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Post by cassie on Mar 19, 2011 19:16:57 GMT -5
Hi Cassie and all I wanted to make a couple of comments on the vid above: That is really really good a capella singing...very high degree of difficulty. I sang barbershop with the Sweet Adelines for a few years and it is much harder to do those 'beat' bum bum bum's than you would imagine...they are much harder than singing the melody! And they had the full 4 parts there....really good. There are still quite a few barbershop groups ranging from the classic quartets to the more common/popular choruses .... and of course, including the female SAI singers. There are competitions yearly, throughout the world. They just don't get a lot of press....but some groups are really good. Glad to hear that the barbershop tradition is alive and well. It slipped my mind that you were the one in Sweet Adelines. Singing in tune with multi-part harmony is very difficult. Finding your pitch in the middle of a chord and holding it, not being dragged toward the pitch on either side of you takes confidence, control and a great ear. Singing multi-part harmony in a small group a cappella, with no instruments to rely on to provide pitches to you or hide your bum notes, is even tougher. It is rare that I hear it performed well enough that I don't cringe at the occasional off pitches. I don't know enough about the mechanics of vocal growth in adolescence to answer this one. But, looking at it logically, many teens sing often without damaging their voices. I think it is what you sing, how you sing, and how often. As long as you are singing with the proper technique in order not to strain your voice, as long as you are singing in the "sweet spots" of your voice and not pushing the top or the bottom, and as long as you are not overtaxing your voice through long term, constant use, you should be okay. I think the kids who are classically trained and coached probably have a better chance of preserving and improving their voices than those who are pushing themselves to hit notes they don't know how to hit. Totally in agreement with you there. It's about keeping it real and honest --- a concept that Adam would champion. He readily admits that his vocals aren't perfect. If you remember, that was his regret about the AMAs. The pitch, not the PG rating. He also faulted himself on Black or White, saying it was pitchy in spots. I didn't even notice until he said something, but listening again, I hear what he did. He acknowledges when something isn't up to the standard he wants it, then moves on to the next project, learning from the mistakes and maintaining the courage to continue to go for it without hiding behind a "safe" but mundane performance. As long as Adam is choosing to live and perform large, to push boundaries of society and within himself, to go for the adrenaline rush that he finds by walking on the edge, he is gonna have some less than perfect moments and some gloriously fukced up ones. He doesn't expect his fans to adore everything he does and every decision he makes. I imagine what he expects (or hopes) from his fans is loyalty that allows him to be less than perfect. To shed his armor, to take a trip, to be broken open. To be so imperfectly who he is. |
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Post by willowgarden on Mar 19, 2011 19:33:21 GMT -5
Just beautiful ! What is it, Cassie, that makes siblings singing together so special? My favorite duo, the Everlys, sounded like one voice sometimes, and I could never figure out how they could do that. They also fought like cats and dogs most of the time, but when they opened their mouth to sing, it was just heavenly. I always thought Phil Everly had the corner on singing "way up there" until I heard Adam. www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIIlQmdsfX8I think that siblings singing together sound good for a couple of reasons. First, I notice that my two sisters and I, and to a certain degree, my sisters' two daughters all sound somewhat alike when speaking. Probably because we heard the same voices and vocal patterns/accents growing up. That transfers to singing together. We also heard the same music while growing up, so tend to sing with somewhat of a similar style. Then, I suppose that there is harmony in just knowing each other so well and for so long that adds harmony to the singing. Finally, there may be some genetically similar anatomical structures that give our voices similar resonance. At least, those are my guesses. Thank you, Cassie. What you said makes a lot of sense. Genetics and environment play a large part in making siblings sound extra special. It didn't help in my case when my 2 sisters and I were standing in front of our large mirror practicing for "Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley" back in the late 50's. Picture a 4, 6 and 7 year old doing this. We thought we sounded just like the Kingston Trio but of course we didn't. These are the same 2 sisters that I dragged to BC some 50 years later to see Adam.  |
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aloha
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Post by aloha on Mar 20, 2011 3:23:29 GMT -5
