supardu
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Post by supardu on Feb 16, 2011 21:59:12 GMT -5
Cassie, I will certainly be plowing through your 45 page archive. I've been waiting for Adam downtime to read to read and savor your thread. In the meantime, I've greatly enjoyed reading your posts in the daily news threads, and I've saved many of them on my computer. What is the typical range for a mezzo soprano, a soprano, and for a coloratura soprano? Thanks for such great compliments! Soprano can be used as a generic term just meaning the higher female voice. But, as you have broken them down, the soprano is generally thought to have a usable range of about C4 (middle C) to the C two octaves above - C6. They may be able to sing a couple notes above or below that, but most music lies in that range. The mezzo-soprano has a slightly lower range, say A3 (the A below middle C) to A5, two octaves higher. The tone is often slightly richer or darker than the soprano. The contralto is a couple of notes lower than the mezzo, about F3-F5. Again, the tone is heavier and darker. The coloratura soprano is generally stylistically lighter than the soprano and specializes in ornamentation and runs. The range is about C4-F6 or so. Of course the terminology is just a way of categorizing voices, and each individual voice may have a slightly different range or sound. Bringing it back to Adam, he easily sings in the range of a contralto, but adds another four notes to the bottom. He can even be said to sing the mezzo range with the added bottom notes. But, then, he is referred to as a tenor, range C3 (octave below middle C) to C5 (octave above middle C). That he definitely hits. Right. I didn't understand the C3 notation, but it's confusing to me. I'm drawing a diagram, but will work it out tomorrow. A long time ago, I saved the DDD chart comparing the ranges of their top 10 best technical rock artists, so will resurrect that and slot in the soprano ranges. A demain...
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seashell
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Post by seashell on Feb 17, 2011 0:05:33 GMT -5
Hey Cassie.. I saw your response on the news thread.. thought I would post the actual content from Rolling Stone.. here is what they said... Yeah.. BS I know.. LOL
- Bieber's voice began to change on his last tour. He's now working with a vocal coach, which involves doing 20 push-ups before a session to warm up his chest. "He's got a nice tone to his voice now," says his vocal coach Jan Smith. "It's a good texture, but it doesn't sound like what his fans think he sounds like. He'll get four octaves eventually. He's still young."
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Post by cassie on Feb 17, 2011 0:36:41 GMT -5
I think this is my first foray into the vocal masterclass thread! Cassie, thank you so much for sharing your expertise. When you write about Adam's voice, it sends a thrill right through me, even though I know next to nothing about music/voice technique. So pleased you checked us out! I love your writing and am happy to share my passion for vocal technique with you as you have shared your insight about Adam with us . That is great studio trickery. Adam has wonderful breath control, which we can clearly hear in Come to Me, Bend to Me. But, that phrase is probably beyond even him. Probably. I know nothing about record producing but this is how I would I would create the illusion of one breath. I would do multiple takes with Adam breathing at different places. For example: Tiny minded, two time suckers (breath) Same old faces make me shudder(breath). That is the phrasing you would likely hear live, as it follows the musical line. The next take, I would ask Adam to sing: Tiny minded (breath) two tone suckers same old faces (breath) make me shudder countless times (breath). That would connect the musical phrases together. Then, you splice the two takes together so that no breath is heard. Live, I think Adam could sneak breaths in without it damaging the flow of the song. As long as he kept the final elongated phrase. "I need someone to be my lover" is a natural musical phrase and most singers would breathe there before going into the chorus. I think Adam would choose to sing "I need some one (ninja breath) to be my lover all my life." The joining of the last phrase of the bridge and the first phrase of the chorus is brilliant. Adam does the same joining in CTMBTM when he sings, "Come to me, bend to me, (breath) kiss me (breath - before he needs it to complete the phrase, but intentionally to prepare for the elongated phrases upcoming) Good dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy (there should be a breath here, but NOOOO) give me your lips (breath - finally). It sounds soooo good, and it is also the ultimate in showing off for a tenor. Like, who can do that!!! Adam Lambert. Oh, but I get off track. PUU is not particularly challenging in vocal range or intensity, so by adding breaths he could easily add that to the show and sing it nightly. Don't know why he chose not to. I hear what you are referring to in the Soaked acoustic. It is actually the opposite of being tired or sparing his voice. It is a stylistic choice to hit each note of the run precisely rather than slurring them together. It is a tough trick to do. If a singer wants to hit each note distinctly and separately, he/she would normally add the "H" sound to each note, stopping the vocal stream for a nano second between each note. In that nano-second, he/she adjusts her vocal chords to the next pitch. He doesn't do that. The vocal stream is not interrupted. It just moves directly to the next note of the run. That is more challenging. How to explain it? Hmmm. Each pitch is a target. The easiest way to hit all the pitches in the run is to use a ray gun, pull the trigger on the first target and then sweep it past each subsequent pitch, making an arc. That is the vocal swoop or slur. If you want to hit each pitch distinctly the next easiest way is to aim pull the trigger, aim pull the trigger, aim pull the trigger. Tou huh huch. But he doesn't do that either. What he does is aim, close his eyes, pull the trigger, pull the trigger, pull the trigger. And just trust that he will hit the target pitch each time. It's subtle, it gives the phrase a little more exactitude and emphasis, but still keeps it silky smooth. Impressive technique. Like I said, Adam showing off. Does that make you like it any better? Oh, and no one has asked those questions before! Angelina, the opera singer did comment on how he sang "touch" --- and she loved the expertise it showed.
