junkets
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Post by junkets on Sept 8, 2012 21:11:22 GMT -5
Ok, I can only edit so much on the small window on my phone and can't really use all my mental faculties when all using a thumb to type. I will revisit this when I can get to a laptop. I'll prolly just delete the freaking questionable posts.
Just wanted to say, I really value your opinion and perspective NationalGlampoon. This is new territory for a lot of us. Not just confronting societal attitudes toward LGBT but also trying to express what we mean through message boards, tweets, etc.
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junkets
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Post by junkets on Sept 8, 2012 21:22:03 GMT -5
I find it very sad and ironic that people who complain about Adam allegedly being treated like a bad guy for not being the "right kind of gay", are treating Frank like a bad guy for being the "right kind of gay"... I couldn't agree more! What does it matter if Ocean is gay or bi? Why are people jumping to the conclusion that Frank had a "passing phase" of being gay? All I can figure out is jealousy. Like Adam, Frank can't win for losing in some people's eyes. Ocean didn't "come out in the right way", or he is "too normal" or he isn't "gay enough" or "completely gay" or he is "just bi, not gay". He doesn't have the "bravery that Adam had". Frank Ocean is a black R&B singer, his circumstances are different than Adam's. One is not braver than the other. Argh! No! Not that Frank Ocean had a passing phase. But people view that as a possibility, which makes him more pallatable to the mainstream. Would we have heard of Frank Ocean if he hadn't come out as loving a man? I'm not being sarcastic. I'd like to know. Early on, a lot of fandom couldn't accept the fact that AL was a "gold star" gay man. THEY created the possibility that he might be bi. Saying he thought women were beautiful, that sexy is sexy, or that he occasionally liked to make out with women was NEVER trying to say that he was bi. But f*ck! Just the fact that ppl are so hung up abt the labels and definitions is proving that it prolly WAS/WOULD'VE been a logical career move more plausible. |
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junkets
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Post by junkets on Sept 8, 2012 21:49:15 GMT -5
I was thisclose to deleting my posts and just saying screw it. But I agree, tigerlilly, I DO think it's a conversation worth having. I just feel like I've been misinterpreted. I never said Frank Ocean is bad or not talented, or didn't come out the right way. Or that he is less brave than AL. I DO agree there is a bit of jealously/butthurt. I SAID I felt a little bitter seeing how hard our guy tries and is met with indifference, or, much worse, hostility. Sigh. Time to get off the phone. ETA: edited my contribution to thread. New, improved! Now with less butthurt, speculation, and opinion.  I still stand by my titanium testicles assessment tho  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 21:49:26 GMT -5
I wasn't stating anything about Frank Ocean other than I thought his performance at the VMA's was painful. I haven't watched enough of his other live performances to know if he was just having a bad night or was not a good live singer.
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tigerlily
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Post by tigerlily on Sept 9, 2012 0:44:10 GMT -5
I wasn't stating anything about Frank Ocean other than I thought his performance at the VMA's was painful. I haven't watched enough of his other live performances to know if he was just having a bad night or was not a good live singer. I was looking forward to it because I do like some of his songs, but was shocked at how painful his falsetto was. He had a nice tone and sounded pretty good on the non-falsetto parts. Didn't FO cancel his opening for Coldplay due to vocal problems? Maybe he hasn't fully recovered from whatever issues he had? I wondered if he usually sounds better live and this was not his best. |
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junkets
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Post by junkets on Sept 9, 2012 1:46:51 GMT -5
Allow me to pay penance for any grief I've caused earlier in some small way by offering you first a story and then a video. In the early 1980s, I transferred universities. Somehow I found myself sharing a large, Victorian house with four other guys. Three were gay; 1 was straight. The straight one became my boyfriend (not surprisingly, pickins' were slim, right?) I have seen firsthand several people in a community going through the very painful transition from "typical/acceptable straigt man" to "nope, this won't work; Im totally gay. Some accepted it and celebrated it (notably with Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive). Others took a much more painful route of self-denial, but ultimately and inevitably ending with some guy coming into the house in the middle of the night when we well all presumed to be sleeping to "clarify things a bit." My boyfriend and I called ourselves the "closet straights" and we would always go to a clandestine place to make out so as not to gross anyone out. I myself became quite inurred to two guys making out next to me on the couch when I just trying to get my English Lit homework done on time. The point of this is that I had the unique vantage point to see a lot of people who were first dealing with their sexuality. It was painful but necessary for them. One song that was on frequent play on MTV was a song called "Small Town Boy" by The Bronski Beat. The lead singer has brass ones too. For those of you who haven't seen it, I definitely think it's worthwhile. Very poignant and it always takes me back to those days with the first note. Some people say they wouldn't give up their 1960 for anything. I say I wouldnt give up my early 1980s for anything. Just teens then, with so much to learn, but those couple years blew my mind right open how love comes in many combinations. I'll try to copy the link here, but will try to embed later. Ready to fall asleep. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZhuEGSWfs4&feature=youtube_gdata_player |
