FanOfTheMan
Member
Love Our Guy!
Posts: 4,205
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Post by FanOfTheMan on Oct 9, 2011 23:43:45 GMT -5
It's not a hard decision for me! I'm going with what Adam wants. He isn't happy with the release of this music and he doesn't want to support something that is taking advantage of his name- for a few dollars. The man made plenty of money in the last couple of years. Adam doesn't have to sacrafice his good name and his dignity for some pocket change. If I want any of these songs, I will steal them. I won't have any problem with cheating the unethical scumbags that put this album out there. ;D ;D Yeah Slappy, I don't really see the moral grey area. It not a hard decision ~for me anyway. Adam doesn't want them released. Good enough for me really. It's his brand. Adam told us in no uncertain terms that he is not happy with this release or the "folks who will do anything for a buck." No grey area for me. Adam's not pleased so I'm not buying. |
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Post by cassie on Oct 9, 2011 23:50:34 GMT -5
It's not a hard decision for me! I'm going with what Adam wants. He isn't happy with the release of this music and he doesn't want to support something that is taking advantage of his name- for a few dollars. The man made plenty of money in the last couple of years. Adam doesn't have to sacrafice his good name and his dignity for some pocket change. If I want any of these songs, I will steal them. I won't have any problem with cheating the unethical scumbags that put this album out there. ;D ;D Yeah Slappy, I don't really see the moral grey area. It not a hard decision ~for me anyway. Adam doesn't want them released. Good enough for me really. It's his brand. Why doesn't Adam want them released? Is it a money thing? Is it because the guy is trying to capitalize on Adam's fame and on the timing of Adam's releases? Is it because it will confuse consumers about who he currently is as an artist? Is it because, being a perfectionist, he doesn't think these early works are acceptable? He wasn't able to put the finishing touches on them? They are not ready for public consumption? Would he be okay with fans sharing stolen copies as long as the scumbag doesn't profit? Or would he prefer that we not listen to them at all? I don't have the answers to the questions. Only that they don't represent his current artistic vision, and they are unfinished. But, it seems from those two clues, that he would prefer that no one heard them. IF that is the case, then stealing them is violating his wishes as much as buying them. Let's say that ten years ago, you were an ugly duckling. Overweight, unkempt, out of shape, with no sense of fashion. You decided you could be much better. You worked out, lost weight, got some coaching about fashion and make up, took pride in your appearance. Now, you are kind of a knock-out, if you do say so yourself. Your old high school classmate starts posting pics on Facebook of you from back then. Maybe even does "before" and "after" shots, and compliments you on how good you look now. But, you don't want all her facebook friends, all your friends, all the friends of the friends to see how you looked ten years ago. You don't want people applauding how you have "changed." So, should your former classmate take down the photos, or keep showing them to everyone? Or would it be okay if she took them down off facebook, and only sent them to friends in DMs? I can see gray areas here on many different levels. Not preaching. Not saying what anyone should think or do. I know a passionate Adam fan who refuses to listen to the early tracks, even for free, even if they are posted all over YouTube, because she wants to respect Adam's wishes. I am not so loyal. I have listened, I confess. And if Adam said he didn't want anyone listening to Come To Me, Bend To Me because it is not his current artistic vision I would NOT delete it from my iPod. I would still play it for people when I try to show them how good he is. I'm just putting it out there. |
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Oct 9, 2011 23:54:44 GMT -5
SERIOUSLY UNPOPULAR OPINION FORTHCOMING
If ya don't want to hear it, scroll now.....
Last chance to scroll......
Ok, here goes. The person I feel most sorry for is Monte.
Hold on, if you haven't scrolled yet to this point, hear me out.
* Monte set up Citizen Vein, and went shopping for a singer. He chose Adam.
* Monte went through all the grunt work setting up studio time, wheeling and dealing to get things done on the cheap since Adam was broke, and he wasn't swimming in money either.
* He and Adam collaborated on songs, but then Adam went back to theater work (I believe he was still on the touring Wicked production at the time, maybe he was doing the Debbie Loves Dallas thing, I don't have the timeline memorized)
* Monte LOVED these songs. He was proud of them. He wanted them released but no label deal was forthcoming.
