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Post by nica575 on Jun 22, 2012 8:18:02 GMT -5
Greetings! Lovely posts Nikki and Mika (and everyone). Warrior women and Hindu goddesses took me back to the sense memory of living in an Indian ashram, and having the duty to regularly help wash a 15 foot tall statue of Durga mounted on a tiger in the wee hours of the morning with warm rose water. She became a symbol to me of inner courage and fierce love. I remembering clambering barefoot up onto the slippery back of the tiger with my bucket, and the careful balancing act required to reach the weapons she brandished in her hands. On the one hand I knew that I was in a precarious physical position high above the ground, and standing on the back of a tiger, even one frozen in mid-stride, is never to be taken lightly.  On the other hand, a clear inner voice said 'I won't let you fall'. Sometimes I wonder if Adam feels like he's both standing on the back of the tiger with all the danger, exposure, and excitement that entails, and hearing the inner voice of divine reassurance. I hope so. Mika - great illustration of how the experience of joy can sometimes transmute through over-investment into job. I've definitely felt it. But what often ends up happening is I save reading about Adam and watching his videos until the end, like desert, and then the joy wells up again. I love the coining of the fandom word 'bert'. It's a noun (we are 'berts'), but also an active verb. I'm berting, I want to bert, we are berting. To bert is to revel in the joy. To laugh, to be awestruck, to be moved, to be turned on, to be intrigued by Adam and his music. To be in the moment as observer and participant, as Adam is almost always present and in the moment. ...balancing on the back of a tiger....sounds like a description of life...some cling to that back...some slide and fall off...some sit comfortably...some stand....and some dance making the tiger move faster! We all know which one is Adam. He is the goddess that makes the tiger leap, he does not bear arms but instead he bears the voice and the spirit and the gift of shining colors...he makes us bert... |
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Holst
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Post by Holst on Jun 22, 2012 9:10:58 GMT -5
Thanks to all you eloquent posters here. I not near as philosophical, well read, etc., as some of you. However, many in my family are, so I'm very interested and accustomed to the back and forth of big ideas.
I'm glad someone posted the kd Lang video(s) back a bit. I went down that rabbit hole for a bit. I don't really know much about her, but her's is a voice that does stuff to my deep inside. Pretty much she and Adam do this. The sound of her voice almost makes me cry--and I don't care what the lyrics are. It's simply the soothing sound, the vibrato, the expressiveness. I'll go check out some more of her music.
If Adam ended up having a career like hers, that would be fine. She's not big in radio play (was she ever??? I don't know). But she has a viable career and, by the looks of that live video, plays gigs that are up close. One of the things I haven't been looking forward to if Adam becomes a superstar is arena concerts. Like many of us, I'd rather see him in smaller venues.
Thanks for this cozy place.
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sugaree
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Post by sugaree on Jun 22, 2012 9:31:45 GMT -5
Talk about two voices....................
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2012 9:39:02 GMT -5
rabbitrabbit, I loved your post. I always have seen you as one of the most astute numbers gurus, as well as the request queen. Thanks for letting me see this other side of you and hope to see more of you here!  hi holst!! *waves* Wow, this topic is really sucking me in. mika, I loved your post about Adam and joy. That was what drew me to Adam in the first place too. The opportunity to have fun again! Adam was like a big glittery fairy creature with the voice of an angel and a go-to-hell attitude and being swept along with him was just fun and an adventure!  So what have we become? It seems to me that before the Internet, there was almost no such thing as "fandom" as we know it today. Unless you were extremely motivated to congregate (ie, you were a Deadhead), the opportunities for collective action were fairly miniscule. It could be lonely if you were the only fan ... on the other hand, you had room for your private passion and emotional relationship with your love. You wouldn't even know about things like spins and record sales or charts or the like. Elvis probably had the most organized fandom in the business. They kept in touch via old fashioned newsletters to meet up for concerts, to exchange bootlegs, and occasionally to raise money for Elvis's charities. They did take collective action, such as showing up to attend Elvis's movies, often more than once. Still, you could easily be a fan of The King, like my mom and millions of others, and not even know or care that these groups existed. She could just put on her copy of American Trilogy before the kids got home from school, and let the tears well, and not even know that some smart