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aloha
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Post by aloha on Feb 17, 2011 4:10:41 GMT -5
This must be the night to venture into the masterclass thread for the first time. Cassie, my two favorites on the acoustic CD are Soaked and Aftermath. Stylistically they sound completely different, and yet-- aren't they both difficult to sing? I mean-- don't they use two completely different techniques to achieve their sound? In some ways Aftermath sounds more complex to me.
I feel clumsy trying to ask the question-- don't know if you will understand what I'm trying to say.
ETA: these are the two songs I am currently "hooked" on. I listen to them repeatedly.. for different reasons. Both pull my strings and pluck certain emotional pleasure chords... but again, different ones for each song.
Gah!
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Post by gelly14 on Feb 17, 2011 6:26:20 GMT -5
This must be the night to venture into the masterclass thread for the first time. Cassie, my two favorites on the acoustic CD are Soaked and Aftermath. Stylistically they sound completely different, and yet-- aren't they both difficult to sing? I mean-- don't they use two completely different techniques to achieve their sound? In some ways Aftermath sounds more complex to me. I feel clumsy trying to ask the question-- don't know if you will understand what I'm trying to say. ETA: these are the two songs I am currently "hooked" on. I listen to them repeatedly.. for different reasons. Both pull my strings and pluck certain emotional pleasure chords... but again, different ones for each song. Gah! aloha i got my acoustic cd two days ago (its Greece here : ) and these two songs are my favs too. After listening to my sound system numerous times i decided to take a cd with me at the car. I will never do this again. When he does the pause at Soaked and starts again I CLOSED MY EYES!!!And i was in the fucking car DRIVING!!! So cassie i would also like to listen your thoughts about these two from the acoustic cd and i would also like to say that in Aftermath the way he sings the word "shadow" is killing me!!! And another question. Listening to the acoustic cd, i absolutely fell in love again with the lower register of his voice especially in Mad World. cassie am i making any sense about mad world??? Ohh and aloha i too believe that no one else than Adam can sing Aftermath. Of course cassie is here to explain why but these up and down notes in the same song and the way he delivers them ,are remarkable IMO.
