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Post by cassie on Mar 7, 2011 19:12:06 GMT -5
musicislife I don't know if you watched Idol during Adam's season, but I was contasntly irritated/bummed that the judges never mentioned or explained WHY Adam's voice is so good. I don't want to get into a re-hash of the season, because it's over & done & it will always be a WTF to me that he didn't win I've moved on, but the way the judges didn't bother to use even a few words to shed some light on how technically amazing his voice is was a dis-service to Adam. I think people got annoyed with the constant (but well-deserved) praise and didn't understand why a guy who "screams" all the time was considered so good. Maybe the judges lacked the knowledge to articulate why, or got caught up in the moment after his performances, who knows. But it would have been nice to clue the audience in a bit on his technical abilities. I just never understood how anyone could hear those high notes & think it was a scream. I get it if that's not pleasing to some people's ears to hear a man hit notes like that, but the thing is - they were notes. Not screams. Ok, shutting up now. I have A LOT of feelings about the topic of Adam & screaming.  There are many people who are in love with Adam's voice, but couldn't tell you why. "It sounds good! It makes me smile." Why? "Dunno." Randy and Simon certainly don't have vocal training, and I am not sure that Paula and Kara do either. The most they can say is "the way you held that note", "you sing notes I didn't know were possible", "using that false". That is the main reason I started this forum. As a trained singer I can recognize some of the things Adam is doing from a technical perspective and share it with others. But, on Idol, the judges have just a few seconds to comment and, even if they had the knowledge to talk about technique, probably would be discouraged because it would be too nerdy?? One of the other things I absolutely love about Adam's style of singing is the way he doesn't chop up phrases. I know you've posted about this before and how he extends his breath & the musical line through phrases. It's also amazing to me how long he can hold notes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but holding notes or executing runs in one breath in anything over 8-10 seconds is not the norm for pop singers and is not easy to do. In reviewing the GNT tour WLL's, I listened to Knoxville again and he holds the final note for almost 17 seconds. WHAT THE HELL? He's ridiculous! And I mean that as a compliment! I confess I did not notice that sustained run until you mentioned it. It is wicked! Adam's technical ability to sustain a breath, coupled with his MUSICALITY to know when to do it for effect, is one of the many things I like about him. Like he doesn't sing high just to say, "I wonder how high I can go?" he doesn't sustain just to show how long he can hold a note. The sustains have meaning. 8-10 seconds on one breath would be considered quite long for a pop singer. The normal phrasing more often tops out at about 5 seconds. Pop songs are written that way. Easy hooks, easy to sing. That is part of their appeal. It is also why, whether we notice it consciously or not, when Adam sustains a phrase it sounds unusual and pleasing.
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Post by cassie on Mar 7, 2011 19:42:20 GMT -5
musicgirlMy thoughts exactly. Aftermath is a wonderful example of his lower register being really resonant and expressive, while I'll admit FYE sounded a bit hollow at times. However, I think he improved over time, it sounded a lot sharper and dynamic as early as on the MTV UK version, not to mention by the end of the GNT. Obviously, he CAN improve it to some extent, I'm just not sure how much, given his natural...I'm not sure what's the word here...abilities? :-/ ( I hate not knowing all English technical terms!!gah..!!). I'd love to hear more of your thoughts about it. It is not possible to actually expand your natural range. A tenor can't decide that he wants to sing a baritone aria and do it with practice. However, most non-trained singers don't know how to access parts of their range at the top or the bottom. So, with lessons, they expand their usable range. Since Adam already has many years of training, I doubt that he can expand his usable range further. However, he rarely uses the bottom of his range. I think what we heard over the tour was the result of him using it nightly and learning how to use it better, with more resonance. (And how to use the mic to best advantage.) Since he is still in his late twenties and the human voice does not reach its full potential til the mid thirties, we may see more depth or richness in that lower register as he gets a few years older. Finally, I'd love to hear Adam sing with his "rock" voice a bit more. I truly love all of his "voices", so to speak, but given that my personal preferences always gravitate more towards rock (or jazz, soul, blues), I so love that raspier quality he brings to his voice when singing rock! I could listen to him for hours singing "Enter Sandman"  From what I've gathered from your earlier posts, you prefer his "clear" voice, right?  We're so lucky that with Adam,we'll always get to hear both sides equally, I think. Yup, prefer the clear voice, and I am not a metal fan. I was about to comment, "NOOOOOOOO. Not more heavy rock with raspiness!!!" Not because of my musical preferences, but because adding a rasp is damaging to the vocal cords. However, I went back and listened to it on YT, and while he rocks it out, most of the vocals are STILL his clear voice. He does add a bit of buzz or fry, but not thruout the whole song. So, I will compromise with you. He can do it occasionally, sparingly, for you, and I won't complain. Just not routinely and thruout a song. I don't care how much you love it, I am not gonna condone BB wrecking his voice. >:( >:( However, if you want more rock but will accept that he will do it authentically thru attitude, punch, and wicked riffs, but with proper technique, 'sokay by me. As long as I get a few heavenly ballads as well.
