scorpio
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Post by scorpio on Apr 17, 2011 0:09:02 GMT -5
ETA: noangel, I agree with your assessment of Jake Shears - while he is in very good physical shape, I didn't find him that sexy, so it surprised me to find out that he used to strip. Also, "In some of their early shows, Jake Shears was known to remove all of his clothes onstage, harking back to his former profession as a go-go stripper; while in others he threw inflated condoms into the audience" - guess our show was pretty tame?  Yes, our show really was tame!!! Another girl's night out coming up in May? |
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Post by mszue on Apr 17, 2011 0:30:16 GMT -5
But noangel....when you see it that way...on the surface it seems empowering but when you look a little deeper, it mirrors the different forms/categoriziations of feminisms...to me. For example...when you visualize it as you have done, utilizing established image explanations but making claims of assumptions of power and equality within establisted assumptions, you are 'Classical feminists"...looking for power in all the right/wrong places. The traditionally accepted places
Difference feminists claim that our differences are many but important too/still but the problems with society today is that we do not value those differences equally and that is the fundamental problem. Half of me falls into this category but the other half of me reallizes that we need to get in touch with our radical selves.
It is not enough that nobody is riding her and her head is floating free. The fact is, she is still attached to a masculine symbol...without those useful hands....
'grrrl power' would tell you that you can wear what you want and use your feminine wiles as if they were tools for progress....but if you are raped, they are still arsenals in the war room of the rapist...riding a motorcycle in a position that leaves the 'seat' available to the another...is not apropriating power. We do not talk of the 'stearing wheel of power' or the 'front wheel of power' we talk of the 'seat of power.'
Sorry....I like pontificating late at night, all by myself, when nobody is listening....haha...hope I did not offend anyone....just mumbling...
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skylar
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Post by skylar on Apr 17, 2011 0:35:06 GMT -5
Interesting, isn't it? Obviously (like all art) totally subject to interpretation. My own is more based on the traditional symbolism of the motorcycle-- freedom, speed, a load roar, the open road, non-conformist, and a little scary and not for the faint of heart. Associated with rebels and people who buck authority. And very much associated with masculinity. In the pic, no one is riding her, so presumably she sets her own course. Catch her if you can, LOL. And for those who would objectify the female form, she has removed her own. With... an object. Sleek lines and curves. Shiny and pretty. But also hard and cold. You can try to ride her, but her "arms" control the direction. Nothing about the picture implies female passivity, to me. Her expression is fierce, and she's coming at the viewer in an aggressive manner. I think it's kind of cool, actually, but I really don't connect with the message and it leaves me cold. JMHO, YMMV and all that  Thanks for turning that in a new direction! Made me think! I think Skylar's questions are very valid, though! I'm sure others felt the same way as she did when first seeing that pic (I did!)  you both! |
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Zinnia
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Post by Zinnia on Apr 17, 2011 0:40:37 GMT -5
Wow, it is really windy here in NYC. It's whistling outside my windows. Poor Sauli. Not a very nice welcome to the city. correction: howling, not whistling. Sauli is from Finland, do you think he would be unused to cold weather ? Well, not unused - but are they prepared clothwise is another question . They were packing for warmer climate and for 2-3 months of that. |
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skylar
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Post by skylar on Apr 17, 2011 0:43:57 GMT -5
But noangel....when you see it that way...on the surface it seems empowering but when you look a little deeper, it mirrors the different forms/categoriziations of feminisms...to me. For example...when you visualize it as you have done, utilizing established image explanations but making claims of assumptions of power and equality within establisted assumptions, you are 'Classical feminists"...looking for power in all the right/wrong places. The traditionally accepted places Difference feminists claim that our differences are many but important too/still but the problems with society today is that we do not value those differences equally and that is the fundamental problem. Half of me falls into this category but the other half of me reallizes that we need to get in touch with our radical selves. It is not enough that nobody is riding her and her head is floating free. The fact is, she is still attached to a masculine symbol...without those useful hands.... 'grrrl power' would tell you that you can wear what you want and use your feminine wiles as if they were tools for progress....but if you are raped, they are still arsenals in the war room of the rapist...riding a motorcycle in a position that leaves the 'seat' available to the another...is not apropriating power. We do not talk of the 'stearing wheel of power' or the 'front wheel of power' we talk of the 'seat of power.' Sorry....I like pontificating late at night, all by myself, when nobody is listening....haha...hope I did not offend anyone....just mumbling... I, for one, am COMPLETELY offended. *team keep-your-own-seat-of-power-and-your-hands-on, girrl* |
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Post by stardust on Apr 17, 2011 0:45:14 GMT -5
