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Post by mszue on Jun 19, 2012 15:43:56 GMT -5
Dear Lynne and everyone else, I really don't know whether it has been harder for the new-comers or for the ones who have been here from the get-go. It's difficult for both, I guess. I try not to get too emotional / invested. Not to take anything personal. Adapt. Adjust. They say that the ultimate quality of an intelligent person is the ability to adapt to the newly arisen circumstances. I try that, too. "It gets better." I'm a noob, so this is a limited take, but it seems to me that you already have the bases covered, so why encourage further splintering, especially when the splintering is unnecessary and confusing? You already have a numbers thread where people discuss radio, sales, etc., so why create a separate radio thread? Numbers are related. If ncoe succeeds on chr, then the album and single sales will both go up. You can't separate the radio from sales in general, as radio DETERMINES sales. Also, only a few people (not here, sadly) have access to real numbers; do you really want a thread devoted to someone's guesswork lifted from Pulse? Separating radio from the "dark" thread also makes no sense. Many fans fear negativity. If radio numbers stink, then you will need a place for a negative discussion. Why not leave that discussion as is, on the "dark" thread? I really don't want to perpetrate my angst on the numbers and/or radio threads. I'd much rather do so where I know the angst is accepted, won't be judged, and won't disturb tender sensibilities. And then there's the separate philosophical thread. Philosophy determines the way we approach the world and interpret facts. As such, it is involved in EVERY thread. Isolating that is incomprehensible to me. I will try to answer this in a way that reflects my way of thinking only...I speak for nobody else. First of all, I completely agree with this statement: And then there's the separate philosophical thread. Philosophy determines the way we approach the world and interpret facts. As such, it is involved in EVERY thread. Isolating that is incomprehensible to me. What seems to have happened, in my view, is that re the dark side, there is a definite confusing of the two meanings of DARK, and of the act of being CRITICAL. Even Adam got them switched when he moved from the NCOE vid and consequent discussions of his DARK & LIGHT. In the vid one assumes the dark side is the partying, hard-drinking, rebellious, GAY adam...the light side is the serious, non-threatening boy next door Adam. Then he talks of the light side as the partying, dancing, clubbing fun side and the dark side is the serious, sometimes sad, questioning one. No wonder we are all confused!!
On the board...both news thread and then the dark thread....the two definitions of 'critical come into play.CRITICAL: definitions 1. inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily. Synonyms captious, censorious, carping, faultfinding, caviling 3.involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis. Synonyms discriminating, exact, precise. Some of us who love to play in the 3rd house of critical get accused of being in the 1st house...and first get banned to the hidden DARK side...and then when we create a 3rd house anyway, people who want it to stay with the 1st definition feel like their dark side got hijacked [???]...and those who want to retain a place to do criticism the 3rd way have just backed off and moved to the Moon Garden. All are welcome in the moon garden....but be warned it is a place of reflection and questioning... it will get deep at times but not always... This conversation type used to exist on Atop...and even more on Planet Fierce...sadly there has been less and less of it.. Perhaps that is the trajectory of all forums, Idk...this is the first and only artist I have ever stanned and the first and only forum I have regularly read or have posted on. Until the last month or so I have rarely gone anywhere but the news and info page because I love everything and everybody there, in one place. Right now I have 3 pages open...the community is fracturing and becoming more organizational in nature...but perhaps this will all work out for the best...
