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Post by midwifespal on Jun 9, 2012 17:58:23 GMT -5
Aww, Lynne,
I literally just now got off a long phone call with my mom in which she was trying to convince me that my ongoing failure to have any kind of success in my most personally important (and frustratingly unmarketable) writing in no way suggests that I will continue to fail along these lines. And being the ungrateful twerp that I am, embittered by a recent string of rejections, I got increasingly agitated, and yelled at her (I blush to admit) about her "lack of realism about my chances for success at this sort of thing." So now I feel duly guilty... let me borrow some of your hopes and optimism, and some of hers. Moms rule.
(And by the way, the one son of yours that I know about seems to be doing pretty darn well in an exceedingly tough field, so great on him!)
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mika
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Post by mika on Jun 9, 2012 19:14:05 GMT -5
From the iPad so plz to forgive mwp lovely to see you. Stop by anytime. Most folks here spend majority of their time topside but this is a nice room for whatever you need. As you can see we're not really bad just a little rogue and welcome anyone who wants to drop in for whatever reason. Re the writing, I know it can get one down but hang in there kiddo! I used to beta for someone who was about to give up- she's got two successful fiction series now. I know you want to yell at me as I'm sure I sound like your Mom but keep making good art please? The world needs it. (and yes we're wordy as hell down here - words and tea and possibly insouciance ) Junie I'll respond more to your thought provoking post later ( out and about now) but I suppose I wonder at times if, when he arrives, the castle won't be a disappointment, or will perhaps just no longer be the prize Adam is seeking? Now he is focused on finding sure footing and gathering maps, and resources for the long, tough trek -smart man - but as his world expands and he meets more and more extraordinary true artists - i hope and expect his dreams will shift & expand as well. Going to some of the things Lynne was saying - the journey or quest often changes or shapes the hero so that the grail itself changes - or somewhere along the way he (or she) suddenly begins to wonder if the accumulating changes or compromises or sacrifices are worth the thing that glittered so brightly once? The journey remains the greatest achievement but we are wise to not let determination prevent us from pausing to consider our destination from time to time. I'll stop (yes blessedly) but though it's not exactly on point this reminds me of cavafy's beautiful poem 'Ithaca'. www.cavafy.com/poems/content.asp?id=74&cat=1
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 10, 2012 0:13:21 GMT -5
mika, if you are going to quote Prufrock and link Ithaca (thank you ... It had been too long since I'd read it and is timely again now as I wrestle with some inner Laistrygonians and try to raise my gaze high enough to see the stars) ... you give me no choice but to summon Rumi. I think he speaks to Juniemoon's post, too. Oh, and mwp I thought YOU were the cool kid ... Love your writing!
“A Thirsty Fish
I don't get tired of you. Don't grow weary of being compassionate toward me!
All this thirst equipment must surely be tired of me, the waterjar, the water carrier.
I have a thirsty fish in me that can never find enough of what it's thirsty for!
Show me the way to the ocean! Break these half-measures, these small containers.
All this fantasy and grief.
Let my house be drowned in the wave that rose last night in the courtyard hidden in the center of my chest.
Joseph fell like the moon into my well. The harvest I expected was washed away. But no matter.
A fire has risen above my tombstone hat. I don't want learning, or dignity, or respectability.
I want this music and this dawn and the warmth of your cheek against mine.
The grief-armies assemble, but I'm not going with them.
This is how it always is when I finish a poem.
A great silence comes over me, and I wonder why I ever thought to use language.”
(and often, afterr my always too many words, I wonder the same!)
juniemoon, did you make that photo collage on the last page? i''ve been meaningn to say how much I enjoyed floating in it.
lynne, again, lovely.
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mika
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Post by mika on Jun 10, 2012 0:44:46 GMT -5
I want this music and this dawn and the warmth of your cheek against mine. The grief-armies assemble, but I'm not going with them. Oooh, mirages, this Rumi poem is so incredibly beautiful! I must leap on it otter-like, clasp it like rare abalone, and scamper away. I will leave you my thanks - and a fish~ (I built a koi pond in your honor)
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lynne
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Post by lynne on Jun 10, 2012 1:26:17 GMT -5
MWP, you know you are definitely one of the cool kids. Moms are great. Mine is still with me; she is eighty-five, and even after all of these years, she continues to believe in the talents of her children and grandchildren and make that belief felt by all of them. I have been impressed by your writing even in your posting, so I will echo Mika and say keep going! Clearly, you can wriiiite like Adam can siiing. Mika and mirages- beautiful, thought-provoking posts. Thank you.
