The Moon Garden Lounge

Just for fun! What an imagination this guy had to set this up, and I love his glee!



Has anything really made you LAUGH this week? My best laugh of the week came during the Grammy show, believe it or not! My sister and I were watching and of course they announced Adam's category first and -- nothin'. Then Levine came out and started doing his thing.

My sister sat there for a minute and then said, "OH YEAH?", jumped up, poked out her butt, and started doing the the One More Night "arms" routine from our aerobics class, pretending to lift weights and all the other silly moves. She did it for the whole song.

It was so funny. Yesterday we went to class and when we did that song, we just laughed the whole time, then clapped when the teacher said we were skipping Bieber this week. I think she really wondered what had gotten into us!

What made you laugh this week, Adam-related or otherwise? BBL.

I probably should stay away from this because I've already got myself in trouble, and goodness knows I dont really want an answer, but here I go philosophers:

I have some thought brought on by Mahailias seemingly uncontradictory last post re the main threads discussion on Johnny's campy dancing style and mika's quoted post. I was apart of that original discussion and while I enjoyed the performance I was controversially supporting others who did not, whether that be due to simply a sylistic choice or because they are in a different place in the spectrum of acceptance. It was a complex thread with people from all different places, literally and figuratively, discussing a tough subject.

Mahailia, you wrote above:
"I think a lot of the opinions are valid, even if not popular. People feel what they feel, and are attracted to different styles in all kinds of things, not just dancing. Clothing, music genres, etc."

But you also applauded mikas sarcastic post that, while poingnant, simultaneously mocked people who disliked the performance by aligning them with racists. He also took a jab at those that supported the people in their unfinished evolving, as well as people who said they prefered masculine dancing. Mika you basically bunched us all up together with racists or lovers of racist.

Questions: Is there no room for grey in issues? Do you have to love camp to be considered on the "side" of gay rights? Do you have to be turned on by two men being flirty to be on the same side of gay rights? If you are turned off, can you not be on the same side of gay rights? Can you "hart alphamails" and be for gay rights? Do you have to have always been on the side of gay rights to be considered on the side of gay rights now? If you were born in a culture that ingrains homosexuality as politically and morally wrong so you are only on your way to relearning but not quite all the way there, can you not be considered on the side of gay rights? Can you support people who aren't totally enlightened and still be for gay rights? What's the best way to engage in conversation about gay rights and who should be encouraged to participate? Should people just be able to take a joke?

What are the limits of diversity? Is it all black and white?

kay, I actually still feel kind of shaken up by the discussion on the main thread about Johnny's dancing (full disclosure: I LOVED LOVED LOVED IT). If I hadn't been around Atop for 15 months already, I wouldn't have believed how quickly the issue evolved from an expression of unease with the campiness to a litmus test of loyalty and faith in which there was no middle ground to stand. There was anger and disillusionment and very strong intimations of hypocrisy and homophobia.

To me this conversation really went astray early on. No one in my family is involved in the fine arts, but I grew up on a steady diet of Cabaret and other Bob Fosse stuff because my mom and dad loved it, and that was what I saw in the GREAT reimagining of Fever, with Adam as the Emcee. (This is what I saw at the AMAs too and was always surprised it didn't get mentioned.) Maybe I'm all wet but that is what I see in Adam's choreography from Day 1.

What I have realized is that this kind of dancing still retains its power to shock when seen "out of context" of the theater. It is self-consciously vulgar and burlesque as well as sophisticated. It is full of tongue-in-cheek humor, too.

I think the issue of whether or not someone "got" the campy dancing, or "got" it but didn't like it, quickly became conflated with the idea that if you didn't care for the dancing, or didn't "get" the dancing, you just didn't like Johnny the person, or any gay people for that matter. Open and shut case.

kay, it seems to me that we are all shaped by the cultures in which we were raised. I was raised not to be shocked by campy dancing, and also raised where the only people who had tattoos were members of Mexican motorcycle gangs. It takes some powerful motivation to reject these touchstones. For many of us Adam has supplied that motivation.

It is easy for an artist to presume that the audience shares the attitudes that he desires to promote. For example, Adam thought that people would be in on the joke about the FYE cover and the AMA performance, and most people weren't because they had no context for it.

For me Trespassing as a work of art provides that backstory ... some of the songs like Shady and Kickin In take you inside his world, but others like Trespassing and Outlaws of Love tell you what it's like to be an outsider. Some songs like Broken English and Runnin and Take Back even show you values that are in conflict and what their roots are and about making bad decisions.

In other words, Adam is "showing his work" and trusting us to understand him and how he views his world. The more we watch and listen, the more we understand his viewpoint even if we don't always agree with that view.

To me it's about Adam's artistic choices, which are always interesting. It's been said that everything a gay person does publicly is political, and so this got to be about "gay rights" when to me, it should never have been about that. My 2 cents.

I'll throw my hat back into the ring since Kay and I seemed to be on the same side during that debate. I think somebody important in American history said something like-- I don't agree with what you said but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it.

I was pissed off because those alternative voices weren't just being ignored but actively mocked even when their remarks were put forth in a respectful tone. I could tell from the number of delurkers that many fans are not comfortable expressing minority views and that makes the posts on the main thread a bit monotonous and insular. It is similar to what happened this summer that led to the creation of the dark thread and the moon garden because in the opposite direction some people can't handle thoughts that aren't always colored by rose colored glasses.

What's interesting is that, because of Adam, this board is very protective of perceptions of gayness but much less protective when backup singers, musicians, or other dancers (see first Japan/China promos before Glam Nation) receive similar reports of "I didn't like it".

Dang it I'm not prosy enough for this thread. Oh and full warning. I fully intend to reopen the conversation soon with Kay about whether Adam should continue performances like the one in question for the good of his career.