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gbam
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Post by gbam on Jun 19, 2012 16:09:41 GMT -5
In most cases, I don't think the DJ's are a problem. Overwhelmingly, they seem to really like Adam---I think their hands are tied. When IIHY was out, WKSC basically played it 1-2/day for about two weeks. That was it. But, their afternoon DJ really liked Adam. I remember one time when she introduced the song she called Adam, "wonderfully talented," and said, "he should be huge." She actually said this. Going back further, this same station debuted FYE--shortly after the Seacrest debut---and the morning DJ's were so excited to play the song. The morning guy (who isn't there anymore) said he was going to play the song, but he wasn't going to tell listeners who it was first because of, "preconceived notions." His words. Then they played FYE and all the morning people in the studio just gushed about the song. It looked like it was going to be a great start for Adam on the big Chicago CHR station. Then, basically, the song wasn't spun again. In retrospect, I guess it was "word from above" that stopped it. Bam!! I agree 100% with you! How there are no gay artists on US radio even tells the story more concretely or is it possible only the straight artists are gifted with the gift of having good radio songs? Mind you Scissor Sisters and the other gays acts chart in the UK and other parts of the world, but their songs are not good enough for the US who imports European artists to play every month. Another thing is Adam addressed this in the lyrics of his song 'Trespassing' and verbalized such also in lots of interviews. Radio playing WWFM and IIHY then does not mean they don't have an agenda. And no, Adam did not take too long a break. Hé made an 'aftermath' remix in the fashion of what gets played on TOP 40 that hé promoted to radio, but they refused to play it just like they are refusing to play his singles now. The songs were there, but from FYE to Fever etc, radio had an excuse not to play none of them. WWFM and IIHY going as high on the radio wasn't without its struggles. I remember fans' frustrations even then. Hé has never had it easy with radio.
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lynne
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Post by lynne on Jun 19, 2012 16:23:32 GMT -5
Mszue
Interesting point about Adam's discussion of light and dark on video and about album
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Post by rabbitrabbit on Jun 19, 2012 17:05:28 GMT -5
However, the radio stations may have the power of media behind them but their one and only goal is money and base their direction entirely on guesses of what will gain or cost them more. They are not out to make political statements one way or another. Just the fastest buck. The hate is loudest and certainly making them question whether investing in Adam is worth it. But to yell back only makes their decision seem more like choosing sides in a complex political debate and choosing sides will always cost them something--which is exactly what they don't want. It is easier to just spin someone else's music . When it is no longer a battle, then they will be more likely to jump on board. It starts with society showing they are indifferent to sexuality. When listeners can just listen then there will be no gamble. The radio fight has to be about quality music. That is the sell and fortunately that is where Adam shines. Based on the interviews, it is obvious that sexuality still matters. But based on the #1 album is also is obvious that sexuality is mattering less. When the "moms" are chatting their hateful messages, we should not be responding with "this is great music by a gay guy!" but only, "this is great music!" Much more powerful in my opinion! A very good point. It reminds me of Adam's response to a recent interview (hope I'm remembering this correctly) where he was asked something like if his sexuality cost him on idol and was it an issue with idol. He answered something like 'no, it's an issue within America'. In my mind you can replace 'idol' with 'radio' in the above question. When radio does listener testing they ask how you like a song from very much to not at all. Some listener's answers may reflect their personal biases about the artist, not the song. (I know I had to struggle to be fair to Nickelback when they called me, lol). But how would a number cruncher know what particular personal biases had informed this individual responder's opinion? They just look at the raw data. It's really just about the financial bottom line. Radio PD's aren't going to pay attention to obviously organized out of area bigoted zealots any more than they do when playing Gaga's music. That's why I think it's a red herring for fandom to focus on. If you want to drown out a few negative listener responses, whether from idol fans of others, homophobes, those who object to Adam's vibrato/tone/range/penchant for animal prints, whatever, just send out unrelated positive messages, celebrating the music and the song. Keep it light, keep it positive IMO.
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Post by evamaria on Jun 19, 2012 17:15:02 GMT -5
I will try to answer this in a way that reflects my way of thinking only...I speak for nobody else. First of all, I completely agree with this statement: And then there's the separate philosophical thread. Philosophy determines the way we approach the world and interpret facts. As such, it is involved in EVERY thread. Isolating that is incomprehensible to me. What seems to have happened, in my view, is that re the dark side, there is a definite confusing of the two meanings of DARK, and of the act of being CRITICAL. Even Adam got them switched when he moved from the NCOE vid and consequent discussions of his DARK & LIGHT. In the vid one assumes the dark side is the partying, hard-drinking, rebellious, GAY adam...the light side is the serious, non-threatening boy next door Adam. Then he talks of the light side as the partying, dancing, clubbing fun side and the dark side is the serious, sometimes sad, questioning one. No wonder we are all confused!!