Finally....just a comment, not meant to aggravate. I am really glad we have this thread here so that it is possible to acknowledge minute events in Adam's singing in a way that does not leave us in danger of being called out as 'bad' fans...or even non-fans...which is what was happening to the 2 or 3 who suggested that the first few notes...especially 3rd beat...was wobbly and off on the AI aftermath. If he was...or anybody was...100% perfect, 100% of the time, eventually, it would cease to be worthwhile even checking in...it might actually even get boring.....oops...tmi? running for the sofa here..... TRUST ME....I adore Adam and truly believe, no..I know...he has one of the most amazing voices around....bar none. You know, if I contributed to your feeling of being called out I do apologise. I do not believe I ever called anyone a bad fan, but I know I did jump in and express exasperation about the "pitchy" comments I had seen on twitter. To tell you the truth, I had not read the thread thoroughly that day, and I probably should have. I did hear the slight bobble in Adam's beginning. It didn't bother me. I could hear the difference in tone and delivery. But I still consider the performance "perfect" and beautiful. I thought about my objection to the word "pitchy" and figured it out, finally. Other than the fact that it's a fake word, like "efforting," I really hate "pitchy" when used to describe Adam's singing. To me, pitchy is what Lee Dewize did on Idol. Pitchy is the inability to hear oneself and self correct. Pitchy is being constantly sharp and flat, not just off a fraction ofa note here or there. That's not Adam. Adam makes tiny mistakes and corrects them almost immediately. He has excellent relative pitch and it shows in his nearly flawless performances. I do not consider a wobble here and there pitchiness. It's a natural part of singing live. As you said, Adam is human. But his abilities as a singer are unmatched, IMO. Another factor in a lot of the 'flat" comments, I believe, is the guitar accompaniment that at first sounds jarring to the ear. When I listened again, I realized that it sounds a bit like Adam is "fighting" a bit with the guitar-- it doesn't sound as pleasing or melodic as the version we're accustomed to hearing. My husband, who plays bass, said immediately, "He needs rhythm." I was confused until he explained to me that he meant rhythm guitar.. he felt the arrangement needed the -- um-- "middle notes"-- that actually kicked in a bit later. I feel I am botching this explanation. It made sense when he explained it to me, I promise! I have listened to that performance so many times, and am convinced Adam had one or two off notes, but nothing even close to "pitchy." Anyway, my original point was to make an apology. I would never call anyone a bad fan. Period. |
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Post by cassie on Mar 20, 2011 10:41:02 GMT -5
I did hear the slight bobble in Adam's beginning. It didn't bother me. I could hear the difference in tone and delivery. But I still consider the performance "perfect" and beautiful. I thought about my objection to the word "pitchy" and figured it out, finally. Other than the fact that it's a fake word, like "efforting," I really hate "pitchy" when used to describe Adam's singing. To me, pitchy is what Lee Dewize did on Idol. Pitchy is the inability to hear oneself and self correct. Pitchy is being constantly sharp and flat, not just off a fraction ofa note here or there. That's not Adam. Adam makes tiny mistakes and corrects them almost immediately. He has excellent relative pitch and it shows in his nearly flawless performances. I do not consider a wobble here and there pitchiness. It's a natural part of singing live. As you said, Adam is human. But his abilities as a singer are unmatched, IMO. This point was an "aha" moment for me. I totally agree with you, but was unable to articulate my thoughts. When singers have pitch problems that make me wince, it is usually due to inappropriate technique --- they can't hit or sustain the note --- or due to the inability to hear when a pitch is off. I was thinking of instrumentalists. For example, it is impossible for a pianist to have pitch problems as long as the piano is in tune. However, even the best pianists occasionally hit the wrong key in a chord or a run. As technically accomplished as they are, they are not machines (thank goodness). A machine can be programmed to hit every note precisely, but not to INTERPRET the song emotionally or masterfully. I will take an emotionally moving performance with a few boggles over a technically perfect but sterile performance any day of the week. I think I notice when Adam hits that occasional "bum" note because he is generally so flawless. It surprises me. But, as you said, so long as he can hear what he is singing, he instantly corrects. The Party City performances and the one Strut performance when he walked off stage I wish could be permanently destroyed. They are not examples of an artist having a "bad night", but of an artist placed in a situation where it is impossible for them to perform well; the equivalent of a concert pianist having to play on a rickety piano last tuned in 1983. Nothing they can do to sound good in that situation. . When I heard the first couple of chords on the guitar I thought WTF? I couldn't hear the key or where he was going. Again, I didn't put it together until your post, but I can imagine that Adam could have been equally confused. "Where are you going with this? Where am I supposed to start?" It happens in live performance. And once they all got going on the same page, the performance was beautiful. Absolutely! Adam raises the bar so high when he performs. Other singers just wish they could perform to his consistent standards. |
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Post by musicislife on Mar 21, 2011 10:46:05 GMT -5
