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Post by cassie on Jan 3, 2012 0:17:41 GMT -5
Cassie, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us/me! I always find this thread fascinating. I do have a question regarding Adam's EMA performance (which I love.) At one point you had mentioned that Adam displayed vocal techniques that even opera singers have a hard time mastering. Could you possibly comment on that? Also, do you think that Angelina will have a program that discusses this performance someday? I agree that the criticisms of Adam's performance needs to be taking in the context of the venue and all of the other nuances of the situation. I love the fact that Adam is such a brave performer, and not scared to push the limits, even though some of the notes may fall short. Thanks Welcome, solar. Glad you jumped in. Adam does many things extraordinarily well, and I am just talking about vocal techniques and interpretation here.  One of the most remarkable to me is the amount and, even more important, balance of resonance and harmonics he can incorporate into a tone. When you listen to some trained singers, they have this dark, dramatic, deep tone. This comes from aiming the tone toward the back of the mouth and throat, and getting a lot of resonance from the chest, and producing lots of low frequency harmonics, but few higher frequency ones.. An example of this can be heard here: It sounds very deep and low, right? Would you believe that most of the song is pitched in a similar range to the first verse of Aftermath? What a different sound from Adam's, because of anatomy, and also because of where the singers place the notes for resonance. But, wait. Listen to this version of Crazy that Adam sings. Go to about 2:20 where he starts a sing along. When he is imitating the Gay Men's Chorus he completely shifts his normal technique and tone placement to sound deep and dark. So, Adam has access to this type of resonance and tone when he chooses. Some other singers, when singing high, have a shrill, brittle sharpness to their tone. Hate to do this to you, but, what comes immediately to mind as an example is 1:30 in this video of Durbin. That note is an F5. The note has lots of very high frequency harmonics, but is lacking in lower frequency harmonics which would make the tone fuller. (And, parenthetically, when Durbin sings the verses in his low range, he has very few of those deep, dark, rich resonances I mentioned earlier, making the sound weak.) I don't, thankfully, have a comparison to Adam singing with that brittle sound. If it exists somewhere, I'll leave it lay. But, some of his earlier Upright Cabaret numbers have some of that sharpness in the high notes which, I think, have mellowed and become fuller as he has matured. Here is Adam singing the same note as Durbin. F5. At about 2:42 here. www.youtube.com/watch?v=hP3gMBn7gNE&ob=av2eAnd on Fever, at 2:36 he hits a ringing, clear, full F#5. The tone is much more ... rich than Durbin's, because it has a broader range of harmonics in it. Adam has this way of creating these complex harmonics in his body up and down his entire range. He can consistently place the tone in the facial 'mask', the front and top of his skull and sinuses. Some singers refer to that quality as "ping". Like the pure ringing of fine crystal. Many singers sound very different when singing in chest voice vs head voice, because of the different harmonics being produced. But, somehow, Adam can produce the lower, richer harmonics in head voice, and the ringing, lighter harmonics in his chest voice, combining both for a uniquely pleasing and consistent voice from low to high. That's one of the characteristics of Adam's voice that makes it distinctively his own, no matter the genre or style he is singing in. We can pick it out in a crowd. And one that many professional singers, even opera singers, haven't mastered as well as Adam has. As for Angelina doing a program about the EMA performance, it is on her to-do list, along with a discussion of BTIKM. Many have asked for her to give her opinion on those. Unfortunately (well not for her, but for us) RL is keeping her constantly on the go, and she has not been able to do it yet. I think I will pass on your request as a little additional nudge. |
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eri9
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Post by eri9 on Jan 3, 2012 4:16:57 GMT -5
