4.9.16 Snapchat craziness, Idol wraps up, more news

I really try to stay out of these kinds of conversations.  But ignorance can be defined many ways.  Misinterpreting someone's words, whether out of inattentiveness or to bolster one's argument is not the way to present your viewpoint, IMO.  

This is what cassie wrote:
I cannot for the life of me see where she says that "all Christians see Lgbt in that way," as you re-state in your reply.  Start with the actual words of the person you are disagreeing with to support your reply.  Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, credibility slips, and it becomes contentious rather than a rational dialogue. 

Just my opinion, probably shouldn't even engage, and will return to lurking and looking for pictures of that delicious Adam in red.

I think one of the most amazing things about current christianity is the lack of a historical perspective. as early as the early 18th century persecuted protestants fled to the american colonies ( Huguenot). Nothing was learned. First Amendment rights seems to apply only to those religions to which they belong and their view of the world is the right one, well I have had two vodkas and I will sign off before I embarrass myself. slightly drunk, it has been a long day. Oh and thank goodness for spell check. 

Fuck tolerance?
Really?
Are we at a HeWhoCannot amed convention?

Tolerance is the first step to allowing communication and interaction. If a certain behavior or understanding is lacking, as seems in this case, it is important to first have respectful dialogue and education, otherwise nothing will go forward, ever.

There is a difference between a person being hateful, and a person being ignorant. Confrontation in the sense of standing up to someone, only makes sense in the hateful case. In the ignorant case, aggressive verbal confrontation is not helpful in moving anything forward, and additionally it makes the confronting party look intolerant instead. Education, and open dialogue is much more helpful.

If La Porscha, as her sentences indicate, is at that midway point, where she has a certain attitude of tolerance/acceptance, but has her facts and thoughts about LGBT in general still wrong, then tweet-yelling at her and calling her bigoted will only shut her down, because she believes herself to be open-minded and is subsequently met with hostility. Utterly unproductive. Btw, her opinion is the same that at least 50 % of this country here (US) seem to have, so growing up in MS, she probably heard mostly this one opinion all her life, as she is only 22, lived all her life there, and spent most of her adult years, pregnant or raising a child, and getting out of an abusive situation, so maybe she has a bit of catching up to do, and this firestorm hopefully will set that in motion. I don't get a sense of malice, I get a sense of being ignorant and needing to learn a few things.

When the door is open, go through the door, don't burn down the house.

Yes, it is factually wrong to say it is a choice, but for those who believe that it is a choice, shouting at them and boycotting will not change their opinion, it will just make them believe that they are stuck in some kind of hostile new world where they cannot say their opinion anymore. And it leads them to make such exaggerated arguments that Christians are being persecuted here in the US.

Now, while we are at it, talking about being ignorant.

It is highly ignorant to say that Christians are nowhere in the world persecuted. They are in number the worst persecuted religion in the world, both in conflict zones, as well as in generally peaceful, but dictatorial areas, and it is getting worse. The worst persecution is found in Islamic countries, and in authoritarian regimes like North Korea and Eritrea.

Besides Christians, there are obviously many other religions facing persecution. The inner-Islamic conflict is leading to mass persecution of Muslim civilians, not only in Irak and Syria, but also in Iran, Cameroon, Nigeria, Chad, Niger, Pakistan, Libya, and on and on. There is also persecution of Jews, of Bahaii, of Yazidis, of Hindu and many more. So, it is not only Christians. But..

As far as the Christian side is concerned, the incidents of persecution are relentless and unfortunately worsening; churches being burnt, Christians under pressure to convert, mob violence against Christian homes, abduction and rape of Christian girls, anti-Christian propaganda in the media and from Government, discrimination in schools and the workplace… the list goes on.

The last few years have been especially horrific for Christians, as we in 2014-2015 have suddenly seen crucifixions, which the world had not seen since the Armenian holocaust, and we have seen a rise in mass enslavement as a form of religious prosecution. When I grew up, that was thought to be a thing of the past, at least in parts of the world where now it's not.

The list of institutionalized suppression is also growing. From laws forbidding assembly or church service, to disallowing the instruction of children, to suppression of usual civil rights, i.e. to adopt children or to own commercial property, to various levels of injustice in court proceedings, to forbidding Christian reading material, especially Bibles, to demanding additional taxes from Christians, the civil rights impacts are far reaching, and in many cases existing even in countries where this is not known, not expected or theoretically non-existent.


I too find it despicable, when people here in the US, who have all their life been on the side of privilege when it comes to their Christian religion, start shouting persecution, just because somebody dares to state a different opinion or ask for rights for his or her own. They have no idea.
And obviously, the present election cycle has certain candidates openly asking for discrimination of others, i.e. Muslims on religious grounds, whether that is right to enter the country, right to privacy without being spied on, right to assembly, etc. It is a slippery slope, and I would hate to see the Christian community again on the dishing out side of religious persecution, and if the US gets started with that, it is a very wrong step in this world, which is surely to lead others to do it too. Tolerance towards other beliefs and cultures is of the essence to civilized societies, and that is why it really upsets me when I read here: 'fuck tolerance'.

We all have things we understand about this world, and things were we have blind spots. May people always be at least open and tolerant, so that further learning is possible.

You have a more generous spirit than me 

While I've no particular wish to see La' Porscha pilloried for what she said (and I don't think that's what's happening here), I do find her comments offensive and think that it's important to have the dialogue/education you highlight sooner rather than later - sadly, her views were widely disseminated and got a lot of positive reaction from what I can see. Challenging the basis of what she said is an important first step IMHO.