* Adam went on American Idol. Stuff happened.
* Adam hired Monte, who had once 'hired' him, as his bandmate and tour manager. The once-equal collaborators became more of an employer-employee relationship with Adam now in the upper position
* Adam moved away from the Rock sound that he and Monte had once jointly shared. Monte still loved the sound.
* Monte and Adam tried collaborating again on Adam's new album. It didn't work. Monte was shut out. Fans then go after his wife who [admittedly stupidly] vented her frustration about her husband's frustration on Twitter.
* Malcolm W. (who Monte thought was a friend), decided to finally release the Citizen Vein songs. However, NOT as "Citizen Vein" songs which would have given Adam and Monte equal footing. Instead, they are touted purely as Adam Lambert songs.
* Adam, who is putting out a pop album, is furious. Monte, who *is* a rock musician, who loves these songs, and is responsible for 50% of the writing credit and nearly all of the slog to get the music created in the first place, gets no title credit.
* A sizable proportion of Adam's fans blast Monte on Twitter and he gets angry, defensive, hurt, and more angry.
Yeah. Honestly, I don't feel that bad for Adam. He'll be ok. Malcolm W advertising tactics have been slimy. I understand the money he's put up and his legal rights, but I don't have sympathy for him.
Truly, the person I truly feel for, the one who I think deserves to be the most frustrated and upset in all this mess, is Monte.
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tigerlily
Member
Love and Light
Posts: 2,186
Location:
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Post by tigerlily on Oct 9, 2011 23:58:01 GMT -5
I have no idea why Adam does not want this album released, you would have to ask him.
What I do know is Adam isn't happy about it, that is enough for me.
I don't need to know all the reasons behind how he feels.
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Oct 9, 2011 23:58:22 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I *was* going to bed, but I couldn't sleep.
So I wrote that. ;D
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rad1109
Member
Posts: 1,074
Location:
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Post by rad1109 on Oct 10, 2011 0:02:38 GMT -5
Yeah Slappy, I don't really see the moral grey area. It not a hard decision ~for me anyway. Adam doesn't want them released. Good enough for me really. It's his brand. Why doesn't Adam want them released? Is it a money thing? Is it because the guy is trying to capitalize on Adam's fame and on the timing of Adam's releases? Is it because it will confuse consumers about who he currently is as an artist? Is it because, being a perfectionist, he doesn't think these early works are acceptable? He wasn't able to put the finishing touches on them? They are not ready for public consumption? Would he be okay with fans sharing stolen copies as long as the scumbag doesn't profit? Or would he prefer that we not listen to them at all? I don't have the answers to the questions. Only that they don't represent his current artistic vision, and they are unfinished. But, it seems from those two clues, that he would prefer that no one heard them. IF that is the case, then stealing them is violating his wishes as much as buying them. Let's say that ten years ago, you were an ugly duckling. Overweight, unkempt, out of shape, with no sense of fashion. You decided you could be much better. You worked out, lost weight, got some coaching about fashion and make up, took pride in your appearance. Now, you are kind of a knock-out, if you do say so yourself. Your old high school classmate starts posting pics on Facebook of you from back then. Maybe even does "before" and "after" shots, and compliments you on how good you look now. But, you don't want all her facebook friends, all your friends, all the friends of the friends to see how you looked ten years ago. You don't want people applauding how you have "changed." So, should your former classmate take down the photos, or keep showing them to everyone? Or would it be okay if she took them down off facebook, and only sent them to friends in DMs? I can see gray areas here on many different levels. Not preaching. Not saying what anyone should think or do. I know a passionate Adam fan who refuses to listen to the early tracks, even for free, even if they are posted all over YouTube, because she wants to respect Adam's wishes. I am not so loyal. I have listened, I confess. And if Adam said he didn't want anyone listening to Come To Me, Bend To Me because it is not his current artistic vision I would NOT delete it from my iPod. I would still play it for people when I try to show them how good he is. I'm just putting it out there. For me, it's a couple of things. First and foremost it is how hard he has worked to establish a brand. Last thing he needs is media critiquing shitty sounding cuts. He's putting his voice out there and here someone is pushing these very dated sounding tracks. He's working with some very current producers. It's just so Mickey mouse. Aside from all that it's the timing. Soooo shady to try to ride alone on his new promo. When you're trying to shine, would you really want someone to dredge out your amateur stuff? He's trying for the brass ring here - and in MO here is someone who has ANYTHING but his best interests at heart. I'll go back to my favorite saying (in RL too) Just because you can doesn't mean you should. |
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Post by chasingeden on Oct 10, 2011 0:03:11 GMT -5
Hoppers... sometimes it's good to get things off one's chest  Tigerlily... I think u mistook what Hoppers meant. |
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Post by HoppersSkippersMiners on Oct 10, 2011 0:03:42 GMT -5
HUH?? Lisa's little rant had nothing to do with fans going after her! That was NEVER the case! Did someone rewrite history? [puzzled] I think you might have read that wrong. Lisa was venting (rather transparently) about Adam. Things escalated when people started asking why she was metaphorically airing dirty laundry. The initial rant of course had nothing to do with fans. That came later. |
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Post by cassie on Oct 10, 2011 0:06:06 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I *was* going to bed, but I couldn't sleep. So I wrote that. ;D I think you make some very good points. Of course, they are assumptions based on known facts, but everyone is making assumptions based on statements, liner notes, tweets, lack of tweets, all kinds of insubstantial clues. Your assumptions make a lot of sense to me. So, if you are ducking behind a couch, I'll join you. |
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rad1109
Member
Posts: 1,074
Location:
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Post by rad1109 on Oct 10, 2011 0:07:58 GMT -5
SERIOUSLY UNPOPULAR OPINION FORTHCOMINGIf ya don't want to hear it, scroll now..... Last chance to scroll...... Ok, here goes. The person I feel most sorry for is Monte. Hold on, if you haven't scrolled yet to this point, hear me out. * Monte set up Citizen Vein, and went shopping for a singer. He chose Adam. * Monte went through all the grunt work setting up studio time, wheeling and dealing to get things done on the cheap since Adam was broke, and he wasn't swimming in money either. * He and Adam collaborated on songs, but then Adam went back to theater work (I believe he was still on the touring Wicked production at the time, maybe he was doing the Debbie Loves Dallas thing, I don't have the timeline memorized) * Monte LOVED these songs. He was proud of them. He wanted them released but no label deal was forthcoming. * Adam went on American Idol. Stuff happened. * Adam hired Monte, who had once 'hired' him, as his bandmate and tour manager. The once-equal collaborators became more of an employer-employee relationship with Adam now in the upper position * Adam moved away from the Rock sound that he and Monte had once jointly shared. Monte still loved the sound. * Monte and Adam tried collaborating again on Adam's new album. It didn't work. Monte was shut out. Fans then go after his wife who [admittedly stupidly] vented her frustration about her husband's frustration on Twitter. * Malcolm W. (who Monte thought was a friend), decided to finally release the Citizen Vein songs. However, NOT as "Citizen Vein" songs which would have given Adam and Monte equal footing. Instead, they are touted purely as Adam Lambert songs. * Adam, who is putting out a pop album, is furious. Monte, who *is* a rock musician, who loves these songs, and is responsible for 50% of the writing credit and nearly all of the slog to get the music created in the first place, gets no title credit. * A sizable proportion of Adam's fans blast Monte on Twitter and he gets angry, defensive, hurt, and more angry. Yeah. Honestly, I don't feel that bad for Adam. He'll be ok. Malcolm W advertising tactics have been slimy. I understand the money he's put up and his legal rights, but I don't have sympathy for him. Truly, the person I truly feel for, the one who I think deserves to be the most frustrated and upset in all this mess, is Monte. I get (most) of this...truly. I too think M got in a position and it got awkward. I do however ' blame' Lisa on Lisa. I sympathize with 6 mouths to feed & M wanting a career beyond backing band. But that's as far as I can go. |
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