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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 0:20:29 GMT -5
Hmmm. So many great posts to read and I have semi random, tired thoughts regarding many of them.
The question junie posed, why should we have to justify our stanning...well I am justifying my stanning to myself in the same way I weigh decisions for many daily things: that's a lot of more to spend on a new sweater but it will have a lot of uses. Which is more important, being home when my kids get home for school or stopping by to check on grandma? It's ok to treat my daughter to pop because she's had a lot of milk today, etc...and considering the quantity of time stanning can take I think it is natural to weigh its frivolity.
In terms of justifying it "publicly", It's hard for me to compared it to being a sports fan because what we are talking about is not just time but emotions. It is for me alone to decide how I spend my me time and unless my husband thinks I am neglecting someone I don't have to justify with him what I do to relax or enjoy myself. But truthfully, when we are talking about having another person enter my "care about deeply" list then I think he has a right to understand the reasons. If I felt there was a way for him to do so, then I wouldn't hesitate to explain. But as I said, how can you make this sound sane to someone who isn't under Adam's spell?
Mika made a good point by saying we should surround ourselves with people who understand obsession even if they don't understand why we choose what we choose to be obsessed with. There are plenty of (lesser)obsessions my family have seen me through, few of which I'd admit to here, but admitting being obsessed with a man, or cyberstalking, as MWP correctly called it, is a bit different. See above paragraph for reasons why.
And rihnannsu, I realized saying my love for Adam was one-sided may bring up that whole discussion that true love means wanting nothing in return. And I certainly agree. But, while love may not have conditions, relationships certainly do. Having been married a long time I can say that it took a lot of late night conversations to work out our expectations, roles and to understand the multitude of other emotions we possess. Love is easy but as Adam says, relationships take work. While I know that I will love my husband no matter what, that doesnt mean I don't expect anything in return, starting with his love back, and including his time and attention somewhere on the lengthy list.
I am rambling so will end by saying thanks for all the angles to think about when trying to understand my Adam love. I guess I can start with calling it my three packs a day (I uppped it!) or my lucky, worn pebble that feels so nice in my pocket!
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nikki
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Post by nikki on Nov 11, 2012 2:48:49 GMT -5
There are times I really feel the time zone differences  Alison, thank you so much for sharing your beautiful trio with me and everyone else :D. They are gorgeous. Here is my Ollie, he can be very silly at times, like his owner, but he is always enthusiastic. For a "senior" dog, he has the energy of a puppy, so I feel like I'm still running around after a toddler:  And Junie, still on the topic of animals, I loved your story about your "diva" bunny. Not a "size 2" cracked me up. Some do have unique sensitivity, and we're lucky when we find them. Kay, everyone has covered the territory so well - so here's a couple of asides. In one way, don't you think it is a damning commentary on society and humanity that we question why we love a "stranger" as "wacked"? I feel that Adam operates on many levels of love. In it's purest form, it is soul to soul, direct, uncomplicated and with no need for explanation, touching us from that same place. It is so innocent, the "we're all connected with love" Adam. There are no strangers there. He invites this connection through his words and his being. It seems to have become so rare, that when it is offered, we can become obsessed, perhaps because it is not the same quality of love that we typically find. And it feeds and nourishes us in a unique way that is also generally not available to us. The only way I can explain how I respond to it is that it feels like the first rushes of falling "in love". And yes, we don't have a personal relationship with Adam that is reciprocated, (bummer), even though we feel emotional connection because of all that he has revealed and again, invited us to trespass into. But Adam does reciprocate that primal, truly human form of love, and so to me, it is a bit of a razor's edge to navigate between both territories, particularly when I have a lot of personal feelings towards him  mwp, this is for you. You are a clever woman, so when you do finally meet him, and I truly hope you do, I suspect you will look him in the eyes, and you'll glow and smile like you see here, having quickly figured out that he already knows how you feel about him - maybe not the details, but certainly the quality - and that it is perfectly OK with him:  I wonder what Adam does to prepare before a concert. Does anyone know? It seems clear that he draws from a deep well of positive emotion. Adam has said many times that he feels no stage fright except before major TV appearances. Quite simply, there is no room for fear or tension because he is filled with happiness to enter a room full of people who are special to him. This was obvious to me when my sister and I got to attend Adam’s promo appearance in Houston in March. Seeing him sing before just a few dozen people, Adam seemed to hold us in his eyes, to regard us with joyful surprise. .... Whatever he does, it works on the songs about emotional suffering as well. It seems like Adam's whole emotional personality is awake and available to him when he performs. And that is just so cool. I think he's been asked this question a couple of times and he has no particular rituals. Does anyone know if he's said more than that? If that's right, then his ability to transition is breathtaking. I know some performers have to consciously "flick a switch". Perhaps he doesn't. |
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Alison
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Post by Alison on Nov 11, 2012 8:10:32 GMT -5
Nikki, your Ollie is adorable, and is that you in the pic with Adam? If so, you are beautiful! Two very photogenic people in that pic.