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Post by midwifespal on Jun 10, 2012 10:55:58 GMT -5
Mika, Lynne, mirages, all of you...you're all loves, thank you for the pep-talks, I'm shoving the old chin up as best I can. Not the best news, professionally, at the mo, but as Adam would remind me, it gets better, and it's up to me. I dunno about "cool", but as the youngest of five (funny how, now matter what ones age, one always remain the youngest of five) I can certainly embrace the "kid" part. ;D And since peeps are sharing lovely poems, I'll add one of my favorite poets, the British Edward Thomas, friend of Frost, who died in the trenches in WWI. This thread makes me think of him...long before the war cast a shadow over everyone, he was forever defending his gloom as something else, as a natural mood with simply a slightly different rhythm, as in here: Aspens
All day and night, save winter, every weather, Above the inn, the smithy and the shop, The aspens at the cross-roads talk together Of rain, until their last leaves fall from the top.
Out of the blacksmith's cavern comes the ringing Of hammer, shoe and anvil; out of the inn The clink, the hum, the roar, the random singing - The sounds that for these fifty years have been.
The whisper of the aspens is not drowned, And over lightless pane and footless road, Empty as sky, with every other sound No ceasing, calls their ghosts from their abode,
A silent smithy, a silent inn, nor fails In the bare moonlight or the thick-furred gloom, In the tempest or the night of nightingales, To turn the cross-roads to a ghostly room.
And it would be the same were no house near. Over all sorts of weather, men, and times, Aspens must shake their leaves and men may hear But need not listen, more than to my rhymes.
Whatever wind blows, while they and I have leaves We cannot other than an aspen be That ceaselessly, unreasonably grieves, Or so men think who like a different tree. I like the turn in perspective of the final line, the gentle rebuttal. Maybe this is more an aspen kind of a thread. ETA: just decorating...a visual to go with our rustley conversations:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 15:07:30 GMT -5
mwp -- and mika for that matter -- I looked at your profiles. You are just babies! LOL. I didn't even start to get a clue until I was 40. Still not sure I have one. mirages, I didn't make the underwater dancing collage. My skills are much more rudimentary. I want to soak in all the poems. I can offer something today, though. I was reading in National Geographic about a new discovery, a cave of Mayan inscriptions and art. It appears to be "scratch paper" for an enormous 7000 year calendar. The good news is that the world isn't going to end. I wasn't worried, but in case any of you were, OK to buy expensive shoes or new tires ... you'll get a chance to use them. What really struck me, though, was how much the cave reminded me of the "numbers" -- spins and sales and charts and the like. It speaks of an undercurrent of anxiety and a wish to tie the king's life into the larger cosmic cycle -- to know that the king was going to be OK. "The Maya were looking for a guarantee that nothing would change. We keep looking for endings."
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Post by mszue on Jun 11, 2012 11:12:58 GMT -5
Somehow when I decided to post, I had to 're-log in' and then ended up at a different Dark place... made me angry at the subterfuge required to find this place all over again...grrrrrrr.... ok...dropping that now...clearly not going to change. WARNING..long rambling stream of consciousness here so scroll if you wish.... Anyway... apologies for being so recently 'late to the party' but my life has been consumed by moving and trying to settle in. I still have a room of boxes but there is less desperation to the un-boxing now as the major necessities of life have been identified and re-homed I have been reading and trying to catch up and had to comment on the posts a page or two back on introversion/extroversion and the perceived stigma of introversion. I agree that probably, for the most part, our world seems to be run by extroverts, BUT, did you notice all my hedges there? I am not really convinced that is so.....that is why the BIG GUY [and yes, still is generally a guy] hires PR people....they are the extrovert. But that is not my real point. Not all extroverts are the 'popular' people....Adam is proof of that....he is an extrovert but he was not of the popular set. I have always been a talker and that GREW into extroversion though not sure you would classify that way when I was in high school. Then it was just the dumb newcomer that always had the answer and did not seem to know when to shut up. Classmates audibly groan when they see your hand go up....and it feels almost impossible to keep your hand in your lap when a question is asked and nobody else is answering it.... My point is, again, that it is just as hard to try and OVERCOME natural extroversion as it is to overcome introversion....and there is just as much stigma to the talker as the silent. At least when you keep your mouth shout, you can't say anything stupid! Some of us need to talk ideas out....we like to come to the table incomplete...the completion comes about in the communication. I loved MA classes as for the most part, this is where the classes are small enough that everyone gets their chance to contribute but big enough that your contributions are just one among many. A lot of inquiry goes on at this stage. By the time you get into the PhD classroom, all commentary is expected to be diss-ready and there is much less actual open inquiry...everyone