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Post by melliemom on Sept 9, 2012 6:35:51 GMT -5
Allow me to pay penance for any grief I've caused earlier in some small way by offering you first a story and then a video. In the early 1980s, I transferred universities. Somehow I found myself sharing a large, Victorian house with four other guys. Three were gay; 1 was straight. The straight one became my boyfriend (not surprisingly, pickins' were slim, right?) I have seen firsthand several people in a community going through the very painful transition from "typical/acceptable straigt man" to "nope, this won't work; Im totally gay. Some accepted it and celebrated it (notably with Gloria Gaynor's I Will Survive). Others took a much more painful route of self-denial, but ultimately and inevitably ending with some guy coming into the house in the middle of the night when we well all presumed to be sleeping to "clarify things a bit." My boyfriend and I called ourselves the "closet straights" and we would always go to a clandestine place to make out so as not to gross anyone out. I myself became quite inurred to two guys making out next to me on the couch when I just trying to get my English Lit homework done on time. The point of this is that I had the unique vantage point to see a lot of people who were first dealing with their sexuality. It was painful but necessary for them. One song that was on frequent play on MTV was a song called "Small Town Boy" by The Bronski Beat. The lead singer has brass ones too. For those of you who haven't seen it, I definitely think it's worthwhile. Very poignant and it always takes me back to those days with the first note. Some people say they wouldn't give up their 1960 for anything. I say I wouldnt give up my early 1980s for anything. Just teens then, with so much to learn, but those couple years blew my mind right open how love comes in many combinations. I'll try to copy the link here, but will try to embed later. Ready to fall asleep. www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZhuEGSWfs4&feature=youtube_gdata_playerWOW this video deserves to 'come out' to today's public.. It is so now. In my eyes there is no competition between Frank and Adam or who is accepted by society more. The discussion is what counts.. and I think opening the black rapper dudes to Frank's honesty is the best thing that can happen. The more popular both he and Adam become the easier for others to follow. They can say Ocean is bi or it was a moment's love interest.. who cares .. It's in the open where it belongs. The more knowledge ,the more tolerance.. I see a light at the end of the tunnel.. IMHO,More and more famous African Americans are embracing same sex marriage openly.. This is a very good thing. Adam remains a pioneer in my mind's eye,he may not get the credit he deserves,but if he helps in the struggle for equality so be it. |
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Post by lambo on Sept 9, 2012 6:48:51 GMT -5
Just wanted to say, I really value your opinion and perspective NationalGlampoon. This is new territory for a lot of us. Not just confronting societal attitudes toward LGBT but also trying to express what we mean through message boards, tweets, etc. I don't like to get involved in it really, I keep my hair out of the US' LGBT issues and never encountered any homophobia here, but I just pointed out the irony cause I found it upsetting. Especially when Adam himself has always gone on about how people should be free to express themselves however they like. |
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Post by nica575 on Sept 9, 2012 6:53:42 GMT -5
just want to address the "jealousy" comment:
(nothing to do with Ocean) - YES, I AM JEALOUS in the worst meaning of the word. I am more that jealous - I am FURIOUS at the fact that the TALENT of Adam's magnitude is not being recognized by the "establishment", that he is not an integral part of the award shows, that he is not mentioned in the media, that his name (if referenced) is invoked to bring up the dress style and not his incredible singing.
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Post by melliemom on Sept 9, 2012 7:09:55 GMT -5
just want to address the "jealousy" comment: (nothing to do with Ocean) - YES, I AM JEALOUS in the worst meaning of the word. I am more that jealous - I am FURIOUS at the fact that the TALENT of Adam's magnitude is not being recognized by the "establishment", that he is not an integral part of the award shows, that he is not mentioned in the media, that his name (if referenced) is invoked to bring up the dress style and not his incredible singing. I agree with you Nica,it is infuriating..I try to calm myself down,but I feel the same way you do. In a way, I believe that Adam has made a decision about which is more important to him,a full honest life or giving everything up for fame. Which would we choose if we had to decide? Adam has to be Adam and if that means radio stations won't play him,or he is sidelined that's just the way it is right now.Hopefully this will change. Adam hasn't even been fully embraced by his own LGBT community.. as he has said he is controversial. All I can do is support him in any way I can.Not everyone is going to love him, I know my family,beside my DH, don't like his music but they love him as a person.SometimesI think my expectation level is too high, and that I must stop comparing him to the top pop singers,etc. IMHO Adam is not like the current pop stars ,he's in a class of his own. His vocals and his songs are a throw back to a different time, a time when talent seemed to rule. Thank goodness he has loyal fans around the world who do appreciate his great voice . To Add .. I listened to a lot of his Queen plus Adam videos last night and cried my eyes out over a couple of songs..for one, Who Wants to Live Forever. There has never been a singer who has moved me as much as Adam. As much as it hurts,because I think he's the very best singer in music today,I can't make everyone agree. sending you  |
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