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Post by girldrummer on Sept 11, 2017 19:25:39 GMT -5
Troye Sivan is imo fighting for radio play just like Adam is (and we should support him - not see him as a threat), and I remember Troye celebrating when reaching #23 on the Billboard top40. Radio play in Australia or South Africa or UK is certainly a different thing, and I do not follow his career enough to know the details here. As I mentioned yesterday, I think that being gay and non-US makes things a bit more palatable to the music biz here, though apparently not for long. It is here in the US where the general recommendation to artists still seems to be to stay closeted, no matter how much this is in today's world almost impossible to do, given that every person on the street has a camera at the ready and social media is omni-present. I just think that the option that stars had in the past to separate their private life from their public life has been taken by our much more invasive social media world. I don't think that this fact is sufficiently discussed, when people compare the past to the present. Adam has mentioned it a few times, but it rarely gets picked up as a relevant statement by the interviewers. Straight privilege is so deeply ingrained that I don't think folks even realize how important such a point is. And obviously, we don't want to times to roll back anyhow, so let's rather celebrate the success of those that are out as well as successful, Adam and Troye included. My impression is that Troye's success comes from streaming, from youtube videos, and a generally from a strong social media presence. Not from radio. I have not got any details to prove that Troye has received the same 'gay-delay' radio treatment that Adam has (the 'gay-delay' is what I have called when selective radio stations behave sluggish and do not ride the song wave up the charts, but only reluctantly plays the artist a little later when the song is already on its way back down, thereby giving the artist no chance to get high in the charts, but at the same time they are protecting their station from the critique of being homophobic, because their statistics do show the song as played. It's called politics and yes, it is ugly). Anyhow, the way Troye does it, is in my mind very much the way to go, but obviously he is much younger and therefore appeals more to the next generation. Adam paved the way in the US, but finds himself a tad lonely in his age group, because apparently the others who are in his age group have made different choices for themselves. Now Years and Years is a band and also came up through the UK charts and then other European charts, not the US. So, as far as I know, outside of Adam, the US radio charts have not produced another top40 artist from the US who is openly gay. Or am I missing someone? That fact alone should normally shake a few people up a bit, but clearly the smug world of radio will just keep enjoying their straight privilege and pretend that this is statistically normal. I don't think that folks generally understand how much headwind Adam has to fight against to win on radio, and so the only good news in this whole thing is, that radio is not the gatekeeper that it used to be. So, there are ways around it, and I think that Adam will have to use them too. And we need to support him, even if it leads away from trodden paths. I just hope WBM takes a strong song from Adam's next batch and promotes the hell out it. There has got to be a potential hit in there somewhere that they feel is worthy of the money and effort. The song doesn't have to appeal to tweens and teens. Real grown-ups like good music, too. Era 4 will be very interesting. The music industry game has changed so much. If you want to skip the rest of my post, go ahead. I wrote it first and kind of wandered with my thoughts. Craazyforadam, You make a lot of good points! The question to me is, what is a radio station's incentive for playing a certain song? It always comes down to getting listeners to listen to their station on a consistent basis and to gain listeners. A singer with a really explosive hit that really stands out does it a couple of ways. First, the song itself has to "feel like a hit" to the record producers. That's what they do. They recognize potential hits. So they take a gamble and try to grab the attention of the listeners by convincing the radio to play it. That's how new artists break through on radio. (You Tube, of course, is also a major path.) Second, an established singing star will get radio play due to their existing popularity. So their songs, good or not, will get played. And then, as we all have said, streaming is taking over from radio anyway, although radio is still important. Adam probably has a smaller "streaming" audience than a younger singer who has younger fans. Adam's songs are excellent, but not teen-agey. They're sophisticated, more adult. And yes, his songs move SO slowly up the charts and then stall and finally fade. We devoted Adam fans buy and stream and view are butts off, but his songs are just NOT HEARD OFTEN ENOUGH ON THE RADIO to get wide exposure among listeners who might very well like his songs if they only could hear them. It's a never-ending circle. You have to seek out a song in order to stream it. But you can stumble on a great song on the radio simply by turning on the radio. You don't have to be familiar with the artist or the song ahead of time. There are plenty of singers in Adam's age range who do very well. Other gay singers seem to do well, too, although I agree completely that there is a definite bias from radio. The Perfect Song transcends all these obstacles. The singer doesn't have to be cute or nice or even have a particularly good voice. It's that Perfect Song that opens the door first. Then listeners discover the person behind it. And with luck, they stay loyal and accept more music from that performer. Then loyalty sets in and that singer gets hit after hit. The singer really doesn't have to be much more than reasonably likable. Good looks help, but even that doesn't always matter. SS and Ed S. are not particularly good-looking but they are pleasant enough to be acceptable and their songs are widely acceptable. Seems that Adam does better overall in foreign markets. The US is really stuck in its own rather restrictive music world. And if you read this far, thanks!
