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Post by Craazyforadam on Mar 29, 2014 22:10:44 GMT -5
I agree that it ultimately did not matter for Adam's career, but it did matter for the reputation of idol and it did matter for how the US was seen by the general public overall.
I have relatives in Germany, Switzerland, UK, who each are not at all interested in either pop music or in idol specifically, but the storyline for three days straight was that
'bigoted America' had crowned a boring nobody as their idol, just to avoid crowning a gay person and that American churches were preaching to the crowds about how they were supposed to vote on a TV show, just to avoid some 'imaginary Armageddon'. I got quite a bit of teasing and ripping in phone calls with EU during those days.
Of course, such topics die down quickly, but it added to the overall perception of a bigoted and backwards US, usually, it was followed by, I thought with Obama, America was finally getting out of the middle ages, but clearly not.
And for Adam, while it did not stop his career, it was just another notice that things were not going to be as easy as everybody was predicting for him. And, boy, did that ever come true. But, and that needs to be said too, that loss strengthened the resolve of his fan base enormously and I do believe that this is worth more than the title.
Btw, I am convinced that these conservative churches that did stuff like that in 2009 and since, are losing the next generation of members in large numbers. This has not yet hit the political realm and its headlines, where the usual age of key players is 40-70, and their engagement is accordingly conservative, but it is visible in churches, where the next generation is not nearly as appreciative of this kind of preaching as their parent generation was.
It just has not yet played out historically, in that the generational change still needs to happen, but 10 years from now, nobody will believe anymore what a battle it was in 2009.
And yes, I agree that phone lines were blocked, mass voting happened and it added to the voting picture. Whether that had enough influence and volume to tip the balance, will remain debate forever. But I do think that all reasons together may have made a difference.
And yes, I do agree that KA gave great performances in the last 2 weeks and Adam was not able to keep his glittery path going, because too many performances were dictated by the show and not by him. Not that they were not good, it just meant that his momentum slowed a bit, right when Kris was at his best.
So, there are many reasons that came together, and ultimately the deck was stacked against Adam at that moment. Fortuna was with Kris. But, I will never believe that the majority of people wanted Kris to win. How it happened, that Kris ended up with most of the votes, we will never know for sure, but I personally also lean towards the 'something was fishy in major way' - end of the spectrum.
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Post by adamrocks on Mar 29, 2014 22:11:16 GMT -5
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Post by glittergma on Mar 29, 2014 22:21:36 GMT -5
There is no evidence that Adam lost Idol because the middle of the country voted for Kris. There is certainly no evidence that there is more homophobia in the middle of the country. One thing is sure, Bill O'Reilly, Fox TV and the like are more popular in California than in Iowa or Ohio (based on Nielsen ratings). For the Top 3 Dial Idol had Adam winning most of the center of the country, and Kris winning California and NY. The is also no evidence that Adam being gay had anything to do with him loosing Idol. There is a lot of evidence that Adam is polarizing -- and he was very polarizing in 2009. People loved him or hated him -- and I think that vote was all about Adam. So Kris got votes from the people who liked Kris best and from people who really did not like Adam. And many of the people who did not like Adam did not care about whether he was gay or not, they did not like him -- the emo look, the f'ing with a country song, etc. Finally, people do not like to be told who is going to win Idol. Watch the Top 13 performance -- the judges were crowning Adam. I hate rehashing the "voting" subject but I have to say from my anecdotal voting experience from NYC - there was no way to get thru to Adam's phone number, it was busy for the full FOUR hours. I had an involuntary (i.e I recruited kids/friends/relatives) "voting party" with many phone lines for dialing and texting, I knew exactly how many seconds it takes to redial...we could've contributed good several thousand dialed votes, except no-one, not on one line could get thru the busy signal. I tried Kris' number exactly three times and