Thanks so much Cassie - I just love reading your discussions about Adam's voice and technique! I am a musician with a wee bit of singing training, so I understand what you say, but appreciate your far more "expertise" descriptions of what Adam is capable of. His voice continues to slay me even after almost 3 years of listening to him sing every day. Watching your clips posted above from Upright Cabaret NYE THREE years ago!!! Just Wow!!! How far has he come since then?! But I digress! Thought I'd ask you here as the thread in question is now yesterday's - in regards to the "falsetto" reference in the Billboard review. I totally agree - there is no falsetto in BTIKM, so I have no idea what the reviewer was hearing..... but I think you're correct when people assume any high male voice is falsetto! As to when Adam has actually sung in falsetto, do you consider his last notes in Mad World (AI perf) to be falsetto? I've always thought it was, and have read about how he sung the harmony by mistake.....but I've never been sure about that - what do you think? I know he has a VERY slight "wobble" at the beginning of the last note, but I just feel that it adds to the emotion of the song!  Actually after listening to it again, it sounds to me, as if he (seamlessly as always!) goes into falsetto on "world" at 2.32 just before the very last "mad world" which I also think is falsetto. Would love to hear your expert thoughts, Cassie! Thanks! |
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Post by cassie on Jan 3, 2012 4:50:16 GMT -5
Thanks so much Cassie - I just love reading your discussions about Adam's voice and technique! I am a musician with a wee bit of singing training, so I understand what you say, but appreciate your far more "expertise" descriptions of what Adam is capable of. His voice continues to slay me even after almost 3 years of listening to him sing every day. Watching your clips posted above from Upright Cabaret NYE THREE years ago!!! Just Wow!!! How far has he come since then?! But I digress! Thought I'd ask you here as the thread in question is now yesterday's - in regards to the "falsetto" reference in the Billboard review. I totally agree - there is no falsetto in BTIKM, so I have no idea what the reviewer was hearing..... but I think you're correct when people assume any high male voice is falsetto! As to when Adam has actually sung in falsetto, do you consider his last notes in Mad World (AI perf) to be falsetto? I've always thought it was, and have read about how he sung the harmony by mistake.....but I've never been sure about that - what do you think? I know he has a VERY slight "wobble" at the beginning of the last note, but I just feel that it adds to the emotion of the song! Actually after listening to it again, it sounds to me, as if he (seamlessly as always!) goes into falsetto on "world" at 2.32 just before the very last "mad world" which I also think is falsetto. Would love to hear your expert thoughts, Cassie! Thanks! So glad you jumped in. Thanks for the kind words. And you ask a good question. Adam is a tricky singer. He can blend his chest and head voice on impossibly high notes. He can sing in that full voice all the way up to that wonderful f5, G5 we sometimes hear. It has so much power. But, he can also shift into a light head voice from a little over middle C on up. In my opinion, that is what he does at the point you are talking about in MW. On the second to last "world". it just floats, but it has too much ring and clarity for falsetto. Adam himself said that, from nerves, he sang the harmony on the last "mad world.". It was a definite "oops". He overshoots the last note at the beginning, but quickly corrects the pitch. Just gave it a smidge too much oomph, probably internally panicking that the note was much higher than he had rehearsed. He wanted to just touch and caress it,not power it. You are right, tho, that it makes him sound very vulnerable, so, in the end, it worked! If others have a different opinion, I welcome it, as I can certainly be wrong. |
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aralid
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Post by aralid on Jan 3, 2012 10:17:18 GMT -5
A few month ago I saw on TV a guy who shatters a wine glass with his voice. This is the only video I found, but probably many of you won't be able to see it. www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/videos/clip/32000-extrem-schall-teil-i-1.2055142/In part 2 of this video he actually manages it, after more than 40 attempts. They say that the singer has to sing the exact same note that the glass produces when it vibrates and that the singer has to sing it with power, 105 dB is mentioned, and hold the exact note for a while. I think the note has been near F5. Cassie, you can probably imagine why I post this ;D Do you think Adam could do it, too? Although I don't want him to do it, because the singer in the video had to hold the glass so near to his mouth that when it shattered he had pieces of glass in his mouth. I'm just curiousETA: even if you can watch it, it is in German. I forgot. ;D here is another one in english with the same singer |
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solar1
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Post by solar1 on Jan 3, 2012 11:26:00 GMT -5
Thank you so much, Cassie for your thoughtful reply. I always enjoy learning from a great teacher!