guy in New York City or somewhere had made fun of the song and the sentiment and Elvis's white suit and his weight and his regional accent and his habit of thanking the audience, and feel defensive and outraged. And she certainly didn't have to worry if she walked out of "Spinout" or "Roustabout" and said to her friend, "That sucked," (or whatever was the 1965 equivalent), that somehow her words were undermining The King or infecting everyone with doubt and shame. So much has changed with technology! For one thing, with the Internet, we are not merely consumers of Adam's work. We are clearly producers as well. We produce posts, blogs, commentary, fan art, fan fiction. We have a collective identity. We are "Glamberts." We vote. We log on and see exhortations to "commit to these actions once per day!" Those who don't act self-identify as "bad fans." We hear whether someone approves of Adam or doesn't and we have an emotional reaction to it. We have access to Adam's performances and outfits almost in real time and feel compelled to formulate a response to them. Back in the day, someone like my mom might have had the chance to cut out a picture of Elvis from the newspaper a couple of times a year and stick it on the fridge until it got yellow. She never saw him live, not even once. She only knew if he had a new record because she saw it at the store. It is almost irresistible to draw together with other fans to celebrate Adam and his darling joyful persona and his great music and amazing ability to perform. But with it comes an investment in fandom itself and its social hierarchy that can undermine our own appreciation of his music, talent, accomplishments, and the reasons for being a fan in the first place. It seems to me that we all still grappling not just with this fandom, but with the radical impact of the Internet on all of our lives and communication, right down to the way we experience joy (or dampen it) or appreciate art.
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annala
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Post by annala on Jun 22, 2012 10:21:44 GMT -5
to Jamie and Juniemoon -
Just wanted to say I love the Moon Garden - I came upon it just by happenstance and now it has become my go-to place. I first check the Daily News & Info thread about what's new with Adam, but then I come here for relaxation and the thoughtful insights, discussions and opinions expressed here by all of you.
This morning, I especially appreciated your post, Mika, on becoming an overly-invested "shareholder"-type of fan, and beginning to lose out on the simple joy of what makes Adam so special in the first place.
And, Sugaree, thanks for bringing over the kd lang-Roy Orbison performance of "Cryin". I know I've said this more than once - but please let there be such a collaboration with Adam in the future. And, BTW, did any of you check out the video of Roy Orbison's Black and White Night doing "Pretty Woman" - I've watched that video countless times - wow! - wish I had been there that night.
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Jun 22, 2012 11:22:28 GMT -5
I watched that 'Crying' vid with kd and Orbison and fell down a kd hole for a while....but this vid brought me up short!! lol. kd lang is definitely one of the great duet diva's!!!
I just could not resist even thought it is not very 'moongardeny' ;D ;D
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 22, 2012 12:45:51 GMT -5
Mszue, that' video is totally moongardeny, imho, especially as the denizens(moon gardeners? Moonflowers?) talk about, remember the point of it all. I was reading something by Richard Rohr yesterday and he said, in part, "The perennial tradition is not just a metaphysic, it’s not just a psychology; it also becomes an ethic that places a person’s final end in seeking union with all things. This is the simple goal of our existence. If your religion is not helping you to do that, then you’d better get a new religion.". He goes on to say how western religion, especially in North America, really has missed out on this and that's why so many are searching for something else, or else distracting themselves, numbing out or or going into mere survival modes of being.
Reading junie and Mika's posts on joy and how the joy Adam seems to embody and channel drew us and inspired us, but how it may be lost in fandom that becomes drudgery, obligation, anxiety or joyless work reminded me of Rohr's words ... Adam is for joy, entertainment is for fun and I think even those of us who perhaps seem to have a more"serious" or thoughtful approach to all things Adam do it because, for us, that's what's fun. And if it's not, then I think Adam would be the first to giggle and tell us to find something that does help us enjoy life more.
So the k d Lang and Dame Edna vid ... Perfect! K d has always had a hugely playful side, right from her first award nomination at the Canadian Junos when she capered up to the stage in a wedding dress to accept the award for most "promising" new artist (she said who promises more than a bride?). She has been lending her voice to weightier material lately and it was wonderful to see her here playing gleefully again. Adam is not just joyful, he's fearlessly playful, and I adore that in people.