Junie, you must be so happy with the sharing happening in our lovely Moon Garden. I know you had your doubts about whether or not it would take root, but I told you so 8-). We are drawn to good people and good conversation.
I really want to respond to the conversation that Kay started, because I relate to everything that has been said. It may take me a day or two, but I know that my wonderful companions here will be reading and nodding along when I do.
Love you guys.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 8:17:53 GMT -5
Thank you, mika, for that wonderful video of Lana Wachowski. I wish the whole world could hear powerful moments like these for its impossible to walk away the unmoved.
Nikki, interesting to think about how we may cling to Adam love because it's such a rare thing. Hmmm...
So many have tried to expain their experiences meeting Adam. As a person who doesn't feel she has anything to gain from a split second encounter that cannot possible be the culmination of all I hold in my heart for him, I rarely take away much understanding from their descriptions. Momtomany's being an exception. But your words to mwp did touch me (" when you do finally meet him, and I truly hope you do, I suspect you will look him in the eyes, and you'll glow and smile like you see here, having quickly figured out that he already knows how you feel about him - maybe not the details, but certainly the quality - and that it is perfectly OK with him."). You are right--you are beaming in the photo, but what really stands out more to me is the tender look of love on his face. Totally supporting your words. Adam has explained his infinity tattoo many times and I suspect it's not just energy but love that flows between him and his fans.
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Post by Jablea on Nov 11, 2012 9:04:49 GMT -5
I'm not that great with imaginative original words so let me bring this over from the old TWOP thread Catz and I were talking about on yesterdays main post. I think it sums up fairly nicely why I so appreciate Adam both on first impression and upon the millionth impression.
This is from early March 2009 (just after AI top 13) by InakaMusume.
nikki, awesome words about Adam not knowing the specifics but intuitively understanding the quality of our love for him.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 9:31:10 GMT -5
What a beautiful thing we have going here lately. :wub:
Yesterday I went to a writing and meditation retreat. It was really fun and gave me a lot to think about. As you might imagine, the focus was on tapping into what your inner thoughts had to say, rather than on producing something commercial. There was a lot that made me think about Adam's journey with Trespassing and this fan/expectations thing, as well as my own stuff ...
More later. I wanted to leave something here to mark Veteran's Day. Going out to breakfast later with my dad. He was a Marine during WWII.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2012 9:42:49 GMT -5
That speech mika shared ( m.hollywoodreporter.com/news/lana-wachowski-reveals-suicide-plan-382169 )has me thinking, and although I just acknowledged it in my above post I realize that this would also be a great deeper topic for the moon garden that junie and others so beautifully maintain. Since I am traveling through and lured by the sweet aromas I will sit and ponder this subject that I admit to not having a lot of knowledge in. Lana is a transgender woman who tells in her speech about different scenes from her life where she struggles with misidentity, the first one she mentions is from age 8 I believe. I think society is much farther behind understanding transgender than homosexuality because there simply are not as many examples to be seen. We all know gay people but not maybe not transgender. It is so important for people like her to just talk and let us understand her story and just see her as a person. So, I actually do know a man who I heard transitioned to a woman, years after I last saw him. My best friend was in a troubled marriage with him and the last straw for her was when she discovered he cross dressed behind her back. She couldn't come to terms with the secrecy and the question, who is this person I thought I knew? When he presented himself to his mother she disowned him immediately. I felt so sorry for him and all the internal termoil he must have been holding inside but I assume he is doing better in the new life he has bravely created. I can't go much further than that because I never liked him as a person and male or female wouldn't change that. The news of him came as a complete shock to me and I found myself looking back for signs, but unable to find any--other than that they had been in counciling most of their 6 yr marriage. Knowing this story, and Lana's makes me think about how gay people feel differences early on (disclaimer: I am not saying transgender and homosexuality are the same at all) I am very uncomfortable with stereotypes--even though Adam sites the fact that he liked dressing up rather than sports as a sign of being gay-- but I guess it's fair to say there are differences. So I find myself looking back to moments in time where I may have missed signs from young people I taught as an early childhood educator. There was one boy whose parents were loving but worried because he only played with girls and had no interest in traditional boy stuff what so ever. I reassureed them that it was quite normal at the age (and it is) and meant nothing--even though there was something different about this boy than all the many others I'd known who liked to dress up in gowns and play with dolls. I don't think they believed it and truthfully in this case I wasn't sure myself. Decades later I still think about him and wish I had also said to the parents that they should accept him for whatever he is at every stage. I could go on with other stories about boys who loved to help mom shop for clothes at a preschool age and had a certain gentlenss about them--stories I would previously think sounded like I was fitting gay people or transgender people into boxes--- but now I think I am just being understanding and open to recognize that things that make people different are ok to recognize. To recognize but not to assign labels to or to have expectation of exactly what they will mean in the future. Gosh I hope I am not being at all offensive. Maybe this was too big a subject to tackle without thinking it through more deeply, but since I am sure that will be a lifetime process I thought i'd throw it out there. I would love to hear the stories of people's youth and what signs family and caregivers missed, and what they could have done differently, so that children like Lana or Adam, who struggled with identity, could be helped much earlier than in all the sad stories we hear. |
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mahailia
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Post by mahailia on Nov 11, 2012 10:08:15 GMT -5
Kay said: (too lazy to quote and delete most of her post)
I would love to hear the stories of people's youth and what signs family and caregivers missed, and what they could have done differently, so that little boys like Lana, who struggle with identity, could be helped much earlier than in all the sad stories we hear.