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Post by melliemom on Sept 11, 2017 19:41:34 GMT -5
IMHO Televison is the way to get seen and heard.. That's how Adam got discovered that's where he shines.. Radio be damned.. Adam has gone from station to station over and over again.. the DJs have smiled said they loved him and then probably got orders to play others...Maybe if payola comes back and Warners is willing to pay .. more action.From what I have read the mob got Sinatra radio play and the rest is history...LOL
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Post by rihannsu on Sept 11, 2017 19:50:01 GMT -5
Troye Sivan is imo fighting for radio play just like Adam is (and we should support him - not see him as a threat), and I remember Troye celebrating when reaching #23 on the Billboard top40. Radio play in Australia or South Africa or UK is certainly a different thing, and I do not follow his career enough to know the details here. As I mentioned yesterday, I think that being gay and non-US makes things a bit more palatable to the music biz here, though apparently not for long. It is here in the US where the general recommendation to artists still seems to be to stay closeted, no matter how much this is in today's world almost impossible to do, given that every person on the street has a camera at the ready and social media is omni-present. I just think that the option that stars had in the past to separate their private life from their public life has been taken by our much more invasive social media world. I don't think that this fact is sufficiently discussed, when people compare the past to the present. Adam has mentioned it a few times, but it rarely gets picked up as a relevant statement by the interviewers. Straight privilege is so deeply ingrained that I don't think folks even realize how important such a point is. And obviously, we don't want to times to roll back anyhow, so let's rather celebrate the success of those that are out as well as successful, Adam and Troye included. My impression is that Troye's success comes from streaming, from youtube videos, and a generally from a strong social media presence. Not from radio. I have not got any details to prove that Troye has received the same 'gay-delay' radio treatment that Adam has (the 'gay-delay' is what I have called when selective radio stations behave sluggish and do not ride the song wave up the charts, but only reluctantly plays the artist a little later when the song is already on its way back down, thereby giving the artist no chance to get high in the charts, but at the same time they are protecting their station from the critique of being homophobic, because their statistics do show the song as played. It's called politics and yes, it is ugly). Anyhow, the way Troye does it, is in my mind very much the way to go, but obviously he is much younger and therefore appeals more to the next generation. Adam paved the way in the US, but finds himself a tad lonely in his age group, because apparently the others who are in his age group have made different choices for themselves. Now Years and Years is a band and also came up through the UK charts and then other European charts, not the US. So, as far as I know, outside of Adam, the US radio charts have not produced another top40 artist from the US who is openly gay. Or am I missing someone? That fact alone should normally shake a few people up a bit, but clearly the smug world of radio will just keep enjoying their straight privilege and pretend that this is statistically normal. I don't think that folks generally understand how much headwind Adam has to fight against to win on radio, and so the only good news in this whole thing is, that radio is not the gatekeeper that it used to be. So, there are ways around it, and I think that Adam will have to use them too. And we need to support him, even if it leads away from trodden paths. Ari Gold, the guy in that video from Dragcon who mentioned Adam is a gay singer who has spoken very honestly about the difficulties of being openly gay in the music industry here in America. I've run across interviews with him on several occasions where he has spoken of the difficulties he had in trying to break through. Justin Tranter was in Semi Precious Weapons and they came up through the clubs and even opened for Gaga on one of her tours but they reached a point where they were up against a wall and not getting any further. That was when Justin started writing for other people and has now become one of the big songwriters. He has also spoken about the push back from everyone in the industry from labels to managers and agents on being openly gay. The industry is very good at making sure they can't be proven to be homophobic or racist but that doesn't mean there aren't still plenty of obstacles. Institutional biases are there and will persist for a long time to come. Most people don't see the battles fought by artist to overcome these barriers. I remember back when MTV first started I think Michael Jackson