has developed their own corner of the room and POV and it becomes more of a parry and thrust action than genuine quest for understanding. The quest at this level is an internal one and very much more in the format preferred by the introvert. again...I am talking here for ideas and input...not to be "right"....sometimes inquiring rambling comes off as pontificating and that is not the point at all. I am taking advantage of the 'dark' side to go a little OTT. To bring it back to Adam...it is often commented on that Adam has no filters and he has said that himself but I do not believe that for a minute. There is far more need for developed filters for an extrovert than a natural introvert....he would not have the social skills he has without highly sensitive filters. He is honest....that is a different thing all together...and open. But he usually figures out when the filters have to go on....we see that more and more in his relationship with Sauli....we really know very very little...only what he wants us to know. Mika...you surprised me when you commented on Adam as a 'snarky' boy and I actually don't agree there. He can join in the snark if that is the preferred communication mode at the time but I would hate to think he is naturally snarky.... to me... that is Neil's preserve... maybe that is my preferences showing through as I really dislike protracted sessions of snark. It is almost always at someone else's expense and it is not generally kind. It is often passive-agressive in nature...so that the claim can be made that the victim just 'didn't get it' ... it is usually witty but not necessarily intelligent... Feel free to defend snark...not trying to be 'superior' to it...just saying that when conversations go in that direction, it usually forces me into silence which is not a natural state for me. Perhaps that is why I don't like it. When I have found myself joining in, I usually suffer uncomfortable guilt afterwards so it just isn't worth it. Cheeks is snark personified...I can laugh at his youtube vignettes but doubt i would ever trust him enough to be a friend of his...though that may be/seem really unfair. ETA Whe I say I would not trust Cheeks...it is not that I would not trust him to keep a confidence...that is clearly not true...but, I would not trust him not to make fun of me in public if there were the opportunity for him to get a laugh...
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Post by bullsfan on Jun 11, 2012 13:01:31 GMT -5
OMG, this place actually exists! Hope I can find my way back. Rather than the "dark side," I would call it the "Underneath" thread---because we can talk honestly about what's going on and not have to put on some kind of "game face." Anyway, this place is pretty cool. I may need it by the end of the week
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mika
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Post by mika on Jun 11, 2012 15:20:25 GMT -5
I'm going to leave the introvert/extrovert thing alone and maybe Junie will feel like picking it up but I think there are a few concepts crossing the stream there. Based on what I've read, when one gets beyond the energy source definition, things get more uncertain and difficult to define. Snarky may mean something different to me. I think my main point was that I have little time for those who seek to 'airbrush' out Adam's human elements to transform him into a Hallmark card or human version of The Secret. Adam certainly isn't made of snark and he clearly doesn't follow Neil's deliberate persona of curmudgeon, but he's very handy with a verbal quip. (BTW - when this thread first started, I tried to find the Neil vs Cheeks 'Why So Dark, Neil' b/c it made me laugh at the time.) Based on very little evidence, I would hazard a guess that Adam is better at snark than Neil - Neil tends to lean heavily on blunt sarcasm and outrage - whereas, when he chooses to deploy, Adam tends to be more subtle and effective. (Do we really think Adam meant Gene Simmons was great when he said all wide-eyed, "Did you hear him sing?" Adam could have just said Gene was entitled to his opinion but I prefer his added flavor~ ) For me, good snark comes in more measured and clever doses than blunt sarcasm. And I am one who has grown very tired of knee jerk hipster irony and vocal fry merely for affect, but I still like to see absurdity, human silliness or stupidity sent up. Like wit, it can be kind or unkind-used for good or ill, but at its best punctures hypocrisy or simply slants a enlightening, humorous angle at something worthy of a side-eye. Some of the kindest, most honest people I know came to my attn through a well aimed, clever moment of snark. They cheer me up, lift my spirits in a way that affirmations and 'let's just focus on the good things' alone never could. In the Sam Sparro interview posted a few days ago, both the interviewer and Sam stressed Adam's humor which they described as dry, quick, and a little dark- while Sam indicated he had a dark sense of humor as well and mentioned their shared interest in gossip. (Or personal speculation as I like to call it.) I also think-as I mentioned -that I believe Adam is an actively kind, big-hearted, accepting person - much more so than people who (as my Mom would say) 'butter wouldn't melt in their mouths'. Regarding impact on others - you can use a bit of snark to reach out to someone in kindness or to relieve tension; you can also be unkind to people under the guise of being 'positive' and 'helpful'. Words are powerful and can be turned and twisted in many ways. Not something I feel strongly about, but there you go.
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