Prescription:
Acceptance of differences, refusal to stereotype and assign "boxes", and foster an openness that allows individuality to flourish without judging.
This requires an education process to occur with early childhood teachers and caregivers specifically, and with society in general.
The first time my son saw a Barbie doll (he was raised with an older brother), he was 2 years old. We were at the beach with some friends that had 2 little girls. He ran to the doll, picked it up, and went crazy, like it was the best and most wonderful toy in the world.
At 3, I took him to Toys R Us and told him he could have any toy in the store he wanted. He wanted The Little Mermaid doll, Ariel, and that's what he got.
These kids know from an early age they are different*. They need to be nurtured as individuals, and not put in a box. The signs are there if you are paying attention.
When my son was in the 7th grade, I had a serious fight (not physical, obviously) with his teacher, who did not allow him to hang out with the girls before school. She told me that he needed to stay on the side of the yard with the boys. I told her that she had no right to keep my son away from his friends before school, and that he would hang out with whoever he wanted to. I did battle with her all year long.
*eta: I should clarify: different, as in not the same as most of the little boys and girls they meet in daycare or PK. Different interests, but these kids know their natural desires and attractions. Not in a sexual sense, in a sense of what games they like to play, what toys they want, what cartoons they enjoy watching, etc. and whether they like to play with boys or girls.
It is interesting that "tomboys" are widely known and accepted by society. There is currently no nickname I know of for boys that like to play with "girl" toys, other than "sissy".
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sugaree
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Post by sugaree on Nov 11, 2012 10:21:52 GMT -5
I had to take Shadow on that horrible ride last night. That's all I can see through my tears to type.
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Post by rihannsu on Nov 11, 2012 10:26:55 GMT -5
And rihnannsu, I realized saying my love for Adam was one-sided may bring up that whole discussion that true love means wanting nothing in return. And I certainly agree. But, while love may not have conditions, relationships certainly do. Having been married a long time I can say that it took a lot of late night conversations to work out our expectations, roles and to understand the multitude of other emotions we possess. Love is easy but as Adam says, relationships take work. While I know that I will love my husband no matter what, that doesnt mean I don't expect anything in return, starting with his love back, and including his time and attention somewhere on the lengthy list. Ah, yes but you see you recognize that relationships take work. Do you realize how strongly our society programs the "happily ever after" meme? I have witnessed so many people who expect that the love itself will somehow solve all their issues and if it doesn't then they really don't love the person or the person doesn't love them. You have an advantage in that you are aware that love itself does not maintain the relationship but that you have to put work in to keep it going. The love itself IS a separate thing. This is why throwing statements like "If you loved me you wouldn't do ____" is such a roadblock in communication because the other person is actually deflected from their actions in to defending their love itself and resolving the situation becomes near impossible. Also a problem when dealing with victims of abuse. Because I so often hear people saying "How can you love someone who treats you like that?" which immediately puts the victim in the position of defending their own feelings and emotions. That is then mistaken for them defending the abuser but what they are really defending is their own heart. This actually makes them think even more that everything is their own fault. We should never use love as a negotiating tool. The love is freely given the relationship is to be worked on and a failed relationship is not a failure of love itself but of the work necessary for coexistence. As a young child I absolutely abhorred the fairy tale ending of "they lived happily ever after" because to me it stank of being a big fat lie. But I can't even begin to tell you the number of people who express this false belief that just being in love magically makes everything work and if it doesn't then you leave because the love was what was inadequate. |
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