On the board...both news thread and then the dark thread....the two definitions of 'critical come into play.CRITICAL: definitions 1. inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily. Synonyms captious, censorious, carping, faultfinding, caviling 3.involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis. Synonyms discriminating, exact, precise. Some of us who love to play in the 3rd house of critical get accused of being in the 1st house...and first get banned to the hidden DARK side...and then when we create a 3rd house anyway, people who want it to stay with the 1st definition feel like their dark side got hijacked [???]...and those who want to retain a place to do criticism the 3rd way have just backed off and moved to the Moon Garden. All are welcome in the moon garden....but be warned it is a place of reflection and questioning... it will get deep at times but not always... This conversation type used to exist on Atop...and even more on Planet Fierce...sadly there has been less and less of it.. Perhaps that is the trajectory of all forums, Idk...this is the first and only artist I have ever stanned and the first and only forum I have regularly read or have posted on. Until the last month or so I have rarely gone anywhere but the news and info page because I love everything and everybody there, in one place. Right now I have 3 pages open...the community is fracturing and becoming more organizational in nature...but perhaps this will all work out for the best... For me "light" and "dark" are subjective, and prone to change, within individuals (Adam) or within cultures (atop). Though their interpretation of light and dark are changeable, all humans look for causes, explanations, stories they can create around facts to explain the inexplicable. The difference is that some people do it better than others, and this is, imo, where #1 parts ways from #3. Take the fact that, so far today, ncoe has had one chr add. We can note that on the numbers or radio thread. We can go further and say that this is disappointing on the dark thread. We can find reasons for the problem, and finding reasons WILL turn into assigning blame. Assigning blame is not by itself extreme behavior; all historians do it, for a good reason. If an empire fell, then some combination of causes led the way. Those causes directly or indirectly take the blame. So in posts looking for reasons, whether the post belongs in #1 and #3 would be a result of how intelligent and well argued it is, which means the division between #1 and #3 seems cloudy at best.
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Post by rabbitrabbit on Jun 19, 2012 17:29:54 GMT -5
I don't really understand why people seem to think deeper or poetic discussions if they relate to current Adam news shouldn't be in the main thread?
I see the new guidelines as simply practical. The forum has ten times as many lurkers as registered visitors. It's a fairly safe assumption that many come primarily for news. The main thread was getting very long and 'padded' with off-topic stuff that really is unrelated to current Adam news, or even past Adam news. This tends to result in posters not having the time to read the thread, so posting the same news item over again which kind of increases confusion. Legislating simple thread courtesy is always awkward, and is often in the eye of the beholder, which means you have to be specific about defining what is off-topic, which again is hard to do without stepping on someone's toes.
What threads exist and what culture they develop is an-process thing. I'll just wait til the dust settles and then see what interests me.
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Post by mszue on Jun 19, 2012 18:23:27 GMT -5
I will try to answer this in a way that reflects my way of thinking only...I speak for nobody else. First of all, I completely agree with this statement: And then there's the separate philosophical thread. Philosophy determines the way we approach the world and interpret facts. As such, it is involved in EVERY thread. Isolating that is incomprehensible to me. What seems to have happened, in my view, is that re the dark side, there is a definite confusing of the two meanings of DARK, and of the act of being CRITICAL. Even Adam got them switched when he moved from the NCOE vid and consequent discussions of his DARK & LIGHT. In the vid one assumes the dark side is the partying, hard-drinking, rebellious, GAY adam...the light side is the serious, non-threatening boy next door Adam. Then he talks of the light side as the partying, dancing, clubbing fun side and the dark side is the serious, sometimes sad, questioning one. No wonder we are all confused!!