was the only black artist whose videos got played. Bowie called them out on it and Michael threatened to pull his videos I think before they finally got past that barrier. You also have to remember that the majority of US radio is owned by very conservative forces. Adam speaks his mind on his sexuality as well as LGBTQ+ issues and politics so he is seen as controversial. Radio makes it's money on advertising and it is really only in the last few years that advertisers have been more supportive of LGBTQ+. For many many years companies caved to right wing boycott pressures and even without specific boycotts they would be leary of offending their conservative audiences. When Adam did the AMA performance ABC pulled him from GMA in response to a concerted complaint effort from right wing christian organizations. In many ways that branded him as far more shocking and controversial than he is in reality so he has had big hurdles to overcome with that image.
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Post by lurleene on Sept 11, 2017 19:51:22 GMT -5
Ed Sheeran was on Taylor Swifts album and on her big tour. Big help to break with her behind you. I read that the label pulled out all the stops to support Sam's debut and it continues. He got the every hour treatment on his new single. I doubt radio just gave him that without a push from his label. I don't think they broke big in the US by accident. With the bias in the US radio, Adam needs more than a great song. He needs big support and effort. WWFM went 2x platinum in the US because of big radio play. He has never had anything close to that amount of play in the US after that.
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3ku1
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Post by 3ku1 on Sept 11, 2017 20:00:00 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't think WBR did much for Adam, given GT was and is an ok song with streaming only... then they've selected the mediocre ALN which did nothing and killed the rest of the singles , specifically the brilliant TOH. Era 4 seems to be doing even worse for now, I'm not even sure there is a plan for it STILL! Whether this attitude is due to the gay thing or for some other reason is hard to say...they snatched him fast after RCA but ran out of steam pretty fast imo.... I don't agree. WBR reestablished Adams recording career. GT was not an okay song with streaming only. Over 250 million in streams. It was a top 20 US Pop Radio smash. Biggest Deep House US pop radio hit ever. And I think people focus on success in America all too much. Internationally it smashes. Europe did very well. In OZ went triple platnum. The problem was the second single. Was not strong enough singles. After the great success of GT. Toh should of been it. I just think you're downplaying the success of GT a bit. WBR did more for Adams career then RCA ever did, post FYE. I also think when it comes to Adam. And radio success. It's music. Simple, always has been. He other then GT and Wwfm. Always picked the wrong music. Runnin, Sleepwalker, Cuckoo, Shady etc. I'm not sure I understand you when you say "Era 4 is doing worse now". Talk about pre determining things. Let's just wait till Adam releases his new music. Tell me preempt anything.
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Post by melliemom on Sept 11, 2017 20:07:20 GMT -5
Frankly, I don't think WBR did much for Adam, given GT was and is an ok song with streaming only... then they've selected the mediocre ALN which did nothing and killed the rest of the singles , specifically the brilliant TOH. Era 4 seems to be doing even worse for now, I'm not even sure there is a plan for it STILL! Whether this attitude is due to the gay thing or for some other reason is hard to say...they snatched him fast after RCA but ran out of steam pretty fast imo.... I don't agree. WBR reestablished Adams recording career. GT was not an okay song with streaming only. Over 250 million in streams. It was a top 20 US Pop Radio smash. Biggest Deep House US pop radio hit ever. And I think people focus on success in America all too much. Internationally it smashes. Europe did very well. In OZ went triple platnum. The problem was the second single. Was not strong enough singles. After the great success of GT. Toh should of been it. I just think you're downplaying the success of GT a bit. WBR did more for Adams career then RCA ever did, post FYE. I also think when it comes to Adam. And radio success. It's music. Simple, always has been. He other then GT and Wwfm. Always picked the wrong music. Runnin, Sleepwalker, Cuckoo, Shady etc. I'm not sure I understand you when you say "Era 4 is doing worse now". Talk about pre determining things. Let's just wait till Adam releases his new music. Tell me preempt anything. Sorry ,If you heard much of the junk on radio you wouldn't think It's the music.. There is bigotry in the industry..plain and clear .. They walk away in the clear . It's time to hold the music industry accountable or things will never change.
