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Post by bamafan on Nov 10, 2016 17:44:45 GMT -5
LindaG....love you back. My political views are just my views. I try not to get too invested in it all....it's just this time seems like this election has gone on for years...which it has and we've all been pulled into "the mess". I didn't feel dispair when Obama went in... more disappointment... but life went on. I voted for Rubio during the primaries, so HeWhoCannot amed wasn't my first choice. Obama, a very articulate and maybe well intentioned man is still an elite progressive....and that I am not. I tend to vote/lean with the GOP because generally they're more conservative. My parents had a small business and my DH has one now...so that's my perspective as well. You're right, HeWhoCannot amed isn't a consistent conservative. I see him as a populist Democrat with some conservative leanings....lower taxes and regulation...pro growth....law and order, etc. I also see a big spender. That's kinda the way he's lived his life and been successful in business.....leverage everything. I know some think he's not been successful because of bankruptcies and taking advantage of tax laws, etc. but I think he's netted out as successful....We'll see what happens with the country. I hope he's successful. You never know. Could be good, could be a train wreck. I'm actually amazed he emerged from the primaries , became the nominee and now The President. Either he's really good at this politics thing, or he was mightly lucky. I do understand people's concerns about the unknown. Just an observation.....my only interaction with progressives is here and on Twitter. Since I am on Twitter and here because of Adam, 99% of my Twitter followers are liberals...many elite progressives. That is no surprise since Adam is one and when politics aren't being discussed....we all get along beautifully. But I have noticed, especially during this political season, that the ridicule, judgment, condescending tone, hatred and vitriol coming from the left is plenty and constant. And there may be similar language and tone coming from the right but I don't see it....since I only have 2 fellow deplorables I follow, and they are keeping quiet. lol I'm not saying that the way I see things is "right"...but it's the way I see things. I'm not gonna change any minds here and I'm not trying to. I think we're all pretty set in our thinking. But one thing's for sure here.....We're all unified in our love and support for Adam....
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ceecee
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Post by ceecee on Nov 10, 2016 17:47:19 GMT -5
I completely disagree with everything Curly said in her post. That's why a Democracy is a good thing, if the people don't like the direction the Country is going they can vote out the party in power.
Just for the record I was talking about giving my employees a raise and yes, I did make a contribution to their health care, although I didn't pay the entire amount. I can no longer afford to contribute to their health care and my employees have had one raise in the past five years. Just this year my personal health insurance went from $378 a month $776 and my deductible went up to $18,0000 a year. The gross amount my business makes has been steady for the past five years, but the amount I net has decreased every year because the cost of doing business has increased every year, much of it due to government regulation. I would be glad to work an eight hour day, but when you run your own business that's not how it works, many times I work long hours or several days in row without a day off. I wonder how public employees would like it if their pay checks went down every year because the cost of the business of running the government had gone up? Not to mention public employees already make more than private sector employees doing the same job.
Services have not been slashed for the poor, there are more people on government assistance than ever before. The problem is the 50% of the people that are working can't support themselves and the other 50% that aren't working. We need jobs to get people back to work in this Country. When more people start paying taxes there will be more money to help the less fortunate. I'm definitely not in the top 2% but I don't believe it's their responsibility to take care of me and my needs. Most of the 2% have worked hard and taken risks and made personal sacrifices to get where they are. They already pay the majority of the taxes.
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Post by smokeyvera on Nov 10, 2016 19:50:03 GMT -5
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Post by LindaG23 on Nov 10, 2016 20:05:13 GMT -5
I am going to exit this discussion now because it is too late for anyone to change their vote.
ceecee, I have a lot of information I could present to you but I doubt it would have made any difference even before Nov 8.
bama, I am so sorry that you took on "deplorable", the one time Clinton said something mean about HeWhoCannot amed voters for which she apologized and yet did not identify with all the many horrible things that HeWhoCannot amed said about women.
It is what it is.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 20:32:07 GMT -5
Agree, Linda. I am exiting also as I would probably say things I might be sorry for. Was even thinking, maybe the thread should be closed now.
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Post by bamafan on Nov 10, 2016 21:02:34 GMT -5
I am going to exit this discussion now because it is too late for anyone to change their vote. ceecee, I have a lot of information I could present to you but I doubt it would have made any difference even before Nov 8. bama, I am so sorry that you took on "deplorable", the one time Clinton said something mean about HeWhoCannot amed voters for which she apologized and yet did not identify with all the many horrible things that HeWhoCannot amed said about women. It is what it is. I should have put a smiley face by deplorable, or a little sarcasm emoji. I never took it personally. I considered myself in the other half :D And yes, HeWhoCannot amed said lots of stupid things about women and others. He's pretty much a douche. I'm not defending him as a person. I would have preferred another person, a more conservative person. I think ceecee and I have rained on y'all's parade. I won't post anymore on this thread and will let you all continue in your despair.