Aloha said: I agree with this so much. Adam might hit a wrong note now and then but he's not pitchy. I've never heard a live singer as consistenly in tune as he is. In fact, the only times I've ever heard him hit a bum note here and there is during his tv performances. Knowing nothing about sound-mixing or tv broadcasting, I have to think studios are challenging to get a decent mix in. He mentioned it himself in regard to the AMA's (worst vocal I've ever heard from him - hot performance tho aside from the ninja roll which still traumatizes me  ) - I believe him when he says that Idol studio is difficult to mix. I also think even though he performed on tv every week during his Idol run, he's still relatively new to performing on tv. I know he mentioned he doesn't really get nervous but he gets a pretty good adrenaline rush which could make him a little wobbly. I think as he gets more seasoned on tv, he'll sound as flawless as he does in concert. Cassie replied: Get out of my brain! :D I thought the same thing when they started, like uhhh...guys? In fact, as soon as Adam finished the first verse, I noticed he pulled his mic away from his mouth and briefly looked away. It was pretty quick, but to me he looked a little annoyed - you can usually tell on his face when he isn't happy with the sound (TOP 3 CRYIN' ANYONE?!). Thanks for giving your opinion on the performance again, I definitely missed it in the news thread. In my review, I left out the wobble on "lost" at the beginning cuz it seemed to me that most people who thought he was off had that impression from the tonal changes he made to the phrases he usually sings in head voice so that's what I focued on. And even with the tiny bobbles, he was still fucking awesome! I echo mszue & allison too - I don't think it makes anyone a bad fan to point out when he hits a bum note either. Everyone hears things differently and maybe the people who get a little cranky when he's criticized truly don't hear anything off with the performance. We all obviously love and adore and respect him, otherwise we wouldn't be here! He isn't perfect 100% of the time (BLASPHEMY I KNOW!) but no one is. I wouldn't want to hear non-stop wank & negativity about his every performance, but I like the honesty here. And WOW on the tutorial - you put so much work into that & it was sooo interesting. The examples really make it easier to understand. You are a wonderful teacher! Thank you so much for that!
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Post by evergreen on Mar 21, 2011 13:02:17 GMT -5
I don't get to this thread every day, so missed the mention of barbershop singing. My husband and his brothers sang as a quartet for a number of years so I tagged along to many shows, competitions and afterglows. I never understood the science of a "ringing" chord, but when they "ring one," it sounds great! Don't keep up with it any more, but there are some great choruses and, I'm sure, quartets still very active. Here's a YT of a performance that shows how good they can be. Not only vocally, but as showmen! www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmDGntpZC3IAnd this group is also amazing! www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzEYmhs1wJg&feature=player_embedded#at=40I know this is a bit OT, but someone mentioned the word, so I couldn't resist! And kudos to MzSue - that kind of harmony is not easy! |
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sugaree
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Post by sugaree on Mar 21, 2011 13:49:24 GMT -5
Just got back from a week skiing in Utah. Great stuff in here to catch up on. Evergreen - wow on the Ambassadors. OT, but I just got this in an e-mail. 7 year old sings the NA at a basketball game. I usually don't like watching or listening to the child prodigies, but he doesn't sound like the pre-puberty little boy to me. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR2rvxSUr7w |
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Post by willowgarden on Mar 21, 2011 23:37:57 GMT -5
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Post by cassie on Mar 21, 2011 23:57:11 GMT -5
Just got back from a week skiing in Utah. Great stuff in here to catch up on. Evergreen - wow on the Ambassadors. OT, but I just got this in an e-mail. 7 year old sings the NA at a basketball game. I usually don't like watching or listening to the child prodigies, but he doesn't sound like the pre-puberty little boy to me. www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR2rvxSUr7wNow, that is impressive (tho' his leg movement makes it look like he needs to pee really badly :D) Good tone, and great pitch. Bravo. |
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Post by cassie on Mar 22, 2011 0:06:28 GMT -5
Sure does sound like Sinatra. I checked out his facebook page and he says he is working with a vocal coach. Glad to hear it. He has great potential. A very pleasant voice. At sixteen, his voice is still maturing. His very bottom notes were tentative, and the very top notes sounded a little pushed. (sung all in chest voice). I would say he should have raised the key a note or two to hit those bottom notes, but, then, he might not have been able to hit the top notes. With good coaching, and maturity, his voice will only improve. (I'd also coach him not to cut off the end of his phrases, but to hold those notes a little longer. In that, he reminds me of Michael Buble. Finish the phrase, boys!) Thanks for posting this. ETA: forgot to say that I loved his piano work. Nice chording and jazzy harmonies. |
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) - I believe him when he says that Idol studio is difficult to mix. I also think even though he performed on tv every week during his Idol run, he's still relatively new to performing on tv. I know he mentioned he doesn't really get nervous but he gets a pretty good adrenaline rush which could make him a little wobbly. I think as he gets more seasoned on tv, he'll sound as flawless as he does in concert.