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Post by cassie on Jan 3, 2012 11:39:38 GMT -5
A few month ago I saw on TV a guy who shatters a wine glass with his voice. This is the only video I found, but probably many of you won't be able to see it. www.prosieben.de/tv/galileo/videos/clip/32000-extrem-schall-teil-i-1.2055142/In part 2 of this video he actually manages it, after more than 40 attempts. They say that the singer has to sing the exact same note that the glass produces when it vibrates and that the singer has to sing it with power, 105 dB is mentioned, and hold the exact note for a while. I think the note has been near F5. Cassie, you can probably imagine why I post this ;D Do you think Adam could do it, too? Although I don't want him to do it, because the singer in the video had to hold the glass so near to his mouth that when it shattered he had pieces of glass in his mouth. I'm just curiousETA: even if you can watch it, it is in German. I forgot. ;D here is another one in english with the same singer hahahahaha. Yup, I figured out where you were going immediately. I'm not up on my physics of sound, but this seems to me to be a matter of a singer having the control to match the frequency with which the glass vibrates, to sustain that precise frequency without wavering, and to produce the note with enough intensity or loudness to break the glass. It has nothing to do with the quality of the sound and everything to do with the control and the body structure to produce the note. Actually, this YT is a good example of the piercing, biting, sharp tone I was talking about before that lacks the lower frequency harmonics. Kinda sets my teeth on edge. Do you have that reaction? Must be the fillings in my teeth vibrating to the frequency of his voice. Shudder. Does Adam have the anatomy to produce the note that the glass vibrates at? The notes on the video, yup. Definitely. Does he have the control to sustain it? Yup. On the exact pitch? Yup, tho it would take some practice because it goes contrary to what he normally does when singing. The reason Adam's voice is so appealing is that it incorporates a wide range of pleasing harmonic overtones or resonances. Not just the main frequency of the pitch, but the complimentary frequencies as well, lower and higher. But, to break the glass, the voice has to be concentrated on only one frequency. The harmonic overtones could actually stabilize the glass. So Adam would have to focus the note more narrowly than he normally does. Also, like most serious singers, Adam usually adds at least a wisp of vibrato to most notes unconsciously to warm up the sound. But, vibrato is minute oscillations in frequency which would prevent the glass from being broken, not set my teeth on edge. Adam also has the physiology that can amplify resonance ---- i.e. he can sing loud --- so, yeah, in all probability, Adam could do this. Let' not suggest it to him, 'K? He just might be ornery enough to want to give it a try, and I would rather just shatter the glass with a hammer than risk the lip freckles. |
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aralid
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Post by aralid on Jan 3, 2012 13:29:10 GMT -5
hahahahaha. Yup, I figured out where you were going immediately. I'm not up on my physics of sound, but this seems to me to be a matter of a singer having the control to match the frequency with which the glass vibrates, to sustain that precise frequency without wavering, and to produce the note with enough intensity or loudness to break the glass. It has nothing to do with the quality of the sound and everything to do with the control and the body structure to produce the note. Actually, this YT is a good example of the piercing, biting, sharp tone I was talking about before that lacks the lower frequency harmonics. Kinda sets my teeth on edge. Do you have that reaction? Must be the fillings in my teeth vibrating to the frequency of his voice. Shudder. Does Adam have the anatomy to produce the note that the glass vibrates at? The notes on the video, yup. Definitely. Does he have the control to sustain it? Yup. On the exact pitch? Yup, tho it would take some practice because it goes contrary to what he normally does when singing. The reason Adam's voice is so appealing is that it incorporates a wide range of pleasing harmonic overtones or resonances. Not just the main frequency of the pitch, but the complimentary frequencies as well, lower and higher. But, to break the glass, the voice has to be concentrated on only one frequency. The harmonic overtones could actually stabilize the glass. So Adam would have to focus the note more narrowly than he normally does. Also, like most serious singers, Adam usually adds at least a wisp of vibrato to most notes unconsciously to warm up the sound. But, vibrato is minute oscillations in frequency which would prevent the glass from being broken, not set my teeth on edge. Adam also has the physiology that can amplify resonance ---- i.e. he can sing loud --- so, yeah, in all probability, Adam could do this. Let' not suggest it to him, 'K? He just might be ornery enough to want to give it a try, and I would rather just shatter the glass with a hammer than risk the lip freckles. Thank you  I had the same reaction as you to this high notes and also to Durbin in the video you posted and if Adam has to sound like this to shatter a glass than it is another reason (beside that it could harm him) noone should ever suggest him to try it. I love the warmth in his voice. His voice was the first thing I fell in love with. |
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Post by bridgeymah on Jan 6, 2012 6:36:40 GMT -5
I'm late to the BTIKM cover version party... Couldn't listen to the whole thing. The beginning isn't bad, a bit tinny but when he hits the chorus had to stop, whiny straining naisily sounding (something I often find with higher notes in modern male singers)... Yep Adam has kind of ruined me, there are a few out there I like but in general those voices are deeper.