I have been reading the posts on gender and other paradoxes with enjoyment, too ... I got sucked into a fascination with philosophy after becoming thoroughly stuck trying to figure out whether we have free will or not in my 20s. Years later, I still don't know, but I'm aware nobody else really does either ... Anyway, as I struggled with free will and determinism as this either/or, both-can't-be-true thing, it had the effect of a koan on me, exhausting my mind in order to allow me to open up to a not so much non rational but transrational possibility? What if, in some way I'm cognitively limited to perceiving, both are true? Not "either/or" but "both/and".
I think this applies to people like k d and Adam as it relates to fluidity of gender ... Well, it applies to all of us but they're way more comfortable expressing it than most of us. Another, even more so, is Antony Hegarty (Antony and the Johnsons), whom I first discovered singing a shattering version of Saint Leonard's "If It Be Your Will". I went down a rabbit hole with Antony's name on it last night for a while ... Lots of fascinating thoughts, and his description of transgender children sure sounded like Adam as a child.
Finally ... And sorry for the length and rambling ... Something that makes all three of these singers so compelling feels to me like Presence in their voices ... Does that make any sense? I don't know if it is themselves living, reaching out in their song, the way they give themselves, are totally present in the song, or if they're channelling something more universal, but wow! I sent the Tony Bennett/k d link to a friend the other day and she replied that k d reminded her of Wayne Newton and sent me a link of one of his performances, daring me to listen to it eyes closed and not notice the similarity. She was right, but ... There was no Presence in the Newton vocal for me ... Maybe I'm just tuned to a different frequency.
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lynne
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Post by lynne on Jun 22, 2012 12:58:58 GMT -5
MikaBeautiful post...simple, powerful and wise.. What caught me up in Adam was the joy; I feel it so powerfully when Adam sings. I think it is because he feels it first that he can transmit that to us. His "Are you having fun?" echoes that inner joy. I am really looking forward to seeing him at Costa Mesa and FS. The "job" parts of being an Adam fan, voting and requesting, are the way I try to pay Adam back for the joy he brings into my life. Like Rabbit, I do that first and then I sit back and enjoy all the things I love, the music, the man, and places like this, where I enjoy them both with good company. 
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Jun 22, 2012 13:18:57 GMT -5
mirages....I loved your post. I was not aware of Richard Rohr and at first glance, thought you were writing of Richard Rorty until I realized either my memory was failing me badly, or I had made a mistake [which was the case]...but while very different, you might like this quote I cherry-picked from wikepedia:
"Nothing is sacred to Rorty the ironist. Asked at the end of his life about the 'holy', the strict atheist answered with words reminiscent of the young Hegel: 'My sense of the holy is bound up with the hope that some day my remote descendants will live in a global civilization in which love is pretty much the only law."[5] My field of study was/is Communication and I taught ethics for some time...hence the Rorty interest and connection.
I love the names and links I am referred to, particularly in this thread...I will absolutely check out both Rohr and Anthony Hegarty. When we talk about 'present' musicians, I think it is his artisty and 'presence' that really makes Rufus Wainwright the amazing entertainer he is...and his ability to be utterly irreverent and honest!