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Post by cassie on Feb 17, 2011 11:10:43 GMT -5
This must be the night to venture into the masterclass thread for the first time. Cassie, my two favorites on the acoustic CD are Soaked and Aftermath. Stylistically they sound completely different, and yet-- aren't they both difficult to sing? I mean-- don't they use two completely different techniques to achieve their sound? In some ways Aftermath sounds more complex to me. I feel clumsy trying to ask the question-- don't know if you will understand what I'm trying to say. ETA: these are the two songs I am currently "hooked" on. I listen to them repeatedly.. for different reasons. Both pull my strings and pluck certain emotional pleasure chords... but again, different ones for each song. Gah! Welcome, aloha. Glad you stopped by, and you were very clear with your question. I agree that Adam's style of singing differs between Aftermath and Soaked. To me, there is a difference in the quality of the tone. Aftermath is more pop-ish, and Soaked is more legitimate theater, almost operatic. I hear Adam aiming or positioning the tone or sound towards different parts of his mouth and head. To review from a post on the old site, think of the sound as waves in the ocean coming to shore and entering a cave. (the cave being your mouth and head). In Soaked, he uses large waves, and channels them into the cave in such a way that they heave up and bounce strongly against the walls at the front of the cave, then bounce back and forth there. Adam, when singing, "And you've had enough, searching for love" puts such power into the sound waves (but with NO strain) and focuses the tone into the mask, the front of his face and sinuses. There it just reverberates back and forth, producing this clear, ringing, strong sound. In Aftermath, his tone is what I would call more "accessible." Meaning it is more like what we hear from pop singers. The sound waves coming into the cave are not as large or heavy. They spread out and bounce against the walls in the middle of the cave. Not as much "woosh" or smash, but a more gentle surge. The sound waves are focused more broadly toward the middle of the palate, where they still get resonance from the head and sinuses, but not as sharply. (Don't know if I am making any sense here at all.) In Aftermath, when he goes for the high notes in the first half of the song, he shifts into this light, ethereal head voice. He doesn't use his chest resonance which darkens and powers the tone. In Soaked, in contrast, he uses both the head and chest resonance throughout the song, resulting in a much more powerful, richer, "legitimate" sound. The only time he shifts into total head voice is the last notes before the long pause -- "new." There, he throws this tidal wave of sound aimed spot on into his mask, the front of his face and it seems to echo and resonate and produce countless harmonics. When Adam wants power and emphasis in Aftermath on the high notes towards the end, he uses a different technique. He pushes his chest voice resonance up into the high notes and adds a little "squeeze" or tightness to his vocal chords to produce the slightest bit of gravel which sounds very rock. It gives it that celebratory punch. Other differences I hear between the songs are the long, extended or legato phrases in Soaked which require tremendous breath control, whereas Aftermath is more bouncy with shorter phrases. Soaked moves smoothly up and down the melody; Aftermath does these wicked jumps from low to high, requiring him to shift rapidly from chest voice resonance to head voice lightenss. Soaked has "less words." He stretches out the vowels in the words until the last mili-second, before adding the final consonant. Aftermath has lots of words, sung fast, and the challenge is to articulate them clearly with that bounce but without punching the consonants and losing the melodic line. Of course that makes it all sound very complicated ---- and it is. But, to the listener, it is simply a very pleasing, touching performance. We may note that the voice sounds different in the two songs, but that both are pleasing in their own way, and seem to fit the spirit and emotion of the song. With the amount of technical expertise and experience Adam has, I doubt that he breaks down his production and analyzes it like I have. He just sings it in the way he hears and feels it, and his body knows what to do. He would probably chuckle to read me dissecting it as I have. But, since you asked about the differences, that is what I am hearing.
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Post by cassie on Feb 17, 2011 11:23:17 GMT -5
aloha i got my acoustic cd two days ago (its Greece here : ) and these two songs are my favs too. After listening to my sound system numerous times i decided to take a cd with me at the car. I will never do this again. When he does the pause at Soaked and starts again I CLOSED MY EYES!!!And i was in the fucking car DRIVING!!! So cassie i would also like to listen your thoughts about these two from the acoustic cd and i would also like to say that in Aftermath the way he sings the word "shadow" is killing me!!! And another question. Listening to the acoustic cd, i absolutely fell in love again with the lower register of his voice especially in Mad World. cassie am i making any sense about mad world??? Ohh and aloha i too believe that no one else than Adam can sing Aftermath. Of course cassie is here to explain why but these up and down notes in the same song and the way he delivers them ,are remarkable IMO. Thanks for the confidence. I don't know if my explanation cleared things up or muddied the waters more. I LOVE the lower register in Aftermath. As Angelina, the opera singer, pointed out in her interview, he is singing at the very bottom of his range. That is something most singers don't dare to try, because the tone becomes flat, dull, and weak, lacking resonance. But, Adam nails it, and it sounds so rich and full. In Mad World, he doesn't go to the very bottom, but sings in what, to most singers, would be their best "sweet spot." Of course, Adam is not most singers, so his "sweet spot", where the notes are easiest to sing and sound the best, is up and down his range. The thing about Adam's lower notes in MW is that they have such fullness without sounding heavy, ponderous, or dark. It is a very happy sound, clear, not breathy, light, yet with resonance and richness. Like milk chocolate, not dark or bitter sweet chocolate. And like Godiva chocolate, not Hersheys. How's that for an analogy?