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eri9
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Post by eri9 on Jan 9, 2012 4:05:30 GMT -5
Hi again Cassie! Just a thought about Adam's vocals specifically in a couple of his acoustic performances - Outlaws Of Love and FS Broken Open where I can hear a gorgeous ringing tone in Adam's voice. Especially in OOL you can really hear him placing his voice in the "mask" i.e. resonating thru the nasal cavity.... (do I have that right?) His voice just seems to ring "Everywhere we go, we're looking for the sun.... Nowhere to grow old we're always on the run...." In fact the timbre throught the entire song is just heavenly!! Also in FS Broken Open when he goes up for "I'm all you neee-ee-ee-eed" I've listened that performance (by far my fave BO version) a gazillion times & it still gives me goosebumps!!!! I know his gorgeous tone is not limited to these two performances but they just stand out to me as being something extra special! Would appreciate your thoughts! ETA: Need to go back and listen to Angelina Kalahari's (sp?) discussion on OOL again -I saw you posted it recently |
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Post by cassie on Jan 9, 2012 13:13:11 GMT -5
Hi again Cassie! Just a thought about Adam's vocals specifically in a couple of his acoustic performances - Outlaws Of Love and FS Broken Open where I can hear a gorgeous ringing tone in Adam's voice. Especially in OOL you can really hear him placing his voice in the "mask" i.e. resonating thru the nasal cavity.... (do I have that right?) His voice just seems to ring "Everywhere we go, we're looking for the sun.... Nowhere to grow old we're always on the run...." In fact the timbre throught the entire song is just heavenly!! Also in FS Broken Open when he goes up for "I'm all you neee-ee-ee-eed" I've listened that performance (by far my fave BO version) a gazillion times & it still gives me goosebumps!!!! I know his gorgeous tone is not limited to these two performances but they just stand out to me as being something extra special! Would appreciate your thoughts! ETA: Need to go back and listen to Angelina Kalahari's (sp?) discussion on OOL again -I saw you posted it recently You certainly have good taste. You picked two beautiful examples of that gorgeous clear, ringing tone, and yes, strongly in his mask. Both of these performances have minimalist instrumental backing so it is all about the voice, and the immense control. One of the remarkable things I hear is the lack of any discernible break in his voice. With most singers, there is a distinct difference in the sound of their chest voice and head voice. The head voice has more ring to it, and the chest voice more body or depth. You can hear when they flip back and forth from one to the other. But, not Adam in these songs. The tone or timbre sounds the same all the way up and down. He keeps that tone in his mask and keeps it light and clear even on notes that are low enough he shouldn't be able to sustain such a tone. Seamless. BTW, on other songs he does just the reverse. He has the power of a chest voice in the range where he should not be able to incorporate it without strain. The high notes ring, yes, but with the full power behind them, not the light, ethereal quality we hear in these numbers. And he can pick and choose which tone he uses from song to song, or within one song. Why would I listen to top 40 dregs when I can listen to this? |
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One of the most remarkable to me is the amount and, even more important, balance of resonance and harmonics he can incorporate into a tone. When you listen to some trained singers, they have this dark, dramatic, deep tone. This comes from aiming the tone toward the back of the mouth and throat, and getting a lot of resonance from the chest, and producing lots of low frequency harmonics, but few higher frequency ones.. An example of this can be heard here:
