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Post by cassie on Jan 14, 2013 0:13:01 GMT -5
B4? That's hard for him? In what way? In this version of TP, he hits the B4 approx 35 times, if I counted them all. (I DON'T NEED NO G P S to SHOW ME WHERE TO GOoo" Everything in caps is sung on a B4). And, that gorgeous high note that Adam holds forever on CTMBTM? Yup, it's a B4. So, why does this expert say it is a difficult note for Adam? [img src=" ![]() i770.photobucket.com/albums/xx348/Quu3/Adam%20Smilys/Other%20Smileys/dunno1.gif"] [/IMG] [/quote] I don't know either, Cassie. His comment on B4 makes no sense to me. That's why I brought it over here to ask you people's opinion about it. But if I were to guess, it might have something to do with the natural break you mentioned before. May I ask what is your favorite WWFM live in original key?  Thanks. [/quote] Been listening to various versions of WWFM to answer your question. Truth is, I am not crazy about WWFM, the original version. Maybe just tired of it? I much prefer it done acoustically, and when he does that, he lowers the key. Why? And is it related to the B4? Or a break in his voice? Sorta. The break in Adam's voice where he would normally shift to head voice is, as I have said, around a G4 to an A4 when he is very warmed up. However, Adam has the ability and technique to sing G4 on thru E5 with a mixed or blended voice of chest and head. (And higher, tho' not routinely). What he is not able to do is sing softly, lightly, tenderly with a mixed voice much past the A4. So, he has to pick a full-voice that either sounds powerful and almost operatic, or a full-voice that sounds big and belted but not classical, or he can shift to a head voice that is ringing and bell-like but not rock sounding. So, when Adam sings WWFM as the original, rocker type he sings it in the original key where you get those belted B4s. They are NOT a problem for him, not "more difficult" for him. That is just the part of his range that he has to pick POWER or PRETTY RING. When Adam sings the song acoustically it is less BIG overall. If he lowers the key a step or two, he can hit the high notes full-voice but still not hit you over the head with power, if you know what I mean. Or, he can sing the notes with a lighter head voice if he wants it more mellow and pensive. At least, that is what I hear in his voice on the different versions. Hope that makes some sense? |
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Post by butterknife on Jan 14, 2013 21:06:13 GMT -5
Been listening to various versions of WWFM to answer your question. Truth is, I am not crazy about WWFM, the original version. Maybe just tired of it? I much prefer it done acoustically, and when he does that, he lowers the key. Why? And is it related to the B4? Or a break in his voice? Sorta. The break in Adam's voice where he would normally shift to head voice is, as I have said, around a G4 to an A4 when he is very warmed up. However, Adam has the ability and technique to sing G4 on thru E5 with a mixed or blended voice of chest and head. (And higher, tho' not routinely). What he is not able to do is sing softly, lightly, tenderly with a mixed voice much past the A4. So, he has to pick a full-voice that either sounds powerful and almost operatic, or a full-voice that sounds big and belted but not classical, or he can shift to a head voice that is ringing and bell-like but not rock sounding. So, when Adam sings WWFM as the original, rocker type he sings it in the original key where you get those belted B4s. They are NOT a problem for him, not "more difficult" for him. That is just the part of his range that he has to pick POWER or PRETTY RING. When Adam sings the song acoustically it is less BIG overall. If he lowers the key a step or two, he can hit the high notes full-voice but still not hit you over the head with power, if you know what I mean. Or, he can sing the notes with a lighter head voice if he wants it more mellow and pensive. At least, that is what I hear in his voice on the different versions. Hope that makes some sense? Thanks, Cassie. Your post is just beautiful. And I understand it 95%. I went back to read his comment again. I think you are talking about the same thing. But what's funny is that the way he described it sounds like this is Adam's weakness in his voice hence it is somehow 'difficult' for Adam to sing around B4 good live. He also mentioned that Adam produces best of his tone on range of C5-F5, especially E5. (TBH, I think the Bb5 sounds really good) Quote from your post " What he is not able to do is sing softly, lightly, tenderly with a mixed voice much past the A4. " Sorry I am a bit confused by this. (Do you mean once it pasts A4, Adam has to choose either powerful mixed voice or ringing head voice? ) Can you further explain it if you don't mind? Thanks a million. |
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Post by cassie on Jan 15, 2013 0:10:06 GMT -5