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ceecee
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Post by ceecee on Nov 10, 2016 21:42:14 GMT -5
I agree bamafan. I remember when Obama won the first and the second time I was gutted, but I don't remember going on social media calling him names or protesting in the streets. I'll leave you with the famous words of your leader, "elections have consequences". Imagine the crazy that would ensue if Donald HeWhoCannot amed said in his best elitist voice "elections have consequences".
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 21:50:20 GMT -5
I completely disagree with everything Curly said in her post. That's why a Democracy is a good thing, if the people don't like the direction the Country is going they can vote out the party in power. Just for the record I was talking about giving my employees a raise and yes, I did make a contribution to their health care, although I didn't pay the entire amount. I can no longer afford to contribute to their health care and my employees have had one raise in the past five years. Just this year my personal health insurance went from $378 a month $776 and my deductible went up to $18,0000 a year. The gross amount my business makes has been steady for the past five years, but the amount I net has decreased every year because the cost of doing business has increased every year, much of it due to government regulation. I would be glad to work an eight hour day, but when you run your own business that's not how it works, many times I work long hours or several days in row without a day off. I wonder how public employees would like it if their pay checks went down every year because the cost of the business of running the government had gone up? Not to mention public employees already make more than private sector employees doing the same job. Services have not been slashed for the poor, there are more people on government assistance than ever before. The problem is the 50% of the people that are working can't support themselves and the other 50% that aren't working. We need jobs to get people back to work in this Country. When more people start paying taxes there will be more money to help the less fortunate. I'm definitely not in the top 2% but I don't believe it's their responsibility to take care of me and my needs. Most of the 2% have worked hard and taken risks and made personal sacrifices to get where they are. They already pay the majority of the taxes. I work for a small business owner in a specialty retail store. I haven't had a pay rise in the 3 years I've been there but the prices of most of what we sell has gone up. I get no benefits and my hours are kept under 1000 p.a. so she doesn't have to pay into a pension fund. What are the government regulations that are eating up your profits? I know who our customers are and there is no doubt that that business would boom if there was a rise in the minimum wage. Hillary's plan was extra help for small businesses and more improvements to Obamacare. Let's remember that the Democratic party wanted single payer but the GOP and Insurance Companies would not accept that so Obamacare is the compromise. Your insurance has doubled due to the Insurance Companies wanting to increase their profits. Again you are placing the blame with the wrong party. The high cost of your insurance is due to Insurance and drug company greed. Hillary also said she would do something about the ridiculous deductibles. All HeWhoCannot amed has said is that he will do is repeal Obamacare with no plan. So if you are female, chronically ill or have pre existing conditions you will be at the mercy of the insurance companies. Good luck with that! All you said in your last paragraph is so wrong that I suspect you only get your information from the right wing media. Again you are blaming the wrong people. The welfare Queen is a figment of the Reagan administration's imagination to cover up who was really profiting. There are more people receiving food stamps now than ever because even if they have a job and so many are minimum wage, it isn't enough to live on. Services have been cut in most states. That is a fact. A lot of the 2% inherited their wealth so they didn't work hard for it. It's not just income taxes it's indirect taxes imposed by states that unfairly impact the poor as the use all their income to pay for essentials. The tax burden has never been unfairer and the rich have accountants working to find every loophole to avoid paying anything like HeWhoCannot amed. www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/11/30/us/tax-burden.html?_r=0
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Post by sunrise on Nov 10, 2016 21:56:07 GMT -5
No HeWhoCannot amed didn't say elections have consequences - he said Mexicans are rapists, I grabbed women by the pussy, she was bleeding out of her wherever, how can that face be the next president, I'm calling for a ban of all Muslims, etc. etc. those were his actual words and many many more offensive ones.
ETA I have two teenage daughters and it is very difficult to explain to them that, while the "leader" of our country completely disregards them as people, we need to keep our chins up and continue to be empowered and know we can create change - so I have no regard for people who have made my daughters feel less than - as HeWhoCannot amed clearly has
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Post by Q3 on Nov 10, 2016 22:26:56 GMT -5
I am going to leave this thread for an open discussion about the election but with a suggestion/request. The election is over. No one is going to change their minds.
Let's take our lead from President Obama and President-Elect HeWhoCannot amed who both managed to set aside their own opinions and feelings, and thought about the country today. If these two men, who clearly do not agree on much and who both have many reasons to not like each other and who have almost nothing in come, then we should be able to engage in a civil discussion.
Let's also remember that a majority of American voters who voted did not vote for EITHER Donald J. HeWhoCannot amed or Hillary Clinton. They both got about 47.4%-47.7% of the vote (votes will be counted for a couple of weeks more although the total will not change much).
And to make it even worse, over 90 million eligible voters didn't vote in the 2016 Presidential Election -- more than voted for either candidate.
So be kind. And remember,
"The sun will rise tomorrow." Barrack Obama, 11/8/16
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