified, and tasteless to some may be liberating and affirming to others, and I have a pretty good idea where Adam stands when it comes to his community, especially after checking out his recent IG post (relating to Tom of Finland). I didn't care for it, but some thought it was "hot stuff". Adam's "Starstruck" entrance was the "highlight" of the day in the fandom for me, though I do realize that quite some time has passed since that taping.
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SophieB
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Post by SophieB on Feb 20, 2022 5:41:27 GMT -5
Thank you sizzling63…..intellectually I know you are absolutely right, I have so often pulled myself back by saying that I am only an observer with a different experience of living this life. I have tried to embrace without judgement. I feel I have largely done this, have had my mind opened and I have enjoyed learning so much from Adam and his reality. But in my heart I can’t help but feel sad and disappointed that such behaviours might be felt necessary for affirmation and liberation. Whatever understanding I lack, I think everyone deserves self-respect and respect from others without having to demean themselves to show how happy they are in their skins and how free from the opinions of others they are. Isn’t there an obvious irony there? Dignity will always make its point so much better.
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Post by girldrummer on Feb 20, 2022 10:35:26 GMT -5
SophieB, I do get where you're coming from. Butif Adam didn't do what he is doing with taking photos with gay fans, etc. he would be deemed a hypocrite. He has always supported inclusion for all, giving everyone their due, regardless of their sexuality. His main social group is the gay community. He is comfortable and knows the ropes. Taking pics with fans of all kinds is the least he can do. IMO.
I know I'm late with this reply, so you likely won't see it, but just wanted to throw in my thoughts.
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SophieB
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Post by SophieB on Feb 20, 2022 11:42:01 GMT -5
Hi girldrummer I agree with your comments on Adam and taking pics with fans - he would and should do it. But that wasn’t my point at all. I wondered why so many young gay men feel the need to behave in a way which to me is unworthy of them. it seems to be a victory where they lose more than they win and will probably continue to marginalise them. (IMHO)
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Post by lurleene on Feb 20, 2022 12:40:13 GMT -5
Hi girldrummer I agree with your comments on Adam and taking pics with fans - he would and should do it. But that wasn’t my point at all. I wondered why so many young gay men feel the need to behave in a way which to me is unworthy of them. it seems to be a victory where they lose more than they win and will probably continue to marginalise them. (IMHO) Agree. Even when some comedians (thankfully they have shied away from it in recent years) would make fun of gay men with OTT stereotypes and exaggerated mannerisms, I would immediately turn the channel. It seemed more insulting than funny.
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Post by girldrummer on Feb 20, 2022 14:05:42 GMT -5
Hi girldrummer I agree with your comments on Adam and taking pics with fans - he would and should do it. But that wasn’t my point at all. I wondered why so many young gay men feel the need to behave in a way which to me is unworthy of them. it seems to be a victory where they lose more than they win and will probably continue to marginalise them. (IMHO) I guess i did misinterpret your comment. Sorry about that. I agree that there seems to be a need for some gay guys to be "over the top" when the situation doesn't really call for it. Maybe it's just a part of the subculture they are often a part of, having an identity that is accepted in that particular group but not so much outside of it. Maybe it's an outlet. I don't know. Adam is somewhat of a chameleon. He can change his demeanor when the circumstances call for it. I think it's a skill that lots of gay people find necessary when they're outside their group. There's a certain freedom to being within your own group. I like your question, though. I think it's an important one. Thanks for replying.
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Post by girldrummer on Feb 20, 2022 14:10:32 GMT -5
And lurleene, I agree with you about the past eras when grossly exaggerated gay mannerisms were oh so funny. Adam has even talked about gay people being used for comic relief. Thankfully, that sort of thing is rare now.
There was a time when drunken-ness was portrayed as very comic. A person tripping and falling and slurring their words was just HILARIOUS. But not so much anymore. The tragedy of alcoholism is just that. A tragedy. Nothing to laugh at. It's good that some things are gone.
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Post by cleopatra on Feb 20, 2022 16:09:11 GMT -5
Hi girldrummer I agree with your comments on Adam and taking pics with fans - he would and should do it. But that wasn’t my point at all. I wondered why so many young gay men feel the need to behave in a way which to me is unworthy of them. it seems to be a victory where they lose more than they win and will probably continue to marginalise them. (IMHO) This is another late response that you may or may not see, but what you said was interesting and I needed to think about it for a while. I may be totally off base, but it would not surprise me if Adam's personal sensibilities, when in a safe environment with his "tribe," are more like these flamboyant young gay men than the more dignified gay people to whom you referred. He knows enough not to act like that in every situation, obviously, but the Adam we see is just one facet of him. I remember him saying the version of himself we saw on Idol was not fake, but it was him putting his best - presumably "most digestible to the general public" - face forward. But I bet he sees a lot of himself in these young men, especially the person he was when he was their age. This is the guy who performed in Australia with a big codpiece and leather harness, because it was an event for his community, and he felt he could. He wouldn't do it when promoting his music on a television show, but when he could - he did. He didn't bat an eye about dressing in drag. To this day, he thinks nothing of caking on heavy makeup for performances. A lot of these photos are being taken in gay clubs. We don't see how these young man behave in different environments, but I'm assuming it is not the same way they behave in a club. They may be "effeminate," but they're probably not grabbing their crotches or sticking out their tongues at work, or out shopping, or visiting Grandma (although I guess it depends on the Grandma!). There's a lot of code-switching in the gay community, just as there is in the Black community. Adam is gifted at it. But we don't necessarily see what's "Underneath."
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Post by girldrummer on Feb 20, 2022 17:02:37 GMT -5
cleopatra, I love your post and I agree completely. My guess is that these young men adjust their behavior to their specific environments, just as we all do. Your examples were really good. Adam knows exactly how to deal with the situation at hand. Your Australia example was perfect. Hi codpiece was just fine. LOL
Thanks to you, lurleene and SophieB for joining in on my late contribution. I kind of wish it had been on today's thread. I learn something here every day.
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Post by sizzling63 on Feb 20, 2022 17:35:25 GMT -5
Thank you sizzling63 …..intellectually I know you are absolutely right, I have so often pulled myself back by saying that I am only an observer with a different experience of living this life. I have tried to embrace without judgement. I feel I have largely done this, have had my mind opened and I have enjoyed learning so much from Adam and his reality. But in my heart I can’t help but feel sad and disappointed that such behaviours might be felt necessary for affirmation and liberation. Whatever understanding I lack, I think everyone deserves self-respect and respect from others without having to demean themselves to show how happy they are in their skins and how free from the opinions of others they are. Isn’t there an obvious irony there?
Dignity will always make its point so much better. SophieB, I definitely see the irony, and that's why I am often tempted to judge, but then again I have to remind myself that I am born in a very different skin.. I don't think that you (or I) lack understanding, but there seems to be a discrepancy between "getting it" and still having a different emotional response. I have gone through this thought process with every pride event in SF, especially during the festivities at the City Plaza after the parade. At some point we just leave and tell ourselves that we don't belong there. I have to say that I have a gay son who is out and proud, yet I have not had an issue with him at all in terms of how he presents himself on social media and with friends. I just looked up the definition of "dignity" as I thought about this a lot: "the state or quality of being worthy of honor or respect." ("a man of dignity and unbending principle") "a sense of pride in oneself; self-respect" ("it was beneath his dignity to shout") Again, I think it depends from which angle you look at it I can tell that I often look at pride and dignity from a very different perspective than Adam himself, probably out of overprotectiveness.
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