Been listening to various versions of WWFM to answer your question. Truth is, I am not crazy about WWFM, the original version. Maybe just tired of it? I much prefer it done acoustically, and when he does that, he lowers the key. Why? And is it related to the B4? Or a break in his voice? Sorta. The break in Adam's voice where he would normally shift to head voice is, as I have said, around a G4 to an A4 when he is very warmed up. However, Adam has the ability and technique to sing G4 on thru E5 with a mixed or blended voice of chest and head. (And higher, tho' not routinely). What he is not able to do is sing softly, lightly, tenderly with a mixed voice much past the A4. So, he has to pick a full-voice that either sounds powerful and almost operatic, or a full-voice that sounds big and belted but not classical, or he can shift to a head voice that is ringing and bell-like but not rock sounding. So, when Adam sings WWFM as the original, rocker type he sings it in the original key where you get those belted B4s. They are NOT a problem for him, not "more difficult" for him. That is just the part of his range that he has to pick POWER or PRETTY RING. When Adam sings the song acoustically it is less BIG overall. If he lowers the key a step or two, he can hit the high notes full-voice but still not hit you over the head with power, if you know what I mean. Or, he can sing the notes with a lighter head voice if he wants it more mellow and pensive. At least, that is what I hear in his voice on the different versions. Hope that makes some sense? Thanks, Cassie. Your post is just beautiful. And I understand it 95%. I went back to read his comment again. I think you are talking about the same thing. But what's funny is that the way he described it sounds like this is Adam's weakness in his voice hence it is somehow 'difficult' for Adam to sing around B4 good live. He also mentioned that Adam produces best of his tone on range of C5-F5, especially E5. (TBH, I think the Bb5 sounds really good) Glad you understood what I was trying to say, but, now I am confused. Adam's best tone is C5-F5? Really? I am curious how he defines "best" then. I am not sure we are talking about the same notes. Some people and some places middle C is called C4. (Generally the term I see in the US.) The B4 would then be 7 steps above that. And the C5 thru F5 would be starting at the octave above middle C, which is where a mezzo soprano generally shifts into head voice from chest voice. It is also almost unheard of for a tenor to sing those notes in full-voice, tho' Adam frequently does. (Again, the tenor high C, or C5, is the benchmark for a "great" classical tenor to be able to sing in full-voice consistently. It is the last note in "Is Anybody Listening.") I would not say C5-G5 is where Adam's tone is "best." We are talking about the high notes in "Can't Let You Go." Granted, it is definitely where Adam is most impressive to most people because it is so unusual for a tenor to be able to sing those notes in full voice. But I don't think that is where his tone is "the best." I think that the most beautiful part of Adam's voice in terms of tone is around B3 to G4, right below middle C and up to the G above. It is the top of his natural chest voice range, and man, does it ring. In CTMBTM, it is the notes he sings on "kiss ME GOOD DAY. DARLING, MY DARLING, TIL ALL I CAN SAY." But, it is possible that the guy is using a different notation system reference, and for him, C5 is middle C on the piano. If so, then he and I are actually talking about the same part of Adam's range, just using different designations for the notes. I bet I have totally confused you by now, right? Here's a chart showing all the different notations. Doesn't clear things up at all, does it? www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/appendix/octaveregisters/octaveregisters.htmlI was not clear, but you got it. Once past A4, five steps above middle C on the piano, Adam cannot use his mixed voice to sing softly and tenderly. If he wants a delicate, light, ringing tone, he has to flip to head voice. Examples of this are in OOL "They say we'll rot in HELL, WELL I DON'T THINK we will" the first two times he sings it. Or in CTMBTM, the last chorus "kiss me good DAYYYYYYYYYYY AYYYYYYY"( up to the B4). Or, in By The Rules in the chorus, "BY THE RULES I PLAY, BY THE RULES I PLAY BY THE RULES I PLAY" Or, on Soaked, live, at the end of the word "new-OOOO" right before the dramatic pause. Adam's other choice past A4 is to sing with POWER, using his full-voice or mixed voice, or blended voice, whatever you want to call it. He then has at least two approaches in full-voice. He can sing "legitimately", like an opera singer. Examples are Soaked, live, "and you've HAD ENOUGH, SEARCHING FOR LOVE' Or, in Is Anybody Listening, "MY BODY TO THE EARTH, BUT STILL MY SPIRIT FLIES, MY SPIRIT FLIES!" and "DROWNING IN OUR TEARS". His other choice is is full-power with a more rock tone. It is slightly harsher, more piercing, with less of the low harmonic resonance and less vibrato. That is what he uses in WWFM in the original key. Or in OOL, the final chorus "HELL, WELL, I DON'T THINK WE WILL!" Or, in Another One Bites the Dust, the second verse when all of a sudden his voice just belts out. Would it help if I put the YTs for these songs within the post? I was trying not to make it too long. Have I clarified my thinking or just confused you more? |
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Albiku
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Post by Albiku on Jan 15, 2013 5:53:18 GMT -5
Or, in Another One Bites the Dust, the second verse when all of a sudden his voice just belts out. Butting in, but Another One Bites The Dust is one of my favourite Queenbert songs exactly because of that. He's singing low, and suddenly, bam! He starts belting out the words. It's like a shot of caffeine for me, seriously. Again, Cassie, I love your explanations. You have no idea how much I'm learning in here. :2tears: |
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Post by ayleim on Jan 15, 2013 10:57:40 GMT -5
Just poking my nose in to tell cassie that I absolutely adore your explanations! Superficially, I ... think... I understand what you're talking about, but since I'm not enough of a fan to have an eidetic memory of his performances, I'll need to find a spare hour or 2 somewhere to really rewatch the videos and pay attention to the parts you highlighted. And try to avoid getting stuck in the Adam-youtube vortex. ;D