But noangel....when you see it that way...on the surface it seems empowering but when you look a little deeper, it mirrors the different forms/categoriziations of feminisms...to me. For example...when you visualize it as you have done, utilizing established image explanations but making claims of assumptions of power and equality within establisted assumptions, you are 'Classical feminists"...looking for power in all the right/wrong places. The traditionally accepted places Difference feminists claim that our differences are many but important too/still but the problems with society today is that we do not value those differences equally and that is the fundamental problem. Half of me falls into this category but the other half of me reallizes that we need to get in touch with our radical selves. It is not enough that nobody is riding her and her head is floating free. The fact is, she is still attached to a masculine symbol...without those useful hands.... 'grrrl power' would tell you that you can wear what you want and use your feminine wiles as if they were tools for progress....but if you are raped, they are still arsenals in the war room of the rapist...riding a motorcycle in a position that leaves the 'seat' available to the another...is not apropriating power. We do not talk of the 'stearing wheel of power' or the 'front wheel of power' we talk of the 'seat of power.' Sorry....I like pontificating late at night, all by myself, when nobody is listening....haha...hope I did not offend anyone....just mumbling... I agree with this. Take a look at that pic shopped with Adam riding the motorcycle....  Not good to me.  |
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Post by cassie on Apr 17, 2011 0:46:38 GMT -5
Very late night ramblings. I didn't see the Gaga cover as being a statement of masculinity/femininity at all. Tho' both arguments work. I saw it as a depiction of the mechanization of the pop music and celebrity industry (tho' I am sure Gaga didn't mean it that way). Gaga has become a cyborg or a transformer -- fused together with the machinery of a manufactured image. Flashy, fast, shiny, noisy, cold, no longer entirely human. She is no longer riding the machine, driving it, but has been incorporated and fused into it. She can no longer separate herself from it and walk away. She may look wild and fierce, but she has no warmth, no joy, and little humanity left. She also looks like she is stalking looking for her next meal.
I am sure that is not the statement she was making, but it seems appropriate for her.
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skylar
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Post by skylar on Apr 17, 2011 0:54:20 GMT -5
Very late night ramblings. I didn't see the Gaga cover as being a statement of masculinity/femininity at all. Tho' both arguments work. I saw it as a depiction of the mechanization of the pop music and celebrity industry (tho' I am sure Gaga didn't mean it that way). Gaga has become a cyborg or a transformer -- fused together with the machinery of a manufactured image. Flashy, fast, shiny, noisy, cold, no longer entirely human. She is no longer riding the machine, driving it, but has been incorporated and fused into it. She can no longer separate herself from it and walk away. She may look wild and fierce, but she has no warmth, no joy, and little humanity left. She also looks like she is stalking looking for her next meal. I am sure that is not the statement she was making, but it seems appropriate for her. Like that analysis! That part is disturbing as well. Aaaaaand motorcycles require gasoline so they are far less eco-friendly than the human body. Definitely a step down from flesh and blood. Adam seems to be having fun riding her... ??? |
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lynne
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Post by lynne on Apr 17, 2011 0:59:48 GMT -5
Very late night ramblings. I didn't see the Gaga cover as being a statement of masculinity/femininity at all. Tho' both arguments work. I saw it as a depiction of the mechanization of the pop music and celebrity industry (tho' I am sure Gaga didn't mean it that way). Gaga has become a cyborg or a transformer -- fused together with the machinery of a manufactured image. Flashy, fast, shiny, noisy, cold, no longer entirely human. She is no longer riding the machine, driving it, but has been incorporated and fused into it. She can no longer separate herself from it and walk away. She may look wild and fierce, but she has no warmth, no joy, and little humanity left. She also looks like she is stalking looking for her next meal. I am sure that is not the statement she was making, but it seems appropriate for her. Honestly, that was the feel that the cover gave me. |
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Post by mszue on Apr 17, 2011 1:09:32 GMT -5
Very late night ramblings. I didn't see the Gaga cover as being a statement of masculinity/femininity at all. Tho' both arguments work. I saw it as a depiction of the mechanization of the pop music and celebrity industry (tho' I am sure Gaga didn't mean it that way). Gaga has become a cyborg or a transformer -- fused together with the machinery of a manufactured image. Flashy, fast, shiny, noisy, cold, no longer entirely human. She is no longer riding the machine, driving it, but has been incorporated and fused into it. She can no longer separate herself from it and walk away. She may look wild and fierce, but she has no warmth, no joy, and little humanity left. She also looks like she is stalking looking for her next meal. I am sure that is not the statement she was making, but it seems appropriate for her. Like that analysis! That part is disturbing as well. Aaaaaand motorcycles require gasoline so they are far less eco-friendly than the human body. Definitely a step down from flesh and blood. Adam seems to be having fun riding her... ??? HAHA skylar...and you just took into rara....dada ..gaga...land...oops....hahaha....got to love pomo pop culture.... |
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you both!