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Post by nica575 on Mar 7, 2011 23:06:09 GMT -5
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Post by cassie on Mar 8, 2011 1:03:39 GMT -5
Does she really want to go there? Take One? With those terrible songs??? : Wellllllll, okay then. I'm gonna approach this from a totally different direction. (Meaning ignore my hatred for this project.) Adam is a brilliant singer! Just brilliant. Light Falls Away is Adam doing a good imitation of a baritone with a kinda country delivery. Tho the notes don't go below a tenor bottom, he sings it like a baritone. He expands his chest to the max and then some, and focuses the sound way toward the back of his mouth, into his throat. (Very different from his usual placement.) He changes his pronunciation so that it sounds more country. He adds some buzz/fry to the higher notes, almost like he can't sing them clearly. He sings with almost a straight tone, like he doesn't have much vibrato. That he can change it up so completely is amazing. (Crazy thought. You know how some authors publish certain works under a pseudonym? Pretending to be someone else? Adam could do a pop/country album as a baritone and say it is by Dusty Madrid.) In another song, "Did you need it" he struggles a bit to keep his pure and ringing tone out of the high notes. He succeeds at 0:43 when he shifts into a light, weak head voice/false when he doesn't need to, but a baritone without great technique would. He does it again at the end at 4:43. Those breaks you clearly hear are not something Adam would normally do, but they are a good imitation of the type of singer who would. (Tho he slips up and sings it "better" on the high notes around 2:03.) www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFO5MjlatkE&feature=relatedFor another example of Adam imitating a baritone, check out Crazy at the Upright Cafe. Here, he imitates a legitimate men's choir baritone complete with wide vibrato (2:23). Hugely expanded chest, tone bounced way back in his mouth. www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnWdjfJluSg Contrast that with Adam singing as an operatic mezzo soprano in My Conviction. These are all examples of brilliant manipulation of his voice. Unfuckinbelievable. Who does that? Adam Lambert. So, yeah, I guess he DOES have resonance in his chest voice. |
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Post by rihannsu on Mar 8, 2011 10:09:36 GMT -5
I think I remember Monte saying that he was the one who got Adam the session gig for this which he now regrets, but at the time Adam needed money and Monte wanted Adam to have the experience of singing in studio. Neither of them expected to get shafted by the people they were working with. BTW Monte got screwed over here too.
Adam also said that he was asked to imitate another singer for these recordings and I am guessing that the regular guy they used was unavailable and they asked Adam to imitate him so as not to have a wildly different voice in the mix. Adam also was allowed absolutely NO input into how to do the vocal. I think of this in the same category as voice over work where an actor or actress is voicing a character that has nothing to do with them. I actually do listen to this album because I greatly appreciate the mastery Adam shows in inhabiting the character created for these songs. These songs together with CTMBTM, and My Conviction are to me evidence of Adam's incredible acting ability because all are Adam singing in character as opposed to Adam singing different genre's. All of these songs when first played for someone evoke the response "that's NOT Adam Lambert" because they AREN'T Adam Lambert but they ARE characters that Adam is playing. Kind of like the difference between great character actors and "stars". The character actor totally inhabits the part whereas the star is always in some ways themselves.