I got thru every time. FOUR HOURS OF BUSY SIGNALS!!!! They did not bother to adjust throughput capacity on Adam's lines, at least not at the exchanges servicing my area. I will never believe it was kosher. (OMG...it was fun! I didn't let the voting slaves go to the bathroom even! :D) First off, TY Q3, for the Freddie + cats on the main page. Loved it...love my kitties!! And, I along with many of my cat loving friends, have places designated for them in case something should happen to us. Thank you also, for mentioning that there is no evidence that it was middle America that caused Adam not to win AI. I'm right here in Nebraska, almost the center of the US! And, I voted my ass off!! LOL!! I even had a long time g/f there from out of town that night, made her watch, which she enjoyed, got her drunk...hahaha! But, when it was over, I apologized and grabbed my phone. BTW, the first vid I showed her was ROF and she LOVED IT!!! Nica, I won't pretend to know how phone companies work, etc. But, I don't think I ever got a busy signal when I was voting for Adam, and I voted the whole 4 hours. I suppose that means that more people were voting in NY than in NE...lol! But, I got through time after time, and really thought I wasn't the only one. Unfortunately, that wasn't true. :( I also have a friend here who doesn't like Adam. God forbid, but it's true. It isn't because he's gay at all, though. Of course, I don't get it at all, but she just doesn't like his voice. And, as she's told me way too many times, (UGH) she hates how he sticks his tongue out when he sings the high notes. I've just finally decided she has a bad ear and doesn't see beauty when it slaps you in the face...lmao! For the record, she didn't like Kris or Danny either. For some reason, that makes me laugh. She would never tell me who she did like, but she still watches AI, so go figure?? Her sister, on the other hand, loves Adam, and she was my friend first, so that makes up for it. At least I have another fan I can flail with.  I'd like to sneak in a few words about cats in here, if I may. I've been a cat person all my life & never have known a cat I didn't love. And, have never known a cat I didn't bond with. Doesn't matter if they are older or kittens, you can bond with them if you take the time to do so. My old girl doesn't like anyone but me. Her first Mom was the above mentioned fan, and she couldn't wait for me to take her off her hands as she was so feisty...swore she came out hissing. She's 17 now, & she's my love. My other 4 were ferals, I took them inside when their mom disappeared, and they are all such darlings. They want much more than just fed, etc. All are inside kitties, and always will be. They just want to be loved and cared for. Willie, my alpha cat, meets me at the door every day when I get home from work. He's my greeter kitty!! LOL! I know this isn't about Adam, but I wish he wasn't allergic, because I think he would really appreciate the love and the bond you have with a cat. I mean, after all, Freddie knew!! See how I tied Adam back into that? I know, I know, but Q3 started it!!  |
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Post by cassie on Mar 29, 2014 22:31:20 GMT -5
We will never know why Kris won and not Adam. We will also never know if Adam's career would look at all different now had he won rather than come in second. Theories abound, and I, like many of you, have my own beliefs about the matter.
I just wanted to point out one misinterpretation. People say that more people voted for Kris than for Adam. We have no way of knowing that. We know that Kris got more VOTES, but that doesn't mean more VOTERS. I voted for Adam. I think I called in three votes. I had no idea that people were calling in literally hundreds of times from multiple phones and also texting. Never dawned on me to do that. If it had, I still would not have invested the time to. I was not that into AI or reality TV in general.
AI has never been about the BEST singer. It has not been about America's favorite singer. It has been about who can chalk up the most votes. Like a popularity contest in high school, except that students can stuff the ballot boxes. No wonder there are people who look upon Idol winners with scorn.
Idol did what Adam needed it to do for him. Idol introduced Adam to me and to America. I will ever be grateful for that, but I can't really stand the premise of the show now that I have seen how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 22:55:12 GMT -5
(OT, but: damn! - Tim Bergling tweeted that when doctors were removing his gall bladder, they discovered his appendix had ruptured and removed that, too. He needs to get well enough to get back to that amazing glass mansion he just bought in LA and rest and recuperate.)