On the board...both news thread and then the dark thread....the two definitions of 'critical come into play.CRITICAL: definitions 1. inclined to find fault or to judge with severity, often too readily. Synonyms captious, censorious, carping, faultfinding, caviling 3.involving skillful judgment as to truth, merit, etc.; judicial: a critical analysis. Synonyms discriminating, exact, precise. Some of us who love to play in the 3rd house of critical get accused of being in the 1st house...and first get banned to the hidden DARK side...and then when we create a 3rd house anyway, people who want it to stay with the 1st definition feel like their dark side got hijacked [???]...and those who want to retain a place to do criticism the 3rd way have just backed off and moved to the Moon Garden. All are welcome in the moon garden....but be warned it is a place of reflection and questioning... it will get deep at times but not always... This conversation type used to exist on Atop...and even more on Planet Fierce...sadly there has been less and less of it.. Perhaps that is the trajectory of all forums, Idk...this is the first and only artist I have ever stanned and the first and only forum I have regularly read or have posted on. Until the last month or so I have rarely gone anywhere but the news and info page because I love everything and everybody there, in one place. Right now I have 3 pages open...the community is fracturing and becoming more organizational in nature...but perhaps this will all work out for the best... For me "light" and "dark" are subjective, and prone to change, within individuals (Adam) or within cultures (atop). Though their interpretation of light and dark are changeable, all humans look for causes, explanations, stories they can create around facts to explain the inexplicable. The difference is that some people do it better than others, and this is, imo, where #1 parts ways from #3. Take the fact that, so far today, ncoe has had one chr add. We can note that on the numbers or radio thread. We can go further and say that this is disappointing on the dark thread. We can find reasons for the problem, and finding reasons WILL turn into assigning blame. Assigning blame is not by itself extreme behavior; all historians do it, for a good reason. If an empire fell, then some combination of causes led the way. Those causes directly or indirectly take the blame. So in posts looking for reasons, whether the post belongs in #1 and #3 would be a result of how intelligent and well argued it is, which means the division between #1 and #3 seems cloudy at best. Actually, I was trying to explain why I thought some THOUGHT posts belonged in different places, not that they did. The whole point I was attempting to make is the very opposite of the conclusion you made which means I did not do a good enough job of explaining myself. A CRITICAL analysis of anything, using def'n 3, has absolutely no direct relationship to whether the final conclusion of that analysis is positive or negative. It simply alludes to the fact that a critical analysis must take all factors into consideration and balance then against each other looking for patterns, reasons, correlations, etc. Therefore if one were to do a critical analysis of Trespassing [just the song] one would have to look at each of the writers of the song, where they come from, the similarities and differences in their background AS THEY MAY REASONABLY HAVE IMPACTED THE LYRICS and perhaps the melody and rhythm of the song, the timing of the writing, etc. If one were analyzing the SUCCESS of the song then a lot of other things come in to play such as production values, release details, impact of promotion, etc. If one were analyzing the song TRACK...then one would bring into play Adam's vocals, training, techniques, his background as it impacted the lyrics could be legitimate...ditto Pharell and his background, how they came together to create this track...yada yada....NONE OF THESE details in any way automatically end up as a negative analysis... Sorry for getting so pedantic here....but 1 and 3 are so far apart. When we see media make those annoying quick wrong assumptions about Adam we get frustrated and angry and mentally shout 'why don't they do their homework' and put a little effort into their interviews. That homework is what I mean by CRITICAL thinking/analysis/inquiry. Yes, it has its home in academe....but most reputable journalists today have Comm or journalism degrees and know the difference....that is their job....we should not have to do it for them!! Man...I think I need a rusty nail and re-watch the ema performance...whew...sorry...
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Post by jean1010 on Jun 19, 2012 18:39:51 GMT -5
Just visited the numbers thread so I hot footed over here just to say I hate how US radio has make or break power in the music business especially in Adam's genre Pop. I am so thankful that he has the Queen gigs to help him in Europe and UK.
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gbam
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Post by gbam on Jun 19, 2012 18:56:57 GMT -5
Just visited the numbers thread so I hot footed over here just to say I hate how US radio has make or break power in the music business especially in Adam's genre Pop. I am so thankful that he has the Queen gigs to help him in Europe and UK. I really wish the gay community can challenge the status quo by asking why there are no gay artists on the radio and why only straight artists are gifted with the gift of having songs good enough for radio. Someone needs to start exposing the dirty biz called radio, so that a change might eventually come.
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tigerlily
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Post by tigerlily on Jun 19, 2012 19:00:40 GMT -5
Just visited the numbers thread so I hot footed over here just to say I hate how US radio has make or break power in the music business especially in Adam's genre Pop. I am so thankful that he has the Queen gigs to help him in Europe and UK. I really wish the gay community can challenge the status quo by asking why there are no gay artists on the radio and why only straight artists are gifted with the gift of having songs good enough for radio. Someone needs to start exposing the dirty biz called radio, so changes might eventually come. Do bisexuals count? Are they in the gay community? There was a gay artist on the radio two years ago with a couple of songs- WWFM and IIHY!
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