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Post by musicislife on Mar 8, 2011 11:32:23 GMT -5
Musicgirl - Thank you - I hope we get to chat more too. I'm such a classical music nerd. I think only 2nd to Adam, that is my favorite kind of music. I'm so happy you saw Adam in Vienna & hope you get to see him again on the next tour! I echo Cassie and the others who would absolutely kill to see Adam sing opera at the Met someday when he's older (only if he wanted to). My other dream is to hear him sing Soaked on a major awards show. With super dramatic staging (he rises up from under the stage with fog everywhere) and singing with just a piano (like GNT except the full length song) at the beginning and then a full orchestra appears out of nowhere. I WOULD DIE. Cassie - You're probably about why the judges didn't comment on his technique. I would have liked the show to get all nerdy, but I'm sure I'm in the minority. Thanks for the answer about holding notes. I was being generous with my 8-10 second guess  What's even more impressive in addition to how long he can hold a note is that it just sounds so effortless, like he could keep on going if he wanted to. The tour WLL's are a goldmine of incredible musical moments. Forgive me in advance if I keep coming back to them in future posts! Rihannsu - I thought I knew all there was to know about Adam's musical history but I must have missed the part about Monte getting Adam the Take One recording gig. That's interesting. I confess - I really, really like the song Want on the bastard album. (Not December-Remix, but Want - the one Perez leaked.) It's the only one where I immediately recognize Adam. Sure, it's a cheesefest but it's sweet and I like it when he sings sappy songs. :D My favorite thing about it is the way he pronounces love as "luh". "Luh is all we want". So adorable! The rest of the songs are DNW!!! Don't worry, I didn't pay $ to Hi-Fi for it! |
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Post by rihannsu on Mar 8, 2011 13:06:39 GMT -5
Rihannsu - I thought I knew all there was to know about Adam's musical history but I must have missed the part about Monte getting Adam the Take One recording gig. That's interesting. I confess - I really, really like the song Want on the bastard album. (Not December-Remix, but Want - the one Perez leaked.) It's the only one where I immediately recognize Adam. Sure, it's a cheesefest but it's sweet and I like it when he sings sappy songs. :D My favorite thing about it is the way he pronounces love as "luh". "Luh is all we want". So adorable! The rest of the songs are DNW!!! Don't worry, I didn't pay $ to Hi-Fi for it! Haha, I didn't pay for it either. I think the info about Monte getting him the gig was in an interview with Monte but don't know which one. He's been interviewed by fans a few times and was on Juneau and Xena's show recently and I think Rock Star Weekly interviewed him too. The stuff from Adam about being told to imitate someone else was from some preconcert interview either radio or meet n greet or something but couldn't tell you where. I suck because I remember the things said but never where the info is from. |
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Post by musicgirl on Mar 8, 2011 13:29:12 GMT -5
Yup, prefer the clear voice, and I am not a metal fan. I was about to comment, "NOOOOOOOO. Not more heavy rock with raspiness!!!" Not because of my musical preferences, but because adding a rasp is damaging to the vocal cords. However, I went back and listened to it on YT, and while he rocks it out, most of the vocals are STILL his clear voice. He does add a bit of buzz or fry, but not thruout the whole song. So, I will compromise with you. He can do it occasionally, sparingly, for you, and I won't complain. Just not routinely and thruout a song. I don't care how much you love it, I am not gonna condone BB wrecking his voice. >:( >:( However, if you want more rock but will accept that he will do it authentically thru attitude, punch, and wicked riffs, but with proper technique, 'sokay by me. As long as I get a few heavenly ballads as well.[/quote] Cassie,thank you  Don't get angry with me, please!I surrender!  