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Post by melliemom on Sept 11, 2017 20:11:55 GMT -5
Ed Sheeran was on Taylor Swifts album and on her big tour. Big help to break with her behind you. I read that the label pulled out all the stops to support Sam's debut and it continues. He got the every hour treatment on his new single. I doubt radio just gave him that without a push from his label. I don't think they broke big by accident. With the bias in the US radio, Adam needs more than a great song. He needs big support and effort. IMHO the music industry has their talented gay token, Sam Smith.. I believe Adam had a shot at being the token before the AMA awards.. A role I think he would never cotton to. The music industry wants us to think they are diversified..oh yeah .
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Post by lurleene on Sept 11, 2017 20:16:55 GMT -5
Ed Sheeran was on Taylor Swifts album and on her big tour. Big help to break with her behind you. I read that the label pulled out all the stops to support Sam's debut and it continues. He got the every hour treatment on his new single. I doubt radio just gave him that without a push from his label. I don't think they broke big by accident. With the bias in the US radio, Adam needs more than a great song. He needs big support and effort. IMHO radio has their gay token, Sam Smith..Adam had a shot at being the token before the AMA awards.. Ed has the support of his label. Adam is on a different label so no reason they can't throw some support behind him. He can be the token gay for Warner if that is what it takes. But don't really want Adam to be a token or viewed as one. Just want him to get an equal chance in the US.
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Post by melliemom on Sept 11, 2017 20:18:51 GMT -5
IMHO radio has their gay token, Sam Smith..Adam had a shot at being the token before the AMA awards.. Ed has the support of his label. Adam is on a different label so no reason they can't throw some support behind him. He can be the token gay for Warner if that is what it takes. But don't really want Adam to be a token or viewed as one. Just want him to get an even chance in the US. Me too Adam isn't the token kind ,he's all inclusive
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Post by Craazyforadam on Sept 11, 2017 20:51:35 GMT -5
I don't think that radio is the medium that will give Adam a fair chance. First off, we the listeners are not the customers of radio, sorry girldrummer, just not true. The advertisers are the customers. We are the bait that are being offered to the advertisers, so they bite. The radio promoters go to advertisers with numbers. We have so many listeners and in this age bracket, go buy ads with us. Politics are played to keep advertisers happy, but good songs are needed to keep the public interested and listening. Promoters know that playing songs a lot makes people think they are great hits and makes request them more. If Adam had a homerun, a song that just could not get denied, he could perhaps pull it off. Adam tends to bring us interesting songs, I consider Ghosttown such a song, but I don't think that it was able to pull in the masses, especially given that it started slow, and people had to actually pay attention to catch on to it's rather complex content. In Europe that happened, in the US it never did, but also did not get enough play to ever find out whether it could have. It was not the song that got tons of people excited upon first listen.
I think that Adam is a theatrical and visual guy and has an all around performer talent. On idol, he was able to use these assets and overcome the factor of being different, unusual, easy to misread, or too left of center, etc. On radio alone, I don't see him break through, so I agree with Melliemom on that.
I think WBR is good for Adam, because they are more flexibile, i.e. presently give him time and freedom. If they see a hit, they will invest, imo. But they are not going to throw a million at a concept that does not have a chance. I can't fault them for that. They run a business.
Adam needs to find a different avenue than radio imo. There are many options available.
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