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mirages
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Post by mirages on Jun 22, 2012 14:56:25 GMT -5
mirages....I loved your post. I was not aware of Richard Rohr and at first glance, thought you were writing of Richard Rorty until I realized either my memory was failing me badly, or I had made a mistake [which was the case]...but while very different, you might like this quote I cherry-picked from wikepedia: "Nothing is sacred to Rorty the ironist. Asked at the end of his life about the 'holy', the strict atheist answered with words reminiscent of the young Hegel: 'My sense of the holy is bound up with the hope that some day my remote descendants will live in a global civilization in which love is pretty much the only law."[5] My field of study was/is Communication and I taught ethics for some time...hence the Rorty interest and connection. I love the names and links I am referred to, particularly in this thread...I will absolutely check out both Rohr and Anthony Hegarty. When we talk about 'present' musicians, I think it is his artisty and 'presence' that really makes Rufus Wainwright the amazing entertainer he is...and his ability to be utterly irreverent and honest! Funny you should mention Rufus ... I spent some time with him last night, too, and discovered that in addition to having released his first attempt at radio friendly music (produced by Mark Ronstad, interestingly ... I think Rufus is mostly trying to pay for his opera habit, tho, not become a pop icon), that he had also set some Shakespeare sonnets to music, including Sonnet 20 which has a lot of relevance in terms of gender fluidity ... I nearly posted a YouTube of him performing it here, but the vid was long, with Rufus' own Cigarettes and Chocolate tacked on the end ... But let me know if anyone would like me to fetch it, because I also love the linkages I discover here ... I'll check out Rorty now ... that was a good quote, tho it reminded me more of Kant's ethics than Hegel ... but I haven't read enough Hegel. Mika got me going on Yeats again, and I discovered that Mike Scott of the Waterboys has set a bunch of his poems to music (collected as An Appointment with Mr Yeats). I've been hugely ignorant of music for decades, but Adam and his fans have given me a way back in, and a much more open way to listen ... Love it! I couldn't see the second Rufus vid you posted on my iPad ... what is it? The first song so reminds me of an icon who's getting weary of being expected to be Dionysius all the time, who wants to spend a little time being just a guy. And yet Rufus can't he;p being extraordinary. |
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mszue
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Post by mszue on Jun 22, 2012 15:12:08 GMT -5
I am sorry you can't watch it...wonder why...I copied the blurb under it:
Rufus Wainwright mimes to his recording of Judy Garland's "Get Happy" at the Glastonbury Festival, 22nd June 2007. It was his second attempt at it as the sound went down half-way through the first attempt. The dancers are actually his band.
It comes from a 'set up' he did of copying Judy Garlands famous version in a come-back concert she had done...singing Get Happy. There are so many layers of irony and meaning here....iconic example of musical polysemy...love to see Adam come out with something like this some time....though you could have fun with his numerous versions of CIGC I suppose...but they were not as purposeful as this is...
I've seen numerous versions of it....shows his outrageousness..and sense of humour. The first time I heard his "My phones on vibrate...for you" I just cracked up!!! He is a very brave man...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2012 15:42:14 GMT -5
Would love to hear thoughts on this article: What Happens If No One Pays for Music? www.salon.com/2012/06/20/steal_this_album_what_happens_if_no_one_pays_for_music/Excerpt: But Lowery’s argument – despite a few misspellings and the jumble of well-considered and rushed thoughts that the Web all but requires – is one of the most important meditations on the state of music in our time. He drops some crucial statistics here, among them that “Recorded music revenue is down 64 percent since 1999,” and that “The number of professional musicians has fallen 25 percent since 2000.” He refers indirectly to something equally important: The money being spent on music is not ending up in the hands of musicians, or even labels, or members of the creative class, from the record store clerk to a label president. It's going to Apple – which could, thanks to iTunes, buy every surviving label with pocket change – and other technology companies. |
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Post by glittergma on Jun 22, 2012 21:23:03 GMT -5
sorry, i think my tiger screw the page up,,, LOL! It's ok, it was worth it to see holst do all that *bumping*!!  ETA: Plus I love tigers!! 8-) |
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nikki
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Post by nikki on Jun 23, 2012 9:33:30 GMT -5
Would love to hear thoughts on this article: What Happens If No One Pays for Music? www.salon.com/2012/06/20/steal_this_album_what_happens_if_no_one_pays_for_music/Excerpt: But Lowery’s argument – despite a few misspellings and the jumble of well-considered and rushed thoughts that the Web all but requires – is one of the most important meditations on the state of music in our time. He drops some crucial statistics here, among them that “Recorded music revenue is down 64 percent since 1999,” and that “The number of professional musicians has fallen 25 percent since 2000.” He refers indirectly to something equally important: The money being spent on music is not ending up in the hands of musicians, or even labels, or members of the creative class, from the record store clerk to a label president. It's going to Apple – which could, thanks to iTunes, buy every surviving label with pocket change – and other technology companies. First of all, thank you very much Junie for posting this article and for your previous post on fandom, which I was quietly mulling over before I read this. What stood out were two statements that framed the debate for me. On the one hand, the ultimate statement of "generation ME": "All I require is the ability to listen to what I want, when I want and how I want it. Is that too much to ask?", Versus a truly compelling rebuttal by David Lowery: "You have grown up in a time when technological and commercial interests are attempting to change our principles and morality. Rather than using our morality and principles to guide us through technological change, there are those asking us to change our morality and principles to fit the technological change–if a machine can do something, it ought to be done. Although it is the premise of every “machines gone wild” story since Jules Verne or Fritz Lang, this is exactly backwards."
