|
|
Post by butterknife on Dec 16, 2012 17:00:35 GMT -5
Wow, CassieThank you again for your wonderful explanation. And holst your example too. That 'why' is really some crazy singing  Re falsetto.. I always get confused but just can't help to think about it sometimes cuz he is just too amazing. I think in WWFM on SYTYCD America, when he sang "It's me" he used his falsetto |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 12:43:04 GMT -5
OMG!!!! Thank you so much for answering my silly question - and in such detail!!!! I've been watching the First Voice of Serbia and one of the judges has been constantly using these terms, so I really wanted to know that about Adam  Thanks again, Cassie and Holst! :wub: |
|
|
|
Post by stardust on Dec 18, 2012 15:24:15 GMT -5
I'm really enjoying this thread and all the great examples of songs! Many are my favorites!!!!
|
|
shimayo
Member
Posts: 102
Location:
|
Post by shimayo on Dec 20, 2012 16:27:33 GMT -5
Cassie, thank you. What I would like to know, and I'm sorry if this has been previously discussed on this thread ( in which case I would really appreciate if someone could direct me to the post), is if Adam uses these vocal techniques (ornaments?) and where, and if not, which ones he does use, and if he has favourites: glissando, or portamento vibrato trill legato staccato falsetto ... Aleks, Holst, Cassie, thank you , just wow! re-What makes Adam's voice 'good': right-clicked and saved it, had to. My question is about Cindy Lauper/Adam's duet. According to me, and I know nothing, It seems that Cindy Lauper tried and failed to hit the high notes in the last secs of "Mad world". If I remember well, she has a short bust, does it explain why she failed on these specific notes while she did pretty on others? I mean, could be this an exemple of the physiology-training-technique conditions in singing? Also, I often heard people talking about melody and harmony in duet. In Malagasy language, what we call "harmony"is actually the piano-like music intrument played at church, so I 'm not sure what harmony means in this context? :redface: Last one, what is the difference between a singer and a crooner. It always refers to a guy for a reason? |
|
|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 20, 2012 17:53:47 GMT -5
Aleks, Holst, Cassie, thank you , just wow! re-What makes Adam's voice 'good': right-clicked and saved it, had to. My question is about Cindy Lauper/Adam's duet. According to me, and I know nothing, It seems that Cindy Lauper tried and failed to hit the high notes in the last secs of "Mad world". If I remember well, she has a short bust, does it explain why she failed on these specific notes while she did pretty on others? I mean, could be this an exemple of the physiology-training-technique conditions in singing? At the end of MW, Cyndi tries for a high note. D5. (Not high for Adam, by the way.) She is singing in her chest voice, and it cracks because she is pushing it too hard. In order to hit that note, she needs to shift to her head voice. My guess is that she does not know how to do that, as she goes for it again on the last "world" and belts it out in chest voice, but it doesn't sound pretty. This is related to both physiology and technique. The physiology is the length and thickness of her vocal cords which determine how low and high she can sing. The technique is knowing how and where to shift from chest voice to head voice in order to hit high notes. I think she probably doesn't have good technical control. IMO [/IMG] [/quote] In a duet, the melody is the part that you would sing solo. The harmony is lower or higher notes that fit and compliment the melody line. Harmony also refers to the combination of notes that make up the chords that are played behind the melody in support of it. You can sing the same melody line, but use different chords in the harmony and change the sound or mood of the piece. A good example is Ring of Fire by Adam. The melody line is basically the same as the original, but there are middle-eastern sounding chords played by the band which change the song significantly A crooner is (usually) a male singer who specializes in songs that are slow and pretty. He sings with a tender, rich voice. He doesn't belt or do lots of fancy riffs. It is a term not used much in current pop music. If I were to label a current artist a "crooner" I think it would be Michael Buble. Hope that helps. |
|
shimayo
Member
Posts: 102
Location:
|
Post by shimayo on Dec 21, 2012 11:28:44 GMT -5
[Hope that helps.[/quote]
Yes, it did, a lot. TY Cassie.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2012 13:03:52 GMT -5
A good example is Ring of Fire by Adam. The melody line is basically the same as the original, but there are middle-eastern sounding chords played by the band which change the song significantly. Never thought I'd say this but you're not giving Adam enough credit here! ;D The minor second interval is what gives middle-eastern music its character, obviously there's none in the original, but Adam knows just which chords to use the minor second over and which to use the major second over in Ring of Fire. He also handles the weird chord changes really well, like there's a part which goes from B♭m to B♭ major, he trills around F - G♭s on the B♭m which is a minor second on the fifth of the chord, and around D - E♭s on the B♭ major which is a minor second on the third of that chord. I've always found it impressive for a guy who doesn't know any theory! |
|
Holst
Member
Posts: 4,786
Location:
|
Post by Holst on Dec 21, 2012 13:16:01 GMT -5
A good example is Ring of Fire by Adam. The melody line is basically the same as the original, but there are middle-eastern sounding chords played by the band which change the song significantly. Never thought I'd say this but you're not giving Adam enough credit here! ;D The minor second interval is what gives middle-eastern music its character, obviously there's none in the original, but Adam knows just which chords to use the minor second over and which to use the major second over in Ring of Fire. He also handles the weird chord changes really well, like there's a part which goes from B♭m to B♭ major, he trills around F - G♭s on the B♭m which is a minor second on the fifth of the chord, and around D - E♭s on the B♭ major which is a minor second on the third of that chord. I've always found it impressive for a guy who doesn't know any theory! After hearing ROF and then relistening to it that entire summer, I was convinced he was a very serious music major in college. How could he do all the ornaments otherwise? I guess he's just a natural--surprise, surprise. |