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Albiku
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Post by Albiku on Jan 15, 2013 11:09:18 GMT -5
And try to avoid getting stuck in the Adam-youtube vortex. ;D Commonly known as the rabbit hole. ;D It's unavoidable, though. Before you even notice, you're down the rabbit hole and you can't get out of it until much later. |
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Post by cassie on Jan 15, 2013 14:08:42 GMT -5
Just poking my nose in to tell cassie that I absolutely adore your explanations! Superficially, I ... think... I understand what you're talking about, but since I'm not enough of a fan to have an eidetic memory of his performances, I'll need to find a spare hour or 2 somewhere to really rewatch the videos and pay attention to the parts you highlighted. And try to avoid getting stuck in the Adam-youtube vortex. ;D Here's a gorgeous version of OOL. He sings in such a light, pure chest voice thru the verses, it sounds the same as his head voice. This is one of the remarkable things about Adam's singing. He can sing in such a way that you cannot hear a discernible break between chest and head voice. The first and second time he sings "they say we'll rot in HELL", the"HELL" at 1.09 AND 2:19 is sung in his head voice, as is the plaintive wail at 2:33. On the final chorus, when he sings "HELL" at 3:11, he belts it in a full voice. Here is "Is Anybody Listening" where he sings full voice/mixed voice with power in a legitimate, almost operatic style at 3:04 SPIRIT FLIIIIIIIIIES. And also at 3:15 DROWNING IN OUR FEAR. and send someONE........ til the end of the song. 3:34. Here is Soaked, where he sings in that powerful full, operatic style voice thruout until 2:25. On the word "NEW". If you listen closely, you can hear the "flip" into head voice at the beginning of that word. TOMT is another perfect example of Adam seamlessly blending a light chest voice with a ringing head voice. The beginning is all chest voice. At 2:06 he goes up to the B4 for 'outSIDE', 'inSIDE', and 'CLOWN' in his head voice. Then, at 2:26, on "BREAKUP WITH YOU, BABY BABY BABY TAKE" that's the head voice, as is that stunning last note at D5. You can contast that head voice with the rock full voice in WLL. At 0:03 he belts out a B4 with both ring and power. He actually powers it out thru the whole song, not only those allegedly pesky B4s, but at 1:30 D5s and E5s. Can you hear the difference in tone quality from those D5/E5s and the D5 at the end of TOMT? Those are just a few examples to perhaps save you from falling completely down the rabbit hole. Of course, if you hear the difference in tone you will probably want to go to other videos to see if you can hear it there, too, right? Oops. I lied. Gotta hear My Conviction. That's an operatic head voice E5 at 0:47, and a fricken G5 in head voice at the very end. 1:28 and 1:45 on BTBW, Adam hits the same G5, but in full-voice. Freaky good. |
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Albiku
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Post by Albiku on Jan 15, 2013 15:13:09 GMT -5
I love you, Cassie. :2tears: :2tears: :2tears:
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Post by butterknife on Jan 15, 2013 17:06:56 GMT -5
I also love her :2tears: :2tears: :2tears: I think I may be panicking without a day reading her professional explanation RL hitting, BBL |
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Post by butterknife on Jan 15, 2013 18:58:58 GMT -5
Thank you Cassie. As for notation, he is using the 'Two-line octave' one and he wrote "the best tone in his voice is c2 - f2". Sorry I wasn't being clear enough. He was referring to Adam's high notes. He thinks that of all high notes that Adam can sing the best lies in between c2 - f2, especially e2. And he also thinks Adam is a world class singer. Well, he likes a vocalist with big voice who can sing very high but sing it really good. That's why he only mentioned his high notes. He also said Adam's lower registers though good were less impressive because of lacking enough resonance and power. But this was right after idol was over. After he got to listen to Runnin he was totally blown away but he thinks there are never in million years Adam is able to sing Runnin the studio version live (apparently he is questioning Adam's ability of producing that A2 with equal quality of the studio version, and also of singing from so low to F5 in one song live).
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The mixed voice thing. I got it now;). Thanks a lot. I guess it is just impossible for singers to sing lightly and softly in mixed voice ;D
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Done watching all example videos. Awesome examples.
In My Conviction, from 0:32-0:37 sec. What is that sound? Sounds like a female opera singer. How that he is able to sing female sound so legitimately?
The final G5 is mind-blowing. I think the whole My Conviction is just so mind-blowing. Never thought one could sing like that.
How about the D5? Speaking of tone, the D5 in Feeling Good and in WWTLF. So different.
Oh, and this one.
Bb5? I think it sounds cool.
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Again, Big Thanks!
Btw, TOMT. I remember hearing Kelly Clarkson's comments on this song in her interview. She said that Adam singing the whole song in FALSETTO was cool. ;D
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