I really enjoyed David's full response: thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-white-at-npr-all-songs-considered/No matter which way I look at it, I can only agree with him - we can call it by so many other names, blame technology etc, but in the end, what is happening is the sum total of each individual's moral choice. Would I, growing up in my son's generation (he's 17), make different choices? I would hope the answer is "yes", but that is by no means certain. The consequences are dire for individual artists. It makes me incredibly sad. To me, artists, and the artistic spirit should be cherished and valued. And for the music industry, less profit equals less artists and less diversity of artistic expression as companies try to hedge their bets on "safe" artists making "safe" music. We have this debate around Adam's artistry on a regular basis already. I didn't know anything about how widespread illegal music downloading is and I found this gem from none other than Sean Parker talking about Spotify: www.quora.com/How-many-songs-are-legally-downloaded-each-year-and-how-many-songs-are-illegally-downloadedSo it's roughly 4 billion legal to every 4-10 trillion illegal downloads annually. I'm not sure if this is for the US only or worldwide. It's a wide guesstimate, but I was truly staggered by those numbers. My God, that's 1:10,000 illegal downloads using the 4 trillion estimate, and 1:25,000 for 10 trillion. (Using the US definitions of billion and trillion). And only 30% of the world is online so far. It was also interesting, but hardly surprising, that Sean framed the debate in terms of, "Well, anti-piracy laws have been an abject failure" (so Spotify is now free to screw the artists), rather than the individual, moral imperative that David speaks of. I couldn’t resist my own guesstimate of what Adam's "real" sales might look like in a less technologically-enabled world. Assuming the numbers are for the US, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Adam's sales would be 1:10, so around the 1.2 million mark so far. A hollow calculation, I know. I have multiple copies of Trespassing that I give away to people, which is one way I like to support him. The other day I gave a copy to a lovely guy in his late 20's that regularly makes me my morning coffee. We chat frequently about the dance clubs he also works in. He already likes Adam but didn't know his new CD was out. As soon as I gave him the CD, he immediately put it on the cafe's sound system. By the end of Shady, he'd made arrangements with 2 of the other staff to download the disc to their PCs. >:( It puts into perspective the effort needed now to really get a "sale". I also really liked what you wrote about technology and the changing nature of being a fan. Particularly that of being a producer. Marketer could well be in the mix. Technology has also driven a whole new emphasis on relationship and the rise of the notion of customer (in this case fan) as marketer like never before - of consciously trying to find ways to establish a depth of emotional buy-in to the degree that people voluntarily become active and willing "promoters" of the brand/product/artist. In the music business, artists now more than ever need this “gold” category of fans to help them survive. In Adam's case, reality TV singing contests build that emotional investment unashamedly and rapidly; the back stories, viewer voting to play a vital part in launching someone’s career. Many of the behaviours (like voting) that have been actively “shaped” during the program spill over into the next phase of the person's career (to, for example make requests on radio). I’m not meaning to sound cynical and I’m not saying for one moment that Adam doesn’t genuinely respect and value his fans. I'm not saying that we are being mindlessly manipulated and don’t have our own genuine reasons for being Adam's fan. And I'm definitely in the joy camp. But it is a business, and companies are actively pursing this way of looking at fans - so maybe a “buyer beware” warning label might be appropriate. ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2012 13:12:10 GMT -5
nikki, thank you for this thoughtful response. I held off on giving my own thoughts about the article to see what others felt. I have written two well-reviewed books over the years (not best-sellers lol) but the sales, however modest, fell off to nothing about two years ago except for Kindle. I watched an interview with a local bookseller not long ago who was closing his doors. He said basically no one would buy a book now at any price.
That was what struck me -- at any price. People say they want creative content but they don't want to pay for it. I've had friends ask me if I'm going to do another book and I just kind of put them off. The truth is that I'd like to, but exactly how? More people read my posts every day on Adamtopia than have read my books.
It's kind of like what happened with sex after birth control came along -- there was so much free stuff that it ruined it for it for the shady ladies. LOL. Seriously, I really don't know what the answer is.
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