Of course I wouldn't want him to sing in a way that could permanently damage his vocal cords, but as you say, he can do it occasionally, JUST FOR ME ( LOL  ) In return, I hope he does a lot of ballads for you as well What I really meant is that I like when he adds a little bit of a shade to his voice, colors it to be a bit..dunno...heavier?warmer?fuller? don't know how to explain it better. He sometimes does it while still singing in clear voice, and I admit I like it much better that way, can't help it!! Just my personal preference (although I don't consider myself to be a metal fan. Sure, I like it well enough, but I've never limited myself to one genre, you know? I listen to all kinds of music, everything from jazz to rock to disco to classical to world music and all in between and beyond:)) Personally, although Adam can sing different genres, and excels in most of them, I feel that where he shines best is in either eerie, highly sensitive, moody type of vocal (a la Mad World or Broken Open) or in rock, full-of-swagger, edgy, beat-driven vocal, and that's what I'd like to see in album no.2. Also, one of my favorite performances ever was his Idol version of A change is gonna come which had his version of soul/blues vocals, and I thought he was just phenomenal! (If he could add bits of those in his vocal and maybe go some type of funk-rock,neo soul-funk, rock route , I'd be thrilled:)-but that's not to say I have any expectations or that I wouldn't like anything he decides to put out -j/s:)). And I digress!; what I wanted to say, about ACIGC, there are two moments in that performance that always get to me, and also, that have that type of "shadiness" I mentioned; First, in the 1st verse,when he sings "knocking me dooooown", the way he sings it, he layers and winds the notes so beautifully, especially the ending of the word "down"- I swear, his voice is like a guitar there, just beautiful:)..Second, at the end, when he holds the long note on "come"-his voice is full, rich, round and healthy, yet right in the middle he adds just a lick of rasp and it makes such a difference, you know? It completely changes the meaning of the whole phrase, IMO. OK, enough babbling on my part:P Again, thank you for all your insights, I really enjoyed it! Musicislife, so happy to encounter all of you other "classical nerds" here on ATop; you've just inspired me to go listen to some Berlioz...love him! thanks  |
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Post by csharpminor on Mar 8, 2011 15:01:27 GMT -5
Rihannsu - I thought I knew all there was to know about Adam's musical history but I must have missed the part about Monte getting Adam the Take One recording gig. That's interesting. I confess - I really, really like the song Want on the bastard album. (Not December-Remix, but Want - the one Perez leaked.) It's the only one where I immediately recognize Adam. Sure, it's a cheesefest but it's sweet and I like it when he sings sappy songs. :D My favorite thing about it is the way he pronounces love as "luh". "Luh is all we want". So adorable! The rest of the songs are DNW!!! Don't worry, I didn't pay $ to Hi-Fi for it! Haha, I didn't pay for it either. I think the info about Monte getting him the gig was in an interview with Monte but don't know which one. He's been interviewed by fans a few times and was on Juneau and Xena's show recently and I think Rock Star Weekly interviewed him too. The stuff from Adam about being told to imitate someone else was from some preconcert interview either radio or meet n greet or something but couldn't tell you where. I suck because I remember the things said but never where the info is from. "True Hollywood Story". Adam and Monte talking about this. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fJdNPmsoSM&feature=related |
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Post by nica575 on Mar 8, 2011 18:41:47 GMT -5
musicislife and musicgirl - I am so happy to have new fellow classical music lovers here!!!! I always thought that I am the only person on this forum who loves classical music + Adam.... In the last two years I've been diligently listening to all kinds of stuff recommended by Adam and the folks here and on the SSG and the DDD. I've expanded my "knowledge" to the point that I can fool anyone now and pass for a rock/pop fan...but the truth is that I enjoy none of it and most of the voices and music just annoy me (with a very few exceptions)... Adam is a HUUUUGE exception... as I said since the first time I heard him - his voice goes straight to my pleasure centers....the rest is classical only. 8-) csharpminor - thank you for the TH YT! Like others - I remember what he said but I can never remember when/where he said it :-[ and I LOVE your name!
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We're so lucky that with Adam,we'll always get to hear both sides equally, I think. 
What's even more impressive in addition to how long he can hold a note is that it just sounds so effortless, like he could keep on going if he wanted to. The tour WLL's are a goldmine of incredible musical moments. Forgive me in advance if I keep coming back to them in future posts!
