sugaree
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Post by sugaree on May 6, 2013 9:08:24 GMT -5
Just wanted to stop in and say hi. I could chime in on the minstrel discussion, but my opinion(s) would not be popular - surprise surprise ![]() . So I'll leave it with a warm hello and that it's nice to stop by and see people talking in here again. xoxo |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 10:04:08 GMT -5
sugaree hey its the point. point/counter point!!! Would love to hear your view point. Obviously Will I AM has different one and since he seems to be intelligent and not belligerent would love to know where he is coming from. And perhaps you have the key.
Junnie third generation!
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restless
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Equality. Duh. (credit to STRFKR)
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Post by restless on May 6, 2013 15:13:29 GMT -5
Holst said "Finally the tide is turning for the LGBTQ community. It's no longer okay (at least not PC) to make fun of them."
Do you watch Saturday Night Live? And just the other night on the episode of the Mindy Project, (the holistic md was stretching out the ob doc pre marathon in a homoerotic way with looks and comments from bystanders). There still exists that "humor" of straight men in an "awkward" moment of an action that is construed as "gay". Or the recent Office where Andy's sexuality was being punked online and the lengths he went to to prove he was not gay. And it is supposed to be funny!?
Perhaps I am hypersensitive or don't share much of the humor I see on tv and some movies.
Oh yeah and the networks have got soooo progressive in their portrayal of gay characters. Until I see two guys making out the way I have to endure straight couple displays I will not be satisfied. A hug before bed or a platonic peck on the cheek is insulting to me. Sure it is better than it used to be, but we have a long way to go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2013 15:40:41 GMT -5
restless, you know what I was surprised about? The villain in the new James Bond movie Skyfall. Mostly I loved the movie, and Javier Bardem is a great actor, but I was really surprised by the scene where he had James tied up and essentially threatened to rape him. I thought, really???? We're going there? Gays as predators?
It felt so tacked on, too. The character wasn't otherwise portrayed as a stupid man, and I can't think of a stupider thing to do.
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Holst
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Post by Holst on May 6, 2013 18:36:18 GMT -5
Sugaree, I, too, would like to her your opinion. You've got me really curious now.
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annala
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Post by annala on May 7, 2013 16:36:17 GMT -5
Well, first of all, I'm really glad that the Moon Garden is back in business again. I've missed the discussions here.
So, I'm chiming in on Will I Am's performance on American Idol. I had to look it up on YouTube, but I liked it, and I did not find it demeaning - in fact, I saw it more as "in your face". It was a highly stylized performance done in the spirit of the Great Gatsby era of the 1920's during the time when minstrel shows were an accepted form of entertainment. And I think I understand the spirit in which it was presented - an anachronism of a time past - but also a part of American culture of the time.
I have a wonderful, dog-eared book at home which I saved from being discarded after my mother died. The book, The American Songbag, by Carl Sandburg is a sort of "ragbag song history of America" - and Carl Sandburg dedicated the 30 years he spent compiling this book to "those unknown singers who made songs out of love, fun, grief - and to those many other sinners who kept those songs as living things of the heart and mind - out of love, fun, grief." The book a truly marvelous compilation of the heritage of earlier American music, including among the many facets of American music, the folk music from Appalachia and the deeply-rooted blues from the early African experience in this country. A section on minstrelsy is included in this book. To quote another source, "Jazz History Time Line", which I found on the web - "Despite the more troubling aspects of minstrelsy, it was a place where European and African traditions met and mingled in a heady, racist, and decidedly American stew. It is also the place where many jazz performers, including Bessie Smith, got their start."
So that's my take on this. Will I Am knew what he was doing, and I appreciated his intelligent and entertaining presentation.
I'm also so glad I saved this book - Carl Sandburg's ,The American Songbag - and even though the pages are ragged, brittle and falling apart, it's one of the most treasured things I have.
Good to hear from all of you again - and hope to be a more active contributor in the future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2013 17:05:08 GMT -5
I am envious of your "American Songbag," annala. That sounds like the kind of book I would love. I will have to find a used one!
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annala
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Post by annala on May 7, 2013 19:36:26 GMT -5
Juniemoon - The American Songbag was published in 1927, so I'm pretty sure it may be out of print, but it might be worth searching online - It's truly a treasure.
BTW - I had a typo in there. When quoting Carl Sandburg about "fun, love, grief", the quote should have read "singers". not "sinners".
Also, Sugaree, I'd be interested in your response too. If you noted, I did not find Will I Am's performance demeaning at all. Instead I felt it reflective of the era he was portraying, and I found a subtle irony with a true black person portraying a "black-face" singer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 11:05:30 GMT -5
annala I think you have the answer. The history for the music is long and they were doing a Gatsby commercial all night as I understand it. Really didn't watch all of Idol. It would have been part of the era. As we went through the 60s a lot of things became racist that I don't think really were. But I guess, as in all changes, the pendulum has to swing too far before it finds its center. My favorite movie as a child was Song of the South. Blue bird on my shoulder! It fell out of favor as many considered it demeaning and racist. The stories themselves were actually tales that had their source with the slaves and Harris recounted them. When were in New Orleans a few years ago we visited Laurel Plantation. www.neworleansonline.com/directory/location.php?locationID=2135The docent was very good with her history, unlike some of the other plantations, and said Harris had spent time there with the slaves recording the stories. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2013 17:14:15 GMT -5
grandduchess, we went to Laura plantation a couple of years ago too. Fascinating place. We also took a sister tour of the city of New Orleans that focused on the Creole culture. The whole thing was really eye-opening in terms of race.
The point being ... it's fascinating to learn and understand about the past. Some people want to go around incensed about the past all the time and what good does it do? Then as now, most people had good will and were just trying to make it in a world they didn't make. By understanding we can start to move forward, because we know where we were starting from.
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