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Post by Craazyforadam on Mar 29, 2014 22:55:41 GMT -5
I have honestly never experienced this. It is not because I am too young, or grew up in a liberal family -- my family is very conservative and very Catholic. You have never experienced a closeted person in your life? Are you being serious? Or you are saying, if they are closeted and are saying that they are a bachelor, then you just take this at face value that they just never found a partner? I mean, of course, for some people, the reasons are unrelated to lgbt, sure. But, for all? Nope. Not buying that. Oh, and btw, we share that Catholic and conservative part in our family background - at least for one part of my family that's true, the other, not quite so much. Btw, if your family was catholic, what did they say and how did they react, when their priest was gay? I don't mean now, but rather 30 - 50 years ago? Just curious. Given that I grew up in EU, gay acceptance was treated culturally quite differently than I have since encountered here. There was no rejection of homosexuality, but yet, there were a lot of unmarried people, where I either knew they were gay, but it was never much talked about, or others, where looking back, I think that they were gay, and I just never found out at the time. And that indicates to me that while EU was much more open and tolerant, and that whole church based hating from the US was totally absent (including in catholic circles btw), yet, things cannot have been quite so rosy for those who found themselves in the situation, if many of them, ended up as non-open rather than open. It is easy, when you belong to the non-affected majority, to assume that everything is fine for everyone, when nothing is further from the truth. True for other areas like gender, race, disabilities, looks, poverty, etc. too, not just a orientation related perception issue. In my generation and circles, in EU, if you were friends, things were open, but not necessarily in the work place. Saw quite a bit of ignorance there. Being partially open is a difficult tightrope to walk, and it is easy to be accidentally outed. And teasing was commonplace everywhere, especially in a culture that does not or did not have any of the US political correctness sensitivities. Also, androgyny is seen differently in EU, and with Adam, obviously, both elements come into play, so that is a whole other can of worms, that I won't get into in this post. Yes, I agree that Adam chose to not talk about in on idol. I did not say otherwise. But, the result of not talking, is that there is an emptiness in the storyline, where others have their wife, or dead wife, or girlfriend, or in Alison's case their youth to fill the storyline. And that mirrors real life, where gay people encounter that same situation when interacting with a world that is mostly straight, which was my point. Finally, you bring up the Eber/Leila divorce and its 're-write' for purposes of idol. I think that the producers had a very colorful character (Adam), with a lot of topics already going on, and just decided, in the interest of overall balance, that this adding the divorce and Amy (?) into the story-line was going to be too much. They noticed that Eber and Leila had the kind of interaction that allowed to keep up the appearance of a happy marriage, and so they decided to write their 'reality TV story' that way. Probably very weird for Eber and Amy (?), but ultimately probably a wise move on the producers part, and in the interest of Adam, imo. Tbh, I was more astounded that Eber and Leila went along with the charade, because, can you imagine how that must have looked to friends and family who knew better, to see that portrayed that way on TV? |
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Mar 29, 2014 22:57:55 GMT -5
Yep. Amy.
Who at one point stated she was pulled out of camera shots by the producers. Was pretty hurt at times if I recall. (Which I would be too if I had been Eber's partner for so many years, was friends with Leila, and yet ordered to be invisible). But the whole family - including her - wanted Adam to do well, so she kept quiet while he was on the show.
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Post by glittergma on Mar 29, 2014 23:11:20 GMT -5
Yep. Amy. Who at one point stated she was pulled out of camera shots by the producers. Was pretty hurt at times if I recall. (Which I would be too if I had been Eber's partner for so many years, was friends with Leila, and yet ordered to be invisible). But the whole family - including her - wanted Adam to do well, so she kept quiet while he was on the show. Wow, I'd never heard that before. I feel bad for Amy. That had to be hard for her. But, she must be a tough lady to keep quiet about it, all for Adam. Well, for Eber too, I'm sure. But, still a crappy thing to have to do. Stupid flippin' producers, anyways. ugh!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2014 23:11:19 GMT -5
Nancy Dickman @nancydickman 4h WHOA!! RT FIREFLYglam @coloseumm @i4adam2 @glampam80 ( °; °) pic.twitter.com/ZvMf9EY8aC
His jaw line, his eyes, his nose, his lips, his ears!! DEAD!! |
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Mar 29, 2014 23:24:13 GMT -5
Yep. Amy. Who at one point stated she was pulled out of camera shots by the producers. Was pretty hurt at times if I recall. (Which I would be too if I had been Eber's partner for so many years, was friends with Leila, and yet ordered to be invisible). But the whole family - including her - wanted Adam to do well, so she kept quiet while he was on the show. Wow, I'd never heard that before. I feel bad for Amy. That had to be hard for her. But, she must be a tough lady to keep quiet about it, all for Adam. Well, for Eber too, I'm sure. But, still a crappy thing to have to do. Stupid flippin' producers, anyways. ugh!! [wryly] Well, it was probably odd from a narrative viewpoint. Adam was already out of the house when Eber and Leila divorced, (to my knowledge) Eber and Amy never married so she's...."Adam's Dad's girlfriend". Hard to caption under the screenshot.  That said, its kinda amazing that Eber, Amy, and Leila all still extremely friendly with each other. Make it easier to see how Adam stays friends with all his exes!! |
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