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Post by lifeisnow2 on Feb 17, 2011 12:22:04 GMT -5
Cassie's answer to me about the song Conviction from HAIRCassie, This is a question about his singing that was "far away and long ago" In the musical "Hair" he sang "My conviction" I have never seen "Hair"...wish I had. But is the whole song with his falsetto? Could you comment about it. It is wild. Thanks for being our expert. Thanks for the great question. My Conviction is an incredible example of Adam's technique and control. Now, want to have your mind completely blown? In my opinion, NONE of it is in falsetto, with the possible exception of the note towards the end where he sings "that is the way things ARE" and the ARE is very light. I say it is probably falsetto just because of the difference in tone in that one note. But everything else is his wonderful head voice. Falsetto does not have that much power or ring to it. And the final high G? Dayummm. A mezzo-soprano would be happy to hit it that well, with the total lack of strain, and with such wonderful, harmonic resonances bouncing around. This song is when I became convinced that Adam could, should he ever choose to, sing very credible opera. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upw_IUoUe8IThank you Cassie, yes, your answer did "blow me away". I certainly see what you mean by the power he has as he sings. I am just learning more and more about Adam's amazing talent.
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Post by gelly14 on Feb 17, 2011 13:58:31 GMT -5
cassie Thank you so much i read what you wrote to aloha and i think i understood most parts. That's a perfect analogy!!!!
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Post by musicislife on Feb 17, 2011 16:55:42 GMT -5
Hi Cassie! I'm so glad this thread is here. My favorite thing to talk about is Adam's technical skill but I don't have many people in my real life who understand enough about music to dive into it with me. I am a musician - I've played piano since age 7, classically trained, and I also play the violin and cello. Plus I sang in middle & high school in our vocal music programs and at competitions. Anyway, lol, enough about me. Adam actually confuses me as a fellow musician. He can do things technique-wise that I honestly don't understand! One of my absolute favorite things about his voice is his vibrato. It is possibly the most beautifully controlled vibrato I've ever heard. Vibrato is an instant make or break feature on a singer for me. Sometimes it literally sounds like his voice is fluttering (I have a specific instance in mind in an acoustic Sleepwalker performance, but I'm at work and can't get to the youtube vid right now. I'll come back and post it later.) I have also been blessed (or cursed usually) with perfect pitch and this man amazes me. I can think of very few times I've heard him go off-key. Now that the tour is over, I'm going back and listening to the performances again (starting with WLL, because imo that song allows him to really play with range and improvisation). I have questions for you about them but again, I'll post later when I get home & access to youtube. ADAM ANECDOTES COMING UP! Since I can't really get into my question yet, I'll pass along something interesting he told me about his voice. I've had the honor of talking to him about his voice at 2 meet and greets. First was one on the idol tour in 2009 and I told him how much I loved his Upright Cabaret performances. (How Come You Don't Call Me Anymore is my favorite pre-idol performance EVER EVER EVER!!!) I mentioned how funny it was that he stopped to order dessert in the middle of his song & he lol'd and said yeah, I was a bit tipsy! He's so freaking adorable. Then I asked what he thought his range was and he said he had no idea, maybe 3 octaves - it was cute cuz he got a little shy about it. That's another thing I've noticed about him; he consistently downplays how good he technically is. And I don't think it's because he's so humble or shy, but like others and he have said - but does it sound good? Bragging about the highest or lowest notes you can hit is lame if they sound like shit! I was also very surprised to learn he can't read music. Is that normal for vocalists? The second time I talked to him was on the GN Tour and he remembered me (OMG EMBARASSING I SWEAR I'M NORMAL AND NOT A STALKER!!!!11!!) I told him I was doing my best not to geek out and talk music theory and technique with him again and he immediately started giggling and said "I don't know shit about theory!" I told him oh, I'm sure you do and he was all "girl, I don't! I don't know shit about theory!" At this point, I'm swooning because we were bantering and I made him cuss and giggle which are two of my favorite things he does. Of course we had to wrap up so I didn't get to dive in further, but I'd love to have another chance to ask him more about his voice. So there you have it, a little insight straight from the man himself! Can't read music, doesn't know theory and sings like a son of a bitch when drunk!
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