|
Holst
Member
Posts: 4,786
Location:
|
Post by Holst on Dec 21, 2012 13:56:53 GMT -5
Aleks, Holst, Cassie, thank you , just wow! re-What makes Adam's voice 'good': right-clicked and saved it, had to. My question is about Cindy Lauper/Adam's duet. According to me, and I know nothing, It seems that Cindy Lauper tried and failed to hit the high notes in the last secs of "Mad world". If I remember well, she has a short bust, does it explain why she failed on these specific notes while she did pretty on others? I mean, could be this an exemple of the physiology-training-technique conditions in singing? At the end of MW, Cyndi tries for a high note. D5. (Not high for Adam, by the way.) She is singing in her chest voice, and it cracks because she is pushing it too hard. In order to hit that note, she needs to shift to her head voice. My guess is that she does not know how to do that, as she goes for it again on the last "world" and belts it out in chest voice, but it doesn't sound pretty. This is related to both physiology and technique. The physiology is the length and thickness of her vocal cords which determine how low and high she can sing. The technique is knowing how and where to shift from chest voice to head voice in order to hit high notes. I think she probably doesn't have good technical control. IMO In a duet, the melody is the part that you would sing solo. The harmony is lower or higher notes that fit and compliment the melody line. Harmony also refers to the combination of notes that make up the chords that are played behind the melody in support of it. You can sing the same melody line, but use different chords in the harmony and change the sound or mood of the piece. A good example is Ring of Fire by Adam. The melody line is basically the same as the original, but there are middle-eastern sounding chords played by the band which change the song significantly A crooner is (usually) a male singer who specializes in songs that are slow and pretty. He sings with a tender, rich voice. He doesn't belt or do lots of fancy riffs. It is a term not used much in current pop music. If I were to label a current artist a "crooner" I think it would be Michael Buble. Hope that helps. , you are a real master at explaining things to people who may not have much music training. I bow down. I'm going to add just a few thoughts to Cassie's: - Cyndi's cracked note: It is true that many people do not know how to access their head voice. As I work with middle schoolers (ages 11-14ish), there is an occasional kid who says they "can't sing that high," when in fact they can but don't know how to because they are stuck in their chest voice. This is also a reason many popular songs don't have much range. When said students DO shift to head voice, it sounds so drastically different from the belting chest voice that they often look shocked or think it just sounds weird. Then they need to learn to smoothen the transitions between chest and head voice.
I used to run into this type of case a lot. However, now that I've been at my small school for 10 years (grades K-8/ages 5-14), I've trained them early on to use their head voice. I'm not a vocal guru, but my sister is an expert in teaching young voices. One of her best tips for me to teach head voice to kids is to pretend to whimper high like a puppy. I start with lips closed, which forces the voice to the head. Then we can open the lips and the sound is head voice. Also, I have kids make siren sounds while moving their hand and arm higher and lower in the air. The movement is similar to this image (ignore the labels and just look at the curvy line).
I have yet to see a little kid who can't do this (except for one or two kids with disabilities). They love it. Then at some point we hold our hand still and high, and then I ask them to match my voice. Then we are all singing the same pitch. If you aren't familiar with head voice, try it! Everyone has one.
Cyndi's issue could also be an aging voice that is not as in shape as it used to be.
- Harmony as an instrument: There is an instrument called "harmonium." It is a keyboard instrument and might be what Shimayo is referring to. It is usually a smallish instrument. In the U.S. a larger version is also know as a pump organ. They are non-electric instruments that use a bellows to blow air through the instrument and make pitches. They were popular in small churches and home parlors before electricity. I own one (not the one pictured below.)
- Crooners--My first thought was Buble as well. The original crooners were guys like Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, and Perry Como. They sang the style of songs called the "Great American Songbook." (Easy to Google if you want more info). Other modern-ish crooners are Michael Feinstein, Harry Connick Jr., and probably Il Divo (yes, the very young group from Italy). They all sing in a style that does not play much on American radio.
|
|
|
|
Post by cassie on Dec 21, 2012 14:04:19 GMT -5
A good example is Ring of Fire by Adam. The melody line is basically the same as the original, but there are middle-eastern sounding chords played by the band which change the song significantly. Never thought I'd say this but you're not giving Adam enough credit here! ;D The minor second interval is what gives middle-eastern music its character, obviously there's none in the original, but Adam knows just which chords to use the minor second over and which to use the major second over in Ring of Fire. He also handles the weird chord changes really well, like there's a part which goes from B♭m to B♭ major, he trills around F - G♭s on the B♭m which is a minor second on the fifth of the chord, and around D - E♭s on the B♭ major which is a minor second on the third of that chord. I've always found it impressive for a guy who doesn't know any theory! Well, yeah. Okay. You are totally right. In my defense, I was using this as an example of how using alternate harmonies can drastically change the sound of a song. It was perhaps not the best example, as Adam does all kinds of weird and magical things with this song. From a music theory, a vocal technique and an interpretive